170 years later and whats different?

Dawnnotloaded · 16-02-2014 03:14AM #1

I came across this earlier, A statement by Benjamin Disraeli on the 16th of February 1844, 170 years ago today. Thought I'd share it.

“Thus you have a starving population, an absentee aristocracy, and an alien Church, and in addition the weakest executive in the world. That is the Irish Question.”

It got me to thinking… how we’ve progressed, given that we are now poorer in real terms than our parents were, with no actual leadership from industry or commerce (the modern aristocracy), the church are suffering the worst hits they've ever seen and our political elite are virtually unsupported and powerless against anyone except those still paying PAYE! 170 years of progress?

Considering back then, the following year they encountered the famine of 1845-49, got me to thinking what's the next four years hold for us?

Boombastic · 16-02-2014 03:14AM

We have internet

Cedrus · 16-02-2014 03:16AM

Dawnnotloaded wrote: »

I came across this earlier, A statement by Benjamin Disraeli on the 16th of February 1844, 170 years ago today. Thought I'd share it.

“Thus you have a starving population, an absentee aristocracy, and an alien Church, and in addition the weakest executive in the world. That is the Irish Question.”

It got me to thinking… how we’ve progressed, given that we are now poorer in real terms than our parents were, with no actual leadership from industry or commerce (the modern aristocracy), the church are suffering the worst hits they've ever seen and our political elite are virtually unsupported and powerless against anyone except those still paying PAYE! 170 years of progress?

Considering back then, the following year they encountered the famine of 1845-49, got me to thinking what's the next four years hold for us?

?????????????????

Mr. McGreg · 16-02-2014 03:17AM

Dawnnotloaded wrote: »

I came across this earlier, A statement by Benjamin Disraeli on the 16th of February 1844, 170 years ago today. Thought I'd share it.

“Thus you have a starving population, an absentee aristocracy, and an alien Church, and in addition the weakest executive in the world. That is the Irish Question.”

It got me to thinking… how we’ve progressed, given that we are now poorer in real terms than our parents were, with no actual leadership from industry or commerce (the modern aristocracy), the church are suffering the worst hits they've ever seen and our political elite are virtually unsupported and powerless against anyone except those still paying PAYE! 170 years of progress?

Considering back then, the following year they encountered the famine of 1845-49, got me to thinking what's the next four years hold for us?

I'd say my parents would have something to say about that!!

J_E · 16-02-2014 03:18AM

Dawnnotloaded wrote: »

It got me to thinking… how we’ve progressed, given that we are now poorer in real terms than our parents were

Most definitely not.

TheShizz · 16-02-2014 03:19AM

Are we still starving? I just had a pizza and the jalopenos will soon prompt me to sh*t most of it out. Our ancestors could have only dreamed of this scenario way back when.

Boombastic · 16-02-2014 03:23AM

Mr. McGreg wrote: »

I'd say my parents would have something to say about that!!

My parents walked 12 miles to school, barefoot and up hill both ways. They also had to drink out of jamjars borrowed from the neighbours.

Geuze · 16-02-2014 03:23AM

In some senses we are poorer than our parents.

In 1980 (approx) my father, aged 35 approx, on one wage, could buy a 4-bed det house on 0.25 acre. This is in a small provincial town.

That same house would now ask 250k.

Could a typical 35yo now, one-earner, with a wife + 3 kids, buy a 250k detached house????

looking_around · 16-02-2014 03:26AM

we're not starving.
poverty is now based on how materialistic you can be.
We have a pretty health care option..
We have welfare & pensions.

You actually think, things haven't changed? 0o

Dawnnotloaded · 16-02-2014 03:34AM

Wow, such a quick response.

Granted, my statement of real terms are based on personal experiences... I can't determine that for everyone. I think the point I was making, was made very well by Geuze, my Mother was able to bring us up whilst only my father had to work at a modest job. His wage provided a good enough lifestyle for us. I was emotionally better off given that I was raised by my Mother and not a creche. I'm not measuring wealth materialistically.

But that is just one point on a list?

wonderfullife · 16-02-2014 03:43AM

For a start back then you had intelligent politicians with strong convcitions, ideology and a sense of direction, the likes of Disraeli, Charles Stewart Parnell....

we're left with Enda Kenny and Joan Burton...

