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Renting is dead money

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Fudge You wrote: »
    Wow wow wow.
    I love being in the "I told ya so" crowd. haha...
    Well I didn't say you were - your posts aren't particularly like that on this thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,913 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    alias06 wrote: »
    If you have the money to do this and it makes sense then go for it. But there is absolutely no point worrying about 30 years time. With the way the world is going with climate change, economic instability and over population we just have no idea what property will be worth in 30 years time at which point you'll probably have more serious things to worry about like your physical health. You can't take it with you anyway.
    Very true, the sale of my mortgage free property in hopefully 40/50 years time will contribute handsomely to nursing home care if I need it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Property cycles are a regrettable fact of life. Some Irish people seem to be under the illusion that just because there's been one that there will never be another and houses will eventually cost the same as a second hand car.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Do people renting really want to be paying rent when they are retired? It's a lot to take out of your pension, especially if you've only got a state pension .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 206 ✭✭dinnyirwin


    anncoates wrote: »
    Property cycles are a regrettable fact of life. Some Irish people seem to be under the illusion that just because there's been one that there will never be another and houses will eventually cost the same as a second hand car.

    They are busy in the "Glut of repossessions" thread at the moment.
    They will be here shortly.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭StinkyMunkey


    Paying rent is great for paying other peoples mortgage. It is dead money, I'd rather leave my childern a legacy. All paying rent does is improve the lifestyle and bank account of the landlord. I bought a house over ten years ago, best thing I ever did, I know people paying rent 20 years and regret every cent of it, they would have nearly owned a property by now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 206 ✭✭dinnyirwin


    Do people renting really want to be paying rent when they are retired? It's a lot to take out of your pension, especially if you've only got a state pension .

    Not wanting to live on just the state pension in a dingy council flat like my grandfather had to, was the main factor in my making sure I had my house bought and paid for by retirement. But alternatively if you could provide for your rent in your old age in a pension it would be just as good.

    When you hit 40, if you plan to get a mortgage you have to act fast.
    Each year after that age it becomes a hell of a lot harder to get a mortgage than in your thirties.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 206 ✭✭dinnyirwin


    Paying rent is great for paying other peoples mortgage. It is dead money, I'd rather leave my childern a legacy. All paying rent does is improve the lifestyle and bank account of the landlord. I bought a house over ten years ago, best thing I ever did, I know people paying rent 20 years and regret every cent of it, they would have nearly owned a property by now.

    While I own rental properties and the major factor is that after 25 years of someone else paying rent I will own them outright. It doesnt improve my lifestyle all that much until they are paid off. I provide a service to people who need that service. Both sides are happy with the arrangement or else we wouldnt be doing business.
    Renting just suits some people, but not others. Its a pity that people get so polarized though. Some people will pay for 20 years and be happy that they got the service they paid for, while others will be very sore that they paid the service provider.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    Buying a house now is quite affordable. My mortgage is less than the equivalent rent for renting my house. I would have to pay rent anyhow. Pay mortgage and own house after 20 years. Pay the same rent (which in time will most likely go up), have paid twice as much over next 40-45 years (touch wood with health and all that), have nothing at end but have paid twice as much for it.

    Renting might make sense dependent on the market, but I think right now buying makes more sense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭Thecameraman


    Just like to add my point of view in here, at the moment I'm trying to buy a house the mortage process is a nightmare one little thing could get you refused and you have to wait another 6 months to a year. When we go to look at house there is loads of cash buyer trying to buy the house to rent because rent is so good these days. My point is it a long and hard process these days to 1. Get a mortage and 2. Find a house you like and could live in. The rent markets has really turned In the last 6 months and some day most of ireland will be renting like the other big countrys and the investor have coped this on so dead money or not it a reality that most young people these days have to rent.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭Chazz Michael Michaels


    Do people renting really want to be paying rent when they are retired? It's a lot to take out of your pension, especially if you've only got a state pension .

    78% of Switzerland rents. Old and young. I reckon they're doing ok. If laws were adjusted to protect long term leasing, it would be fine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    Peoples memories are short. What suprised me most during the temporary boom, was how acceptable it became to be a landlord in Ieland.
    In the past the Irish people devoloped ways of dealing with landlords, leading to a high level of home ownership. I fear those days will return again.


  • Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    78% of Switzerland rents. Old and young. I reckon they're doing ok. If laws were adjusted to protect long term leasing, it would be fine.

    I can't see the need for it to be honest. I don't know why someone would want to rent a place long term instead of buying an equivalent property. There is merit to people renting who could need to move in 6 months or a year but someone signing a 10 year lease for instance I just think would be madness.

    Then on the other side I don't see many landlords wanting their property tied up in long term leases thus preventing them from moving in themselves, other family members moving in or stopping them selling the property.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 206 ✭✭dinnyirwin


    I can't see the need for it to be honest. I don't know why someone would want to rent a place long term instead of buying an equivalent property. There is merit to people renting who could need to move in 6 months or a year but someone signing a 10 year lease for instance I just think would be madness.

