Garda Ombudsman offices bugged

My name is URL · 16-02-2014 08:20PM

Shady Tady wrote: »

Mick Clifford, say no more!

Meaning you have nothing more to say... if you cannot address the points raised, don't dismiss it as if it isn't pertinent.

tomwaterford · 16-02-2014 08:54PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I think the diversionary tactics are on the other side.

ST infiltrates GSOC and gets streams of information, without having to use any electronics. GSOC says we must be under surveillance so let's bring in GCHQ. ST then infiltrates GCHQ team and get their confidential report marked "Secret". A report which shows nothing concrete in the way of proof of surveillance.

ST publishes details of GCHQ report dressing it up as some type of Watergate scenario. This brings hordes of other journalists speculating wildly about everyone from the Minister down, about who knew what when.

Successful diversion by ST from the fact that the leaks were being engineered by themselves all along.

only 1 small problem-a very respected anti surveillance found beyond all reasonable possibility bugging had taken place

sure government TDs don't even believe what your suggesting

an elaborate hoax by the ST and they didn't bother releasing the story for months???:cool:

Banjo String · 16-02-2014 09:08PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I think the diversionary tactics are on the other side.

ST infiltrates GSOC and gets streams of information, without having to use any electronics. GSOC says we must be under surveillance so let's bring in GCHQ. ST then infiltrates GCHQ team and get their confidential report marked "Secret". A report which shows nothing concrete in the way of proof of surveillance.

ST publishes details of GCHQ report dressing it up as some type of Watergate scenario. This brings hordes of other journalists speculating wildly about everyone from the Minister down, about who knew what when.

Successful diversion by ST from the fact that the leaks were being engineered by themselves all along.

I'm just astonished Dxhound hasn't tried pinning the blame on Gerry Adams or S.F yet.

Deflections not going to work this time old bean.

Comments made today by various TDs from labour and FG prove this coalition is on very, very shaky ground.

KyussBishop · 16-02-2014 09:12PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

It's more than protests that are needed though, it's voting for people who are willing to put the require political changes into place to create the levels of transparency and checks and balances that are in place in the Nordic countries or New Zealand.

You won't find the people to vote for (or enough of them), who are willing to make the necessary changes to end corruption and help whistleblowers, until you first have the protest movements that educate the public about these problems, and creates a true public desire for change (rather than just the usual "sure it's always been like that" apathy).

Protests and political movements have to come first, then the politicians and political parties built from those protest/political movements principals.

Our vote at the ballot box counts for féck all, when many of the political parties out there are not significantly different to one another.
The population can't stuff a vote in a ballot box once every 4 years, and then remain absentee's/politically-inert for the next 4 years, avoiding their political responsibilities away from the ballot box.

Citizens political responsibilities are not limited to the ballot box, and the idea that your vote is the only 'correct' or purposeful way to be politically active, is a pretty damaging one that renders the population voluntarily politically powerless - the public needs to create the political movements and politicians that are supposed to lead us, otherwise we don't get principled politicians, just careerist arseholes looking to exploit/corrupt the political system, for their own gain (and the gain of those around them).

steddyeddy · 16-02-2014 10:45PM

So what's the gaurda line on whistleblowers? If I have information about a crime would I be a "disgusting" person by reporting it?

aloyisious · 17-02-2014 01:22AM

BurnsCarpenter wrote: »

I wouldn't agree that the term "whistleblower" is used contemptuously. It's surely just an accepted neutral term?

It's possible that Comm Callinan regret's his use of the word "disgust" two weeks ago referring to whistle-blowers, when he was well aware that a serving Gda Sgt was a whistleblower, and threatening to go to the courts to stop a House of the Oireachtas committee interviewing said Sgt. It's the way he used it as part of his response to media questions.

