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Atlantic Storm Watch 2014: February/March

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭patneve2


    track slightly further north?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    3 Weather Warnings in place on Met Eireann and none here??


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭ninebeanrows


    Is that red on that Hirlam a swathe of hurricane force winds coming into the southwest MAQ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,316 ✭✭✭sunbabe08


    what i'm finding very depressing is the map for tomorrow. winter showers for every where except Cork and the southeast :(:(


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭ninebeanrows


    UKM 48hrs is out.

    - Looks like storm is going to peak over parts of southern Ireland with a potential sting jet here as intensification bottoms out.

    - Potential for some violent gusts to 80kt.

    UW48-21.GIF?10-16


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭maquiladora


    Is that red on that Hirlam a swathe of hurricane force winds coming into the southwest MAQ?

    Red is 30 m/s and above.

    12Z GFS has shifted the track north. Strongest winds now head into south Wales rather than Cornwall. Showing gusts here up to around 120 km/h, but nothing as severe as the 12Z HIRLAM.

    51-289UK.GIF?10-12


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    Red is 30 m/s and above.

    12Z GFS has shifted the track north. Strongest winds now head into south Wales rather than Cornwall. Showing gusts here up to around 120 km/h, but nothing as severe as the 12Z HIRLAM.


    Just a quick question where do Hirlam get their information from or is it a separate model?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭maquiladora


    Just a quick question where do Hirlam get their information from or is it a separate model?

    It's a regional model, boundary conditions come from the ECM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Oscar Bravo


    A 1547 update from met warns of structural damage on Wednesday now but track still not certain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭ninebeanrows


    A 1547 update from met warns of structural damage on Wednesday now but track still not certain.

    I see they have removed the comment about the week ahead not being as tempestuous as last from the further outlook :pac::pac:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    I see they have removed the comment about the week ahead not being tempestuous as last from the further outlook :pac::pac:

    They give out here about people getting carried away by changes on one run and not rely on it but Met Eireann seem to do the same in their extended forecast every morning. Surely a forecast like now i.e uncertainty and stay tuned would be much better forecasting.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,466 ✭✭✭Lumi




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 7,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭pistolpetes11


    Ok Folks this thread is back open for discussion on whats coming down the line , thanks for all your input and reports on the storm thread, also I left the weather warning up as there is currently a yellow in place countrywide.

    He is hoping that Friday won't be too bad , but either way we are looking likely for a lot lot more rain, than wind at this stage but that could change.

    293618.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Where is it all coming from since Dec 18th ??? we need to look at the issue of the driveforce.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    So what is going on with Fridays storm, models and such, I loved following yesterdays storm, but now it seems to have a thread of its own with its own name.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    We're going to have to start naming these storms, or at least numbering them. There have been so many it's starting to get confusing!


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    We're going to have to start naming these storms, or at least numbering them. There have been so many it's starting to get confusing!

    Not really.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Not really.

    They are actually getting names now, all the storms we have had since December have been given names, yesterdays was Darwin or Tini depending on which weather service you used, the storm before that was St. Judes and had another name also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭M.T. Cranium


    The parade of storms since mid-December is basically the result of weather patterns over the Pacific Ocean, believe it or not, and this was foreseen in general terms in some of our long-range discussions. The chain of events is something like this: large ridge over the central to eastern Pacific drives very mild air far north into Alaska and northwest Canada, this creates a potent source region for very cold arctic air in the central Canadian arctic linked to Greenland, that cold air forces Hudson Bay to freeze a month early reinforcing a very cold pattern over central North America ... meanwhile the subtropical Atlantic has built up a warm anomaly from not being greatly disturbed by a weak tropical season, and thus without much retrogression to provide any counter-punch from the east, the Atlantic has all the ingredients needed to create storms off the east coast of North America, some of which have already had a history moving through North America, others being new creations such as this most recent storm. Then with no significant northern blocking or cold air source in Europe, the jet stream is locked into long waves this winter, more or less a freeway for storms. Many of them have taken the usual track between Ireland and the Faeroes, but this most recent one interacted with a nasty little kink in the jet stream that was an offshoot of the "polar vortex" phenomenon that has been quasi-permanent in the region south of Greenland. It was that kink showing up in the forecast models which caused me to go into storm alert mode on Monday-Tuesday (the GEM is good on these things although I don't rely much on the derived products, just use the basic structure and fit the outcome to that).