We've infinite more advantages than that generation and if we're messing them up it's probably partly down to the fact we tend to elect centric politicians with no real sense of national ambition whose main goal is to be re-elected, rather than actually improve our country.

the_syco · 16-02-2014 03:50AM

Back then you had people with great idea but no power.

Now you still have people with great ideas with no power.

The only difference is that those with power now have to try to help everyone.

stmol32 · 16-02-2014 03:51AM

Boombastic wrote: »

.,,,, They also had to drink out of jamjars borrowed from the neighbours.

Your parents drank Jam!!! How does that quench a thirst?

Also a question for the OP, where your parents alive in the time of D'isreali? You must be a hundred and twenty years old at least.

Mr. McGreg · 16-02-2014 03:51AM

Boombastic wrote: »

My parents walked 12 miles to school, barefoot and up hill both ways. They also had to drink out of jamjars borrowed from the neighbours.

Hipsters love to drink out of jamjars these days, but essentially that's neither here nor there

Boombastic · 16-02-2014 03:53AM

stmol32 wrote: »

Your parents drank Jam!!! How does that quench a thirst?

Also a question for the OP, where your parents alive in the time of D'isreali? You must be a hundred and twenty years old at least.

No, no there was no jam, just the jars

Mr. McGreg wrote: »

Hipsters love to drink out of jamjars these days, but essentially that's neither here nor there

My parents, the original hipsters :eek:

TheShizz · 16-02-2014 03:54AM

Boombastic wrote: »

My parents walked 12 miles to school, barefoot and up hill both ways. They also had to drink out of jamjars borrowed from the neighbours.

jank · 16-02-2014 03:59AM

People need their heads examined if they don't think that life is better in Ireland now than 170 , 100 or even 40 years ago. Does this even have to be a discussion or just typical Irish fatalism and negativity.

Dawnnotloaded · 16-02-2014 04:07AM

It's an observation of a political speech of the time.

Today we have daily repossessions, more people living homless than 10 years ago, highest unemployment in years, highest emmigration in years. Local industry and commerce is struggling despite popular news bites. The church is more or less gone as an identifiable power. It's an observation of a parallel. I'm not in any way suggesting that we got back 170 years.

I'm not being negative, just pragmatic and realistic. I'm still here and do want to make things better for the future. But I do believe in learning from the past. If things aren't acted on, then they are not leassons, they are just lost memories.

looking_around · 16-02-2014 04:11AM

Dawnnotloaded wrote: »

Wow, such a quick response.

Granted, my statement of real terms are based on personal experiences... I can't determine that for everyone. I think the point I was making, was made very well by Geuze, my Mother was able to bring us up whilst only my father had to work at a modest job. His wage provided a good enough lifestyle for us. I was emotionally better off given that I was raised by my Mother and not a creche. I'm not measuring wealth materialistically.

But that is just one point on a list?

There's different stressors and different indicators of poverty than there was then.
People also have more rights now.(though we prefer to feel "it's all being stripped away".)

Point being, would you really want to live in Ireland 170 years ago?
__
Families can still raise children with one parent staying home. Many do(it's now thankfully not just women who end up as the stay at home parent.)
Those that have both working, is often because both want to work. Creche costs are expensive, one wage is generally all or mostly going towards creche.
Or they want their holidays abroad. (as if thats necessary for a good refreshing/relaxing/fun break). Or the latest console/car/games/tech etc.

This a choice, I'm not sure it's the right one, tbh though.

I think tech has brought equally alot of positives and negatives. (but I guess thats a different discussions.)
bottomline, things are better now than they were 170 years ago, we'll they continue that way? ..I can't say.

But I ask would you really want to live here 170 years ago?

I wouldn't. Though there's alot I'd like. That society, is not one I'd want to go back to.

Irish Guitarist · 16-02-2014 04:24AM

My parents were born in 1932 and 1933. I'm certainly not poorer than they were.

We just have more things we think we need now. Years ago your primary concern was having a roof over your head and enough food to eat. Now people say things like "I couldn't live without my mobile phone" or buy a new car every couple of years. If people still survived on the bare necessities there would be less debt.

I remember when I was about nine years old I went to visit my granny in the nursing home and I brought a pocket calculator with me to play with. She couldn't believe that you could do sums on this little box. I don't know what she'd think if she could see the laptop I'm typing this on. Even at the time I showed her the calculator there was already far more advanced inventions around but she hadn't seen the outside world in years.