Re the question on whether I think this row between the MOJ & the Gda Comm on one side, the GSOC on the other has ended up in a PR fight on whom the public believe, so, in that manner, it has unfortunately ended up like a contest.

sopretty · 17-02-2014 01:28AM

aloyisious wrote: »

It's possible that Comm Callinan regret's his use of the word "disgust" two weeks ago referring to whistle-blowers, when he was well aware that a serving Gda Sgt was a whistleblower, and threatening to go to the courts to stop a House of the Oireachtas committee interviewing said Sgt. It's the way he used it as part of his response to media questions.

Re the question on whether I think this row between the MOJ & the Gda Comm on one side, the GSOC on the other has ended up in a PR fight on whom the public believe, so, in that manner, it has unfortunately ended up like a contest.

It's possible that I regret (I don't) telling the head bar-maid 15 years ago that she was an idiot. That said, I was a temporary bar maid. I was not the highest level member of the gardai, casting aspersions on people who shed light on wrong-doings within our justice system.

expectationlost · 17-02-2014 02:09AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Very rarely for protecting their sources. But mainly in the most recent episodes for phone tapping. And paying money to police officers and other public officials to corruptly give information. And they are mostly from the same stable as Mooney, although I see that Piers Morgan is now having his collar felt.

well he said it was dropped becuase it would reveal too much about covert police operations, (whether on or off the books) and presumably their supervision

but i wasn't impressed with his "i know what i know" line Im mean what are we supposed to do with that?

Ruu · 17-02-2014 05:17AM

who_ru wrote: »

Mods - i'm not sure if i'm allowed to request this but i'm going to anyway.

Please can everyone interested in the truth here, interested in civil liberties and accountability please place the following posters on their ignore list as their purpose here is entirely negative and to frustrate the discussion.

dxhound2005

Shady tady

i do this reluctantly but their contributions are farcical, and in my view ulterior.

who_ru

you are welcome to put whoever you like on ignore. everyone else can make up their own mind, most of us are grown ups here. not comfortable with your request. thanks. carry on.

Mod.

K-9 · 17-02-2014 05:18AM

Ex Ombudsman in the North Nuala O'Loan making a similar point in the Times I made earlier, police authorities will clash with members of police forces, it's to be expected, I'd be worrying if they didn't.

Garda Ombudsman powers should be strengthened urgently, says O’Loan

This whole saga also highlights the problems many warned about when GSOC was set up, it lacked teeth compared to other countries.

“The fact that the Garda Ombudsman does not have complete powers in a serious problem,” Northern Ireland’s first Police Ombudsman has said.
Nuala O’Loan said it was “a matter of urgency” that the legislation underpinning the Garda Siochana Ombudsman Commission ought to be reviewed to grant powers of investigation to senior officers including the Commissioner.
The State whould not have to confront this type of situation again, she said.

She further recommended that the position liaison officer, presently taken from the Garda, to act as a go-between between the Ombudsman and the Garda should be held by someone from outside the force.

Referring to her experiences as the first Police Ombudsman in Northern Ireland, Dame Nuala said tensions between the force and the oversight body were inevitable.
“We know that from the beginning, from the establishment of the Garda Ombudsman there have been tensions between the Garda and the Garda Ombudsman,” she told RTÉ Radio today.
“That’s not surprising. There were tensions between my office and the police in Northern Ireland and there are tensions across the world where you have independent investigators. There are certainly tensions in England and Wales where the independent police complaints commission operates.”

Also comments about how security tests like those GSOC carried out would be common enough, and yes, police forces and criminals would be likely suspects to bug investigating bodies like GSOC.

O'Loan is a highly respected figure and obviously an expert in these areas. She also has her critics from the more law and order type politicians, and Republican/Loyalist sides, usually a good sign somebody is talking sense!

jonsnow · 18-02-2014 06:57AM

Classic deflection attempts by the hang sandwhich brigade and their lapdogs. Noise, noise, noise, noise.Ultimately it harks back to who would have the likeliest motive means and expertise to bug the GSOC. Everything else is a distraction.

hatrickpatrick · 18-02-2014 12:08PM

Verrimus statement debunking the Indo's ridiculous attempts at killing the story this morning:
https://twitter.com/verrimus/status/435721370631413760

MilanPan!c · 18-02-2014 12:18PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Verrimus statement debunking the Indo's ridiculous attempts at killing the story this morning:
https://twitter.com/verrimus/status/435721370631413760

A story unto itself.

who_ru · 18-02-2014 12:37PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Verrimus statement debunking the Indo's ridiculous attempts at killing the story this morning:
https://twitter.com/verrimus/status/435721370631413760

A 10 year old would be embarrassed to put their name to that story but not Paul Williams.

