Garda Ombudsman offices bugged

Augmerson · 11-02-2014 10:42PM

What the **** is going on.

Red Pepper · 11-02-2014 10:49PM

I wonder what spooked the Ombudsman to initiate a security check from a firm outside Ireland. That's the key here. My hunch is that senior members of the Gardaí knew too much about confidential investigations.

Phoebas · 11-02-2014 10:53PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

I wonder what spooked the Ombudsman to initiate a security check from a firm outside Ireland. That's the key here. My hunch is that senior members of the Gardaí knew too much about confidential investigations.

Here's the explanation that GSOC gave to the Minister:

Alan Shatter wrote:

I am informed that there was no specific concern which caused GSOC to organise the security sweep

Red Pepper · 11-02-2014 10:56PM

Phoebas wrote: »

Here's the explanation that GSOC gave to the Minister:

Utter nonsense, did you see the reaction the same question got on Prime Time? He is hardly going to blurt out something about a senior Garda that would get him into trouble unless he could substantiate it with proof - he was looking for proof as part of the bug sweep.

Peel the onion.

Arthur Beesley · 11-02-2014 10:56PM

Pretty clear that the GSOC cannot be trusted.

Red Pepper · 11-02-2014 10:58PM

Note to self: Scan your laptop for bugs after replying to any posts by Phoebe

Red Pepper · 11-02-2014 10:59PM

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Pretty clear that the GSOC cannot be trusted.

Au contraire, I feel his words are being twisted as part of the cover-up.
Politicians more afraid of senior Gardaí than GSOC.

Phoebas · 11-02-2014 10:59PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

Utter nonsense, did you see the reaction the same question got on Prime Time? He is hardly going to blurt out something about a senior Garda that would get him into trouble unless he could substantiate it with proof - he was looking for proof as part of the bug sweep.

Peel the onion.

So you think he was lying to the Minister and lying on Prime Time?
And yet you still think he can be trusted!

tayto lover · 11-02-2014 11:00PM

A big big bottle of smoke.

Phoebas · 11-02-2014 11:01PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

Note to self: Scan your laptop for bugs after replying to any posts by Phoebe

CT forum >>>>

No wait! After Hours has turned into the CT forum too.

Red Pepper · 11-02-2014 11:03PM

Phoebas wrote: »

So you think he was lying to the Minister and lying on Prime Time?

Did you watch it? He said that the security firm reported that one of the vulnerabilities had almost 0% chance of being accidental but he did say that he couldn't prove that it was actually used.

Simple example, I could leak my company's conference bridge details to you today but I would not know if you ever listened in.

To answer your followup Q, I trust nobody now. They are all compromised. The country is as corrupt as ever.

kippy · 11-02-2014 11:05PM

This whole thing stinks of something, but of what I don't know.......
Was it an attempt to discredit the GSOC - who are trying to get more powers to investigate the Gardai?
Was it an attempt to discredit the Gardai from the GSOC side?
Was an actual attempt made to compromise an investigation of the GSOC?
Was this whole thing a smoke screen to take the media/public focus of something else that is happening at the moment..........

Either way, I don't believe GSOC did anything untoward if they did suspect they were being bugged they were well within their rights to go outside the state for advice, and Shatters and other politicians meddling in it's affairs now, calling for heads etc is not at all the relationship the state should have with such a body.
As for the senior Gardai's comments, they are a disgrace if you ask me, and follow on directly from the disgraceful attitude he appears to have towards whistleblowers.

Arthur Beesley · 11-02-2014 11:07PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

Au contraire, I feel his words are being twisted as part of the cover-up.
Politicians more afraid of senior Gardaí than GSOC.

Of course you do.

Phoebas · 11-02-2014 11:09PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

Did you watch it? He said that the security firm reported that one of the vulnerabilities had almost 0% chance of being accidental but he did say that he couldn't prove that it was actually used.

I could leak my company's conference bridge details to you today but I would not know if you ever listened in.

I don't doubt that something was going on, but you must admit that its starting to look more like the common kind of attacks that organisations are subjected to every day of the week than the 'government level' attack that some people were convinced of just yesterday.

Busted Flat. · 11-02-2014 11:15PM

The way things are going this government is going to equal the 73 coalition, or maybe excel.

Red Pepper · 11-02-2014 11:15PM

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Of course you do.

I read some of your other contributions on this thread and in summary you have added very little with the exception of proving you're a bit of a muppet.

Yes Mods I know, infraction etc etc, attack the post not the poster...its ok, I hold myself in contempt but I couldn't resist.

kippy · 11-02-2014 11:17PM

Phoebas wrote: »

I don't doubt that something was going on, but you must admit that its starting to look more like the common kind of attacks that organisations are subjected to every day of the week than the 'government level' attack that some people were convinced of just yesterday.

