Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?

Benny_Cake · 08-02-2014 01:32PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's something that is never reflected on in our 'national media'. Irish people are generally very accepting of honest ways of life on a one to one basis, I have always found.
As we unyoke from the influence of the state and religious thought police you will see more and more able to express that in their public comment and voting preferences.

One thing I've found about people in this country, if they directly come across someone who is being treated unfairly then the tradition of lining up with the underdog kicks in. I think that for most decent people, homophobia doesn't survive the discovery that a loved one or friend is gay, or encountering perfectly normal gay people living perfectly normal lives.

J_E · 08-02-2014 01:34PM

No

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I've always been surprised by her lining up with the rest of the Iona Institute, her opinion pieces on social justice and poverty are quite good and her views on those issues would be almost the complete opposite of those held by David Quinn, for example. On topics unrelated to SSM she is quite sensible.

Yep, exactly. I think it's a shame because these views often get overlooked. Breda drives me crazy as much as the next person with some of her opinion pieces but I don't ever discredit her when she has something meaningful to say.

thattequilagirl · 08-02-2014 01:35PM

No

In a word, yes.

Bannasidhe · 08-02-2014 01:37PM

No

Benny_Cake wrote: »

One thing I've found about people in this country, if they directly come across someone who is being treated unfairly then the tradition of lining up with the underdog kicks in. I think that for most decent people, homophobia doesn't survive the discovery that a loved one or friend is gay, or encountering perfectly normal gay people living perfectly normal lives.

This has been my experience too.

I have noticed that those I have encountered who are reluctant to change, or even seriously discuss, their opinion (not just about homosexuals) tend to be unwilling to explore the possibility that anything they 'learned' may not be quite... truthful (for want of a better word).

Happyman42 · 08-02-2014 01:49PM

No

Cydoniac wrote: »

Yep, exactly. I think it's a shame because these views often get overlooked. Breda drives me crazy as much as the next person with some of her opinion pieces but I don't ever discredit her when she has something meaningful to say.

I also think that Irish writers, as well as the media, tend to depict small communities badly in this respect. A community turning on one of their own tends to give better dramatic possibilities I suppose, but it isn't truthful in many instances. The 50's tends to be written as a dark, catholic obsessed time, but here in a rural community where I live, we had two openly gay publicans (in that everybody knew the situation) living and working without anybody getting the pitchforks out.

Bannasidhe · 08-02-2014 01:57PM

No

Happyman42 wrote: »

I also think that Irish writers, as well as the media, tend to depict small communities badly in this respect. A community turning on one of their own tends to give better dramatic possibilities I suppose, but it isn't truthful in many instances. The 50's tends to be written as a dark, catholic obsessed time, but here in a rural community where I live, we had two openly gay publicans (in that everybody knew the situation) living and working without anybody getting the pitchforks out.

My mother remembers a lesbian couple who were local shopkeepers when she was growing up in the 30s/40s - no pitchforks were brandished. Being a small child it meant nothing to her but she remembers her Grandmother making (positive) comments that indicate she was well aware of what the story was...

Happyman42 · 08-02-2014 02:09PM

No

Bannasidhe wrote: »

My mother remembers a lesbian couple who were local shopkeepers when she was growing up in the 30s/40s - no pitchforks were brandished. Being a small child it meant nothing to her but she remembers her Grandmother making (positive) comments that indicate she was well aware of what the story was...

A story that must be repeated all over the country I always imagined.
Homophobia repeated from the pulpits and in the media caused a lot of problems. It didn't always reflect how communities coped with difference.

Bannasidhe · 08-02-2014 02:18PM

No

cletus van damme wrote: »

you say no ill effects which I'll accept but that doesn't mean it's not more benefical to be raised by a man and women.

That said if a child is in an orphanage - get them to a good home is my view.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Why exactly is it more beneficial?

I keep reading about beneficial and 'better' yet when I ask for details all I get is silence...

Funny that.

There is that Silence again...

*tumbleweed rolls past*

Corkfeen · 08-02-2014 02:44PM

No

Bannasidhe wrote: »

There is that Silence again...

*tumbleweed rolls past*

It happens whenever we ask for facts or provide research.

Sarky · 08-02-2014 02:51PM

No

You're just big bullies shutting down debate by asking for such outrageous things as 'facts' and 'evidence' and 'reasoning'.

JackF1 · 08-02-2014 03:25PM

No

Sarky wrote: »

You're just bug bullies shutting down debate by asking for such outrageous things as 'facts' and 'evidence' and 'reasoning'.

Well if a gay couple have kids it's because they want to focus their love and attention on them.
It is not borne from a medical necessity/peer pressure/societal pressure/trying to cement a relationship!

Bannasidhe · 08-02-2014 03:39PM

No

JackF1 wrote: »

Well if a gay couple have kids it's he's cause they want to focus their love and attention on them.
It is not borne from a medical necessity/peer pressure/societal pressure/trying to cement a relationship!

Or failed contraception.
Or a drunken one night stand without using protection...