    The pattern may slowly change to something more benign if we can see a disruption to the long waves, some at least weak northern blocking towards early March, or just a higher amplitude to this pattern allowing Ireland to hide behind the stronger heights of an amplified ridge and let Iceland take a turn at receiving all these storms.

    From my research I would say there is a second-order reason for multiple intense storms and that happens to be that certain factors which can often be offset in timing are slowly moving through a reinforcement this winter, that will gradually fade out later in 2014 so that by winter 2014-15 there will be a more normal scattered distribution of energy peaks that I associate with storms. This past storm occurred at one of these reinforced peaks which is why I commented on Tuesday that this storm, already looking ominous on models, could be something of an overperformer.

    While we're into a discussion of the storm, I would mention that the model output held quite a few clues that helped us to make some fairly decent forecasts, most notably the indication of rapid pressure rises across the inland south. We often think of pressure falls being correlated with strong winds but rapid 3-hr rises are even better indicators, and these could be calculated from the model output. This is probably why the very strong winds made such dramatic inland progress.

    Watching the storm unfold early on Wednesday you could see a southern energy centre keeping pace with the main centre of low pressure and this came ashore in Kerry about 1100h, got disrupted by the terrain there and I think watching the radar this then allowed the atmospheric dam holding back this surge of strong winds to break, and the gales came pouring into Clare and Limerick at that time while the modelled offshore hurricane force winds swept along the south coast.

    Anyway, a very interesting storm to watch, it was still slowly deepening over land during the afternoon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭M.T. Cranium


    The bottom line on Friday into Saturday is no major storm foreseen at this time, watching closely in case the track shifts because almost any shift would actually worsen the outcome.

    On the current model consensus track which is northeast through Ireland, a fairly long interval of slack winds would be associated with the passage of this low's anticipated core which is rather flabby and therefore the stronger winds are displaced out quite a distance. If the low shifts even more to the northwest, then Ireland could get into the stronger southerly gales that are currently depicted for northwest Spain, the Biscay region, northwest France and southern Britain. And even there, aside from some local effects that might occur in northwest Spain, these winds are not likely to be as severe as some recent storms, peaking around 120 km/hr.

    If the storm shifted away to the east again, it might produce stronger easterly winds which will be a moderate concern in the case we are being shown by current guidance (meaning 50-90 km/hr SE backing NE winds).

    What is of borderline level one type concern? Two things, locally heavy rainfalls that could renew flooding concerns, and a period of rather strong NW wind gusts in west Kerry towards the departing phase of the event, plus, it may be cold enough to produce some measurable snowfalls at low enough elevations of the north and west that some road travel would be disrupted on Saturday.

    Just to reinforce the organization of the threads, the moderators are intending for this thread to go forward and discuss the Friday and other future events, while the Wednesday "great storm" thread is now intended to finish its service with further reports on aftermath and delayed reports etc.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭Frigga_92


    We're driving to Cork on Saturday on our bikes, is it likely that the weather will be okay, aside from the aftermath, i.e. flooding etc., from the previous storms?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭littlemac1980


    Looking at the potential conditions for Friday at 3pm, and considering the battering most of the Country got so far, any opinions on the severity of Friday.

    293675.jpg

    Pressure.jpg

    293674.jpg

    Wind.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Where is it all coming from since Dec 18th ??? we need to look at the issue of the driveforce.
    The parade of storms since mid-December is basically the result of weather patterns over the Pacific Ocean, believe it or not, and this was foreseen in general terms in some of our long-range discussions. The chain of events is something like this: large ridge over the central to eastern Pacific drives very mild air far north into Alaska and northwest Canada, this creates a potent source region for 7very cold arctic air in the central Canadian arctic linked to Greenland, that cold air forces Hudson Bay to freeze a month early reinforcing a very cold pattern over central North America ... meanwhile the subtropical Atlantic has built up a warm anomaly from not being greatly disturbed by a weak tropical season, and thus without much retrogression to provide any counter-punch from the east, the Atlantic has all the ingredients needed to create storms off the east coast of North America, some of which have already had a history moving through North America, others being new creations such as this most recent storm. Then with no significant northern blocking or cold air source in Europe, the jet stream is locked into long waves this winter, more or less a freeway for storms. Many of them have taken the usual track between Ireland and the Faeroes, but this most recent one interacted with a nasty little kink in the jet stream that was an offshoot of the "polar vortex" phenomenon that has been quasi-permanent in the region south of Greenland. It was that kink showing up in the forecast models which caused me to go into storm alert mode on Monday-Tuesday (the GEM is good on these things although I don't rely much on the derived products, just use the basic structure and fit the outcome to that).