The problem is, it could well have been a "government level" operation.
How are we to know exactly what went on.
Shatter circled the wagons in the past 24 hours, no doubt smacked some heads together and we're now being treated like mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed the brownstuff)
Those involved are hoping to sweep the whole thing under the carpet although there are now serious calls for the GSOC to be fired essentially.

Somebody somewhere is orchestrating what is going on here and I personally have no trust in two sides of this three sided argument, mainly due to some past lessons history has taught us.

tayto lover · 11-02-2014 11:17PM

Prime Time really cleared up all the questions I had

mickdw · 11-02-2014 11:19PM

Phoebas wrote: »

I don't doubt that something was going on, but you must admit that its starting to look more like the common kind of attacks that organisations are subjected to every day of the week than the 'government level' attack that some people were convinced of just yesterday.

If that is the case, what exactly have gsoc done wrong. Sweep carried out. Nothing of significance to report any further.

Red Pepper · 11-02-2014 11:20PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Prime Time really cleared up all the questions I had

They are hardly going to cover the history of potato crisps...

http://www.taytocrisps.ie/about-tayto/history-of-tayto/

Arthur Beesley · 11-02-2014 11:23PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

I read some of your other contributions on this thread and in summary you have added very little with the exception of proving you're a bit of a muppet.

Yes Mods I know, infraction etc etc, attack the post not the poster...its ok, I hold myself in contempt but I couldn't resist.

Anyone who still believes that this tale is credible or that the GSOC has acted properly has cleared suspended all disbelief and is prepared to believe anything put before them. The story from GSOC contains more holes than a pair of second hand jocks.

dxhound2005 · 11-02-2014 11:24PM

kippy wrote: »

The problem is, it could well have been a "government level" operation.
How are we to know exactly what went on.
Shatter circled the wagons in the past 24 hours, no doubt smacked some heads together and we're now being treated like mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed the brownstuff)
Those involved are hoping to sweep the whole thing under the carpet although there are now serious calls for the GSOC to be fired essentially.

Somebody somewhere is orchestrating what is going on here and I personally have no trust in two sides of this three sided argument, mainly due to some past lessons history has taught us.

The journalist who started all of this off is being forgotten about. He knows the answers to all the questions and speculation or he knows the people who know the answers. Time for him to reveal all, not just feed us meaningless stuff like "concerns were expressed" or "senior security and military sources said".

Red Pepper · 11-02-2014 11:25PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

I trust nobody now. They are all compromised. The country is as corrupt as ever.

:rolleyes: For Arthur...

MadYaker · 11-02-2014 11:25PM

This whole thing reminds me of this:

Phoebas · 11-02-2014 11:32PM

mickdw wrote: »

If that is the case, what exactly have gsoc done wrong. Sweep carried out. Nothing of significance to report any further.

I agree. It looks more and more like GSOC had a routine sweep carried out. That raised a number of issues; they investigated and the investigation was inconclusive; they concluded that there was no need to escalate and put the thing to bed.

A storm in a teacup.

Arthur Beesley · 11-02-2014 11:36PM

Phoebas wrote: »

I agree. It looks more and more like GSOC had a routine sweep carried out. That raised a number of issues; they investigated and the investigation was inconclusive; they concluded that there was no need to escalate and put the thing to bed.

A storm in a teacup.

So who leaked the story? And what was the aim if leaking the story?

Arthur Beesley · 11-02-2014 11:37PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

:rolleyes: For Arthur...

Why? I agree that the GSOC is compromised.

aloyisious · 11-02-2014 11:37PM

IMO, the question that should be asked: who gain's from the weakening and destruction of the GSOC?

The mention in the Dail by Alan Shatter that there were two sweeps in the GSOC building makes it seem there were regular sweeps for eavesdropping threats there, not just then one "leaked" by a British Paper. The fact that it was an English firm is of no matter, it is a professional firm.

There is clearly a toxic atmosphere between the Gardai and the GSOC. This has in no way been helped by the public response of the Garda Commissioner and the two Garda Representative bodies. It has been clear for some time past, prior to the present hullabaloo, that the Gardai have not been happy with the setting-up of an external oversight group having legal oversight over them. I cannot imagine any chief Constable of any UK police Police Force being let away with public comments about the reliability of the IPCC.

Coming on from the alleged "deduction of Drink-Driving Points" from Garda records, and the Commissioners remarks about "disgust" ref the "whistle-blowers", I can only hope that the Minister for Justice (Mr Shatter) has a chat directly with the Comm and order's him to shut his mouth and not make any more public comments to the media without clearing any comment at least eight (8) hours in advance and getting Mr Shatter's permission in writing.