Insomnia one of the anomalies? Mobile phones can create their own base stations? Unbelievable. Tom Clonan from the Irish times described journos like Williams as 'echo chambers for the establishment'.

aloyisious · 18-02-2014 01:23PM

There's one thing that's come out of this, a new buzz-word - "definitive" - for the politicians. The "Verrimus created the feedback they detected" story put's a new spin on feedback, LOL.

My name is URL · 18-02-2014 01:39PM

This is how I imagine the Garda Press Office looks right about now - http://i.imgur.com/Z9Za1zx.jpg

sopretty · 18-02-2014 01:52PM

GSOC have reiterated their stance that the 3 anomalies STILL cannot be explained.

MilanPan!c · 18-02-2014 03:22PM

aloyisious wrote: »

There's one thing that's come out of this, a new buzz-word - "definitive" - for the politicians. The "Verrimus created the feedback they detected" story put's a new spin on feedback, LOL.

Well, why not try it... they originally tried the, "someone in GSOC set up a spoof UK 3G tower to spy on... GSOC" approach and it didn't stick, so...

aloyisious · 18-02-2014 03:56PM

From: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-to-appoint-judge-to-investigate-gsoc-affair-1.1696014

Hopefully this story is correct.

mickdw · 18-02-2014 06:15PM

aloyisious wrote: »

From: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-to-appoint-judge-to-investigate-gsoc-affair-1.1696014

Hopefully this story is correct.

Ya its correct. Trouble is, this will make the story go away as nobody will comment on it while the investigation is ongoing.
Its also reported that shatter will be writing the terms of reference.

Santa Cruz · 18-02-2014 06:22PM

mickdw wrote: »

Ya its correct. Trouble is, this will make the story go away as nobody will comment on it while the investigation is ongoing.
Its also reported that shatter will be writing the terms of reference.

That's fine so. He's a solicitor so we can trust him to do it right.

renegademaster · 18-02-2014 07:03PM

Santa Cruz wrote: »

That's fine so. He's a solicitor so we can trust him to do it right.

never mind the fact the irish people still haven't shown they'll hold anybody to account if the truth be told or not, all we've managed to do so far is show that even in light of this latest twist we still do SFA about it so game on

Happyman42 · 18-02-2014 07:04PM

Tomorrow's Indo

My name is URL · 18-02-2014 07:26PM

Has anyone seen this yet?

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/02/18/garda-confidential-2/

Well worth reading in full.

Hootanany · 18-02-2014 08:18PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Has anyone seen this yet?

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/02/18/garda-confidential-2/

Well worth reading in full.

Daming evidence

who_ru · 18-02-2014 09:19PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Has anyone seen this yet?

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/02/18/garda-confidential-2/

Well worth reading in full.

Callinane is criminally corrupt, and allowed to remain in office by FG/LAB.

Shady Tady · 18-02-2014 09:26PM

who_ru wrote: »

Callinane is criminally corrupt, and allowed to remain in office by FG/LAB.

Careful there! don't see what you are on about, please elaborate?

WilyCoyote · 18-02-2014 09:29PM

The mob in Paris would not have put up with this. The moustache would be twitching as his head was positioned.

Vive la révolution!

downonthefarm · 18-02-2014 09:31PM

Paulie the hack on the radio today putting his spin on it.
Why is he only crawling from under his rock now?

renegademaster · 18-02-2014 09:37PM

downonthefarm wrote: »

Paulie the hack on the radio today putting his spin on it.
Why is he only crawling from under his rock now?

cos that's what happens to make us sick of the subject so we can all go back to sheep as quick as possible