    Then on the other side I don't see many landlords wanting their property tied up in long term leases thus preventing them from moving in themselves, other family members moving in or stopping them selling the property.

    I would love to rent on a long term lease, but unfortunately a long term lease means absolutely nothing to a tenant. Tenants can just not pay the last months rent and off they go. Nothing at all a landlord can do about it.
    The lease would have to be enforceable for both sides to make it work.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭stimpson


    Fudge You wrote: »
    Great comeback. Read your post again. You have a chip on your shoulder.

    Calmer than you are.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    I think people should speak to some of the workers who were involved in the construction of property during the boom, before they decide to buy a house.

    Builders got around this problem by hiring staff, whose english was as poor as their blocklaying.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,093 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Rents are too close to mortgage rates so long term renting is always going to be seen as a bad option in this country not to mention some landlords are clueless. The older you get the less you are willing to put up with some of the downsides too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭holystungun9


    Well rent is so high at the moment, that sometimes it works out as better value to purchase a house.

    No commitment issues I take it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭Chazz Michael Michaels


    I can't see the need for it to be honest. I don't know why someone would want to rent a place long term instead of buying an equivalent property. There is merit to people renting who could need to move in 6 months or a year but someone signing a 10 year lease for instance I just think would be madness.

    Then on the other side I don't see many landlords wanting their property tied up in long term leases thus preventing them from moving in themselves, other family members moving in or stopping them selling the property.

    Why do the Swiss do it in droves, then? Are they insane?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,153 ✭✭✭everdead.ie


    I don't understand this one size fits all that is prevelant in Irish society.

    Buying suits an awful lot of people especially outside of Dublin.

    It sure as hell doesn't suit me as I intend to move in the next few years.

    There is also the fact people seem to be ignoring which is that you can't get a rent controlled long term lease in Ireland so you can pretty much look forward to increases in your rent every damn year.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    Why do the Swiss do it in droves, then? Are they insane?

    Property is considerably more expensive to buy in Switzerland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭Chazz Michael Michaels


    dirtyden wrote: »
    Property is considerably more expensive to buy in Switzerland.

    Expand.

    Their salaries are also much higher, by the way.

    Edit. Here we go, use this chart to filter for Ireland and Switzerland, using house price by income. Not much difference.

    http://infographics.economist.com/2014/hpi0114/?n=21540328&w=595


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    Expand.

    Their salaries are also much higher, by the way.

    I have a friend living in Geneva, he works for a Swiss chemical company.

    He has a beautiful and large apartment which he rents as it would cost him almost a million to buy. He would not get that mortgage off a swiss bank.

    Property development and property ownership is different to Ireland, development for residential living is more expensive.

    His salary is better (about a third onto the equivalent here), you are correct there. The cost of living is also considerably more.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭Chazz Michael Michaels


    dirtyden wrote: »
    I have a friend living in Grenoble, he works for a Swiss chemical company.

    He has a beautiful and large apartment which he rents as it would cost him almost a million to buy. He would not get that mortgage off a swiss bank.

    Property development and property ownership is different to Ireland, development for residential living is more expensive.

    His salary is better (about a third onto the equivalent here), you are correct there. The cost of living is also considerably more.

    See above. Stats trump anecdotes.


  • Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why do the Swiss do it in droves, then? Are they insane?

    I don't know much about the Swiss property market but if people are renting long term instead of buying where rental prices and mortgage repayments are broadly similar then yes I think they are wasting money and I don't see the sense in it at all.

    If as other have suggested there is a vast difference between rent and a mortgage repayment on a similar property then that's a different story.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭Chazz Michael Michaels


    I don't know much about the Swiss property market but if people are renting long term instead of buying where rental prices and mortgage repayments are broadly similar then yes I think they are wasting money and I don't see the sense in it at all.

    If as other have suggested there is a vast difference between rent and a mortgage repayment on a similar property then that's a different story.

    See my post with the link, above.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    See above. Stats trump anecdotes.

    I will go on what I hear from people who live there. Property in many places in Swizerland is very expensive.

    Stats quoting averages can be very misleading and people who don't really understand stats generally misquote their intent.

    One would have to consider population density and median salaries rather than just using a stand alone figure without any further considerations.


  • Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    See my post with the link, above.

    Well if they are choosing to rent long term rather than buy where mortgage repayments would be similar to rent then yes I think they are insane.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭Chazz Michael Michaels


    dirtyden wrote: »
    I will go on what I hear from people who live there. Property in many places in Swizerland is very expensive.

    Stats quoting averages can be very misleading and people who don't really understand stats generally misquote their intent.

    One would have to consider population density and median salaries rather than just using a stand alone figure without any further considerations.

    As a quantitative analyst I agree, and using anecdotes with a sample of one is laughable. I can't take it seriously.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭Chazz Michael Michaels


    Well if they are choosing to rent long term rather than buy where mortgage repayments would be similar to rent then yes I think they are insane.

    Good.


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