I had initially thought that it would have been very convenient for some interested party to leave "indications" of bugging at the GSOC building whereby the GSOC would be forced (under data, interview and conference security needs) to carry out checks. If the results were inconclusiver, the GSOC could be accused of crying "wolf" if they reported it to the minister as he would probably be obliged to refer the report to the GS. If, (as has happeneD) the GSOC did not make a report as the bugging-check result was inconclusive, they also end up being accused of being dilatory, giving the Comm the "RIGHT" to ask to investigate the report and probably the GSOC as well as to why it had not reported a "criminal" offence to the GS.

It's my personal opinion that the set of circumstances (as reported in the media to date) setting out the apparent events of GSOC-gate is very advantageous to the Gardai (as a body who's reputation has been set-back lately) and to the Govt.

The question of An Taoiseach being correct (legally and/or media-wise) on the obligation of the GSOC requirement in law to report any/all unusual events to the Minister for Justice and Defence seem's to have had the "unfortunate" effect of misleading the public. I did not know that the GSOC is (according to media reports) answerable to the President, until the media checked out/had prior knowledge of that and reported it as a fact. This stink's of a severe case of blaming the whistle-blower in extremis and knobbling the GSOC to boot, if not an attempt to indirectly interfere with the office of the President and it's contitutional obligations to the GSOC.

Phoebas · 11-02-2014 11:40PM

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

So who leaked the story? And what was the aim if leaking the story?

Nobody knows. Maybe the journalist will tell us more now that his own reputation is on the line.

dxhound2005 · 11-02-2014 11:46PM

aloyisious wrote: »

IMO, the question that should be asked: who gain's from the weakening and destruction of the GSOC?

The mention in the Dail by Alan Shatter that there were two sweeps in the GSOC building makes it seem there were regular sweeps for eavesdropping threats there, not just then one "leaked" by a British Paper. The fact that it was an English firm is of no matter, it is a professional firm.

There is clearly a toxic atmosphere between the Gardai and the GSOC. This has in no way been helped by the public response of the Garda Commissioner and the two Garda Representative bodies. It has been clear for some time past, prior to the present hullabaloo, that the Gardai have not been happy with the setting-up of an external oversight group having legal oversight over them. I cannot imagine any chief Constable of any UK police Police Force being let away with public comments about the reliability of the IPCC.

Coming on from the alleged "deduction of Drink-Driving Points" from Garda records, and the Commissioners remarks about "disgust" ref the "whistle-blowers", I can only hope that the Minister for Justice (Mr Shatter) has a chat directly with the Comm and order's him to shut his mouth and not make any more public comments to the media without clearing any comment at least eight (8) hours in advance and getting Mr Shatter's permission in writing.

I had initially thought that it would have been very convenient for some interested party to leave "indications" of bugging at the GSOC building whereby the GSOC would be forced (under data, interview and conference security needs) to carry out checks. If the results were inconclusiver, the GSOC could be accused of crying "wolf" if they reported it to the minister as he would probably be obliged to refer the report to the GS. If, (as has happeneD) the GSOC did not make a report as the bugging-check result was inconclusive, they also end up being accused of being dilatory, giving the Comm the "RIGHT" to ask to investigate the report and probably the GSOC as well as to why it had not reported a "criminal" offence to the GS.

It's my personal opinion that the set of circumstances (as reported in the media to date) setting out the apparent events of GSOC-gate is very advantageous to the Gardai (as a body who's reputation has been set-back lately) and to the Govt.

The question of An Taoiseach being correct (legally and/or media-wise) on the obligation of the GSOC requirement in law to report any/all unusual events to the Minister for Justice and Defence seem's to have had the "unfortunate" effect of misleading the public. I did not know that the GSOC is (according to media reports) answerable to the President, until the media checked out/had prior knowledge of that and reported it as a fact. This stink's of a severe case of blaming the whistle-blower in extremis and knobbling the GSOC to boot, if not an attempt to indirectly interfere with the office of the President and it's contitutional obligations to the GSOC.

This part sounds close to my theory which I posted in the thread last night, but which was not taken seriously. Nobody had to even leave indications of bugging, somebody could just have sent an anonymous letter. All the parties now are saying that there is no conclusive proof of any bugging so maybe there was no bugging. Like you say it worked out well for any anti GSOC parties, so far at least.

Anyway I have a theory. Some disaffected Garda/Gardai let out the whisper that GSOC was being bugged. GSOC spent €18,000 in bringing in consultants to indentify some "electronic anomolies", meaning there wasn't anything there. Disaffected Gardai contact the Sunday Times to give them the story. Cue embarrassment for the GSOC and the widespread impression being given that they do not trust the Gardai or the Government enough to report an apparent crime being committed on their premises.

Garda Ombudsman offices bugged

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