Annasopra · 08-02-2014 03:40PM

No

JackF1 wrote: »

Well if a gay couple have kids it's he's cause they want to focus their love and attention on them.
It is not borne from a medical necessity/peer pressure/societal pressure/trying to cement a relationship!

Indeed but several people in this their thread have likened them to gimmicks or handbags

Bannasidhe · 08-02-2014 03:43PM

No

mango salsa wrote: »

Indeed but several people in this their thread have likened them to gimmicks or handbags

Cos nothing says chic like the smell of milky vomit and milton.

Obliq · 08-02-2014 04:02PM

No

mickstupp wrote: »

Well that's a pity then, because the current furor is really doing her credibility no good. I'd never heard of her before this business, presumably there are plenty of others in the same position. Now I hear her name and straight away think: ignorance.

You're not wrong there. Plenty of us know exactly who she is and what she represents though, and it ain't pretty.

Cydoniac wrote: »

To be honest she's an intelligent woman who has brought forth compelling arguments before re: State and education. It's completely clouded and overshadowed by the organisation she supports though. She's practically forced to have the same stance on certain issues and use the same preset phrases.

She is certainly not forced into her judgemental and moralising stance that has so held back Irish women's quest for reproductive choice in this country (for example). She's a leader in the Pro-life movement and has done untold psychological damage to the 4,000 women (+) every year who are made to feel like they should be ashamed of their choices, and ARE shamed by the likes of that poisonous cow in her opinion pieces.

Panti's words about respectable, middle class people penning a 500 word opinion piece advocating lesser rights for gay people struck a major chord with me and many women who have been traumatised by the Iona/pro-life crowd moralising about their choices.

Not trying to change the subject or shove my opinion on this around the wrong thread, but this is one of the reasons I'm so fecking thrilled to see them shown up as the morally bankrupt, ignorant fundamentalists that they are.

SpaceTime · 08-02-2014 04:18PM

I think people are actually giving very little credit to rural Ireland and non D4 urban Ireland too. In my experience anyway rural places are often even more radically transformed than urban areas when it comes to social attitudes.

You know for example Leitrim has gay pride festivals? I can't think of anywhere more rural!

I think there's too much stereotyping going on here and I'm not sure branding rural Ireland as being caught in a time warp is fair or accurate.

There are a lot of very liberal people living outside Dublin and Cork etc.

As for Panti living in the D4 triangle!? She's from rural Mayo and runs a bar in the very heart of the North Inner City of Dublin just a short walk from Stoneybatter.

Bannasidhe · 08-02-2014 04:29PM

No

SpaceTime wrote: »

I think people are actually giving very little credit to rural Ireland and non D4 urban Ireland too. in my experience anyway rural places are often even more radically transformed than urban areas when it comes to social attitudes.

You know for example Leitrim has gay pride festivals for example? I can't think of anywhere more rural!

I think there's too much stereotyping going on here and I'm not sure branding rural Ireland as being caught in a time warp is fair or accurate.

There are a lot of very liberal people living outside Dublin and Cork etc.

As for Panti living in the D4 triangle!? She's from rural Mayo and runs a bar in the very heart of the North Inner City of Dublin just a short walk from Stoneybatter.

In this thread it was really only Dr Regular Joe who was making claims for the existence of a deeply conservative rural Ireland. The majority disagree with him.

He is fond of making sweeping statements that are easily debunked is Dr Reg Joe.

El Weirdo · 08-02-2014 07:08PM

No

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Or failed contraception.
Or a drunken one night stand without using protection...

Hey! There's nothing wrong with my kids!

Bannasidhe · 08-02-2014 07:13PM

No

El Weirdo wrote: »

Hey! There's nothing wrong with my kids!

Have you a meta wotsit with at least 30 years of peer reviewed studies to back that up mister???

:pac:

Ghost Buster · 08-02-2014 07:31PM

No

Im posting this in no relevance to any other post in particular but purely 'cos its going round and round my head in relation to Pantis line about everybody being a bit homophobic.
My memory of exact details are a wee bit sketchy but the gist is:

Many moons ago the late Gerry Ryan told a tale about when he first went to college, Trinity I think, dunno, not important....
He got involved in every society going and in his own words became 'very political and right on'. He became involved in some sort of event/ awareness society for gay rights and was the main man in arranging a disco as the main event. He recalls that at some point in the nigh he was stoop at the edge of the dance floor basking in the after glow and congratulating himself on how forward thinking he is..........Until in full view of all a guy crossed the floor and asked him to dance:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:. He just muttered something or other and had to leave.
That kinda encapsules the 'we are all a bit homophobic' thing for me.

JackF1 · 08-02-2014 07:40PM

No

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Im posting this in no relevance to any other post in particular but purely 'cos its going round and round my head in relation to Pantis line about everybody being a bit homophobic.
My memory of exact details are a wee bit sketchy but the gist is:

Many moons ago the late Gerry Ryan told a tale about when he first went to college, Trinity I think, dunno, not important....
He got involved in every society going and in his own words became 'very political and right on'. He became involved in some sort of event/ awareness society for gay rights and was the main man in arranging a disco as the main event. He recalls that at some point in the nigh he was stoop at the edge of the dance floor basking in the after glow and congratulating himself on how forward thinking he is..........Until in full view of all a guy crossed the floor and asked him to dance:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:. He just muttered something or other and had to leave.
That kinda encapsules the 'we are all a bit homophobic' thing for me.