    The pattern may slowly change to something more benign if we can see a disruption to the long waves, some at least weak northern blocking towards early March, or just a higher amplitude to this pattern allowing Ireland to hide behind the stronger heights of an amplified ridge and let Iceland take a turn at receiving all these storms.

    From my research I would say there is a second-order reason for multiple intense storms and that happens to be that certain factors which can often be offset in timing are slowly moving through a reinforcement this winter, that will gradually fade out later in 2014 so that by winter 2014-15 there will be a more normal scattered distribution of energy peaks that I associate with storms. This past storm occurred at one of these reinforced peaks which is why I commented on Tuesday that this storm, already looking ominous on models, could be something of an overperformer.

    While we're into a discussion of the storm, I would mention that the model output held quite a few clues that helped us to make some fairly decent forecasts, most notably the indication of rapid pressure rises across the inland south. We often think of pressure falls being correlated with strong winds but rapid 3-hr rises are even better indicators, and these could be calculated from the model output. This is probably why the very strong winds made such dramatic inland progress.

    Watching the storm unfold early on Wednesday you could see a southern energy centre keeping pace with the main centre of low pressure and this came ashore in Kerry about 1100h, got disrupted by the terrain there and I think watching the radar this then allowed the atmospheric dam holding back this surge of strong winds to break, and the gales came pouring into Clare and Limerick at that time while the modelled offshore hurricane force winds swept along the south coast.

    Anyway, a very interesting storm to watch, it was still slowly deepening over land during the afternoon.

    Many thanks for that MT, it gives us some idea as to the origin of these lows and how the result is us getting battered by them.

    Cheers


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,068 ✭✭✭Iancar29


    Latest charts still dont show much for Fridays event as the broad low centre passes right over the country , filling as it does.

    Gust for a time around coastal areas , max gust likely 80-100km/h
    293680.png

    Rain more of a problem in the West and North West so could lead to some more surface flooding.
    293681.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭maquiladora


    It looks like gales to strong gales for a time along coasts tomorrow morning. A brief phase of Force 6-7 southeasterly winds then moving up along the country, strongest in the south and near coasts. Nothing close to the rare severity of yesterday, though it might be enough to cause some weakened or damaged tree limbs to fall in places. So at worst some sporadic power outages/branches on roads.

    Heavy rain may cause spot flooding and will add to high water levels.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Heavy rain may cause spot flooding and will add to high water levels.
    Yesterday morning for up where I am, was all about spot flooding. There was nothing out of the ordinary rain wise, but it was just running straight off the land into water courses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,604 ✭✭✭dave1982


    Sad news on facebook, just seen on friends feed that her brother in law is in hospital after a tree fell on his van.Young family he's 30 back broke probably never walk again.She is trying to raise money to help the family through this tough time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    Just heard on Sky news(I know, I know :o)that they are expecting 70mm of rain in some places tomorrow :eek:
    And that some local councils are charging residents for sandbags now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭howlinwolf


    Smidge wrote: »
    Just heard on Sky news(I know, I know :o)that they are expecting 70mm of rain in some places tomorrow :eek:
    And that some local councils are charging residents for sandbags now.



    they are unreal on sky news, they only got in on the act of yesterdays storm very late ( around 11 or 12 o clock yesterday) and now they are overhyping the next system out of all proportion ....saying that hurricane force winds are coming again even though there was a weather forecaster on saying that the winds will be nowhere near as strong as yesterday, they just completely ignored her comments and made their own forecast up...oh my god ......seems the rainfall amount might be th biggest factor with tomorrows low


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭maquiladora


    Smidge wrote: »
    Just heard on Sky news(I know, I know :o)that they are expecting 70mm of rain in some places tomorrow :eek:
    And that some local councils are charging residents for sandbags now.

    Parts of Wales and southwest England could see 70mm yeah. Not as much here but still 30+ in the south and west and over the Wicklow Mountains.


    nmmuk-25-54-0.png?13-12


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