Dawnnotloaded · 16-02-2014 04:27AM

I have no desire to go back in time, unless its to give myself the winning lotto numbers. Also I have no gender issues towards what parent raises their child. I do believe its a team effort.

However I understand were you are coming from with the childcare vrs work situation. If I can expand on that, I have friends that as you've explained work solely to pay for childcare, but they do this in fear of falling out of the working system.

Returning to work after parenting for a number of years is very difficult and will almost always result in a loss of overall career prospects. What I'm trying to say is that it is not for the current desire for holidays or extras, but more for the fear of future financial constraints that some people give up the opportunity to raise their children by staying at work.

I have no doubt on the factor that working has on mental independance and well being. I've been at home all day with kids, and love them dearly, but I do believe you need the adult interaction that work brings for sanity.

Boombastic · 16-02-2014 04:29AM

TheShizz wrote: »

things were a lot tougher then, kids these days don't know how easy they have it

KyussBishop · 16-02-2014 04:47AM

Comparing as to whether, overall, life was better/worse in the past is never going to be a valid comparison, because for starters technology is always improving, and our technological improvement is built upon literally every single technological improvement in past history.

So by that standard alone, the future is always getting better, and the knock-on effects of technological improvement affect everyone.

So really, you've got to measure whether specific things are getting better/worse, and the entire point isn't whether things are getting better/worse anyway, it's whether or not things can be better, and if things can be better, then you should never stop striving for better/more-fair standards.

If you start thinking "ok, looking at 'x', things are better than they've ever been before - no need to improve things anymore" - then that is going to lead to eroding standards, and is the kind of thinking that can potentially lead to 'a race to the bottom' in standards.

Never stop demanding better standards.

banquo · 16-02-2014 05:07AM

Dentistry.

TheShizz · 16-02-2014 05:29AM

Boombastic wrote: »

things were a lot tougher then, kids these days don't know how easy they have it

It was the fact your parents had to walk uphill to and from school which puzzled me.

coolbeans · 16-02-2014 05:46AM

Dawnnotloaded wrote: »

I came across this earlier, A statement by Benjamin Disraeli on the 16th of February 1844, 170 years ago today. Thought I'd share it.

“Thus you have a starving population, an absentee aristocracy, and an alien Church, and in addition the weakest executive in the world. That is the Irish Question.”

It got me to thinking… how we’ve progressed, given that we are now poorer in real terms than our parents were, with no actual leadership from industry or commerce (the modern aristocracy), the church are suffering the worst hits they've ever seen and our political elite are virtually unsupported and powerless against anyone except those still paying PAYE! 170 years of progress?

Considering back then, the following year they encountered the famine of 1845-49, got me to thinking what's the next four years hold for us?

All this is a bit high brow for After Hours one would've thought. Just watch it degenerate into **** slinging OP, any minute now...

Disraeli indeed, pfft!!

sawdoubters · 16-02-2014 05:48AM

free love

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 16-02-2014 05:56AM

Geuze wrote: »

In some senses we are poorer than our parents.

In 1980 (approx) my father, aged 35 approx, on one wage, could buy a 4-bed det house on 0.25 acre. This is in a small provincial town.

That same house would now ask 250k.

Could a typical 35yo now, one-earner, with a wife + 3 kids, buy a 250k detached house????

When you say "buy" do you mean buy or get a mortgage for? In any case, I don't think housing prices are a fair indication of progress.

We want more. And we can not have more. Therefore, we view what we do not have and think we are poorer.

MadsL · 16-02-2014 08:23AM

What's changed? Well Opium, Cocaine and Cannabis are illegal for one...

everdead.ie · 16-02-2014 08:48AM

We are worse off then we were at the end of a boom that's not surprising but I don't think we are worse off then we were in the last recession(80s).

Now there are new nessecities that never existed before mobiles, cable/sky tv, internet.

We are in awful lot of a better situation then we were and we will come back stronger again it just takes a bit of time.

Arthur Beesley · 16-02-2014 09:36AM

What a load of ****e, OP.

Did they have social welfare and rent allowance and children's allowance and all the other welfare schemes back then?

No, they had the poorhouse and they took your children off you of you couldn't afford to feed and clothe them.

You'd be lucky to be able to read and write back then, instead of having a high chance of continuing to third level education now.

170 years later and whats different?

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