Meh I just don't like dancing man women gay or straight

I wouldn't call that homophobic you would of certainly marked yourself out in those days to possibly your detriment given he went on to work in RTE any hint he may have been a closet case would of closed his career down.

Times have changed. Though I still don't think any of my straight mates would dance with a guy in a gay bar. And you know I wouldn't expect them too

WilyCoyote · 08-02-2014 08:46PM

Well, "MY MOTHER MADE ME A HOMOSEXUAL" gains credence official kinda official in a roundabout way:

Ray Blanchard and his colleagues at the Clarke Institute in Toronto recently analyzed thousands of families and found that gay men have a later birth order than straight. Specifically, the gay men had more older brothers but not more older sisters once the older brothers were taken into account. A psycho-developmental explanation springs to mind: A young boy might develop homosexual attractions more readily if an older brother is in the picture. But a biological explanation is also on the horizon. The placenta supporting every human pregnancy has small protein fingers that engage the mother's bloodstream by digging into the wall of her uterus. When the placenta is shed, some of the placental cells remain in the uterine wall and can be demonstrated to be alive and well years later. These cells came form the fetus and contain its genome. It is possible that some cells of an early pregnancy remain behind and, by an unexplained mechanism, try to capture the resources of subsequent pregnancies, a sort of biological primogeniture? I like this odd (and admittedly remote) possibility because it shows how much is still unexpected in the biology of human sexuality.

The full article:http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/genetics/evolution.html

alaimacerc · 08-02-2014 08:57PM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

the late Gerry Ryan[...]
That kinda encapsules the 'we are all a bit homophobic' thing for me.

Hrm. Not necessarily the most surprising or the most convincing exemplar, somehow.

efb · 08-02-2014 10:26PM

No

Over 1,000 yeses, I think we should tell RTE...

cloudatlas · 08-02-2014 10:38PM

No

efb wrote: »

Over 1,000 yeses, I think we should tell RTE...

Boards.ie should release all our personal details to the Iona Institute so they can tell their lawyers :pac:

AerynSun · 08-02-2014 10:41PM

No

cloudatlas wrote: »

Boards.ie should release all our personal details to the Iona Institute so they can tell their lawyers :pac:

While they're at it, I hope they remember to tell the bourgeoisie that the proletariat has no money with which to settle silly threats of potential maybe lawsuits on the subject.

cloudatlas · 08-02-2014 11:06PM

No

Breda banging away in the Irish Times again.

"Averil Power Tweeted: 'Really pissed off that Iona are getting Tv licence fee money to help them promote discrimination & prejudice against LGBT people" Makes me wonder why I campaigned to retain the Senate, if that level of invective now passes for fair comment."

:rolleyes: So one person disagrees strongly with you and the whole Senate is held in disrepute

"Odd that you can name in 10 seconds everyone writing for a National newspaper who disagrees with gay marriage, but it would take about a week to name everyone that agrees".

Doesn't that say more about the board of directors of National Newspapers than journalists themselves?

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/02/08/leave-it-mrs-obrien/

K-9 · 08-02-2014 11:12PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

People conveniently forget that divorce goes against the institution of marriage when they argue about marriage equality. It's yet another indication that what we consider marriage, changes over time, adapts for the better. It's the same with many things that would have been a hot topic in Ireland but are now taken for granted without second thought, stuff like secularism, contraception, women's freedom, divorce, homosexuality. Funny John Waters would wattle on about how sacred marriage is considering his own history!

Well that sums up Iona, they'd have been against divorce referenda so it stands to reason they abhor gay marriage. People like Quinn don't really praise single parent families or dads who are separated. They'd love a Dad marrying a woman to make "an honest woman of her". That's the mentality of them.

I wouldn't be surprised if members of Iona are members of groups like Coir, they surface in European referenda, and their fundamental fear is Ireland forced to liberalise abortion laws and not a whole lot else. Different from groups that have legitimate concerns.

Lou.m · 08-02-2014 11:23PM

No

I find it hard to be offended by the opinions the Iona institute are paid to uphold.

I don't doubt that they hold them but I doubt they would stick with them through the storm without the dosh.

These types of people pose as religious institutions to avoid paying tax.

I don't know if Iona pay tax or not. But I know this stuff goes on.

The opinions on divorce fell silent when the whole referenda passed.

Youth defense also used to write stuff about divorce and being anti gay at one point.

They have settled for just abortion now ...they must have divied up the controversial issues between them.

Annasopra · 09-02-2014 01:04AM

No

Rory is on RTE radio 1 at 10am tomorrow morning. He's interviewed by Miriam O'Callaghan.

Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?

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