2016 Election

T0001 · 26-01-2014 10:13pm #1

Democratic Party:
Clinton vs. Biden

Republican:
Christie vs. Ryan

Nationally:
Clinton vs. Christie
Clinton vs. Ryan
Biden vs. Christie
Biden vs. Ryan

Out of each who would you vote for?

InTheTrees · 27-01-2014 2:24am

Well we're pretty much confirmed Democratic Party supporters...even though I dont have a vote, my better half does and I'll be volunteering so I feel like I'm doing something.

I dont know about Christie or Ryan though. While I think Christie might possibly survive the bridge scandal, there's a lot of pundits who say he's all done and I'm inclined to agree. He was always going to be a considerable stretch for the White Southern Christian right wingers to accept. And Ryan? Maybe. He's already had one shot at VP and you dont usually get two so he could try for president but he's never really achieved anything, every "plan" he comes up with is ridiculed, his tax plans and his Healthcare plans were all rehashes of older ideas.

Amerika · 27-01-2014 3:42pm

Hillary Clinton hasn’t announced she’s running yet. If she does commit, even though she has tons of baggage, she’s set as the Democrat’s shoe in IMO. If she doesn’t run, I think Governor Andrew Cuomo (New York), and Governor Martin O'Malley (Maryland) have better shots on the democratic side than Joe Biden.
　
And on the GOP’s side, I wouldn’t count out former Governor Jeb Bush (Florida), Governor Scott Walker (Wisconsin), and Governor John Kasich (Ohio) quite yet.

Brian? · 27-01-2014 5:29pm

Amerika wrote: »

Hillary Clinton hasn’t announced she’s running yet. If she does commit, even though she has tons of baggage, she’s set as the Democrat’s shoe in IMO. If she doesn’t run, I think Governor Andrew Cuomo (New York), and Governor Martin O'Malley (Maryland) have better shots on the democratic side than Joe Biden.
　
And on the GOP’s side, I wouldn’t count out former Governor Jeb Bush (Florida), Governor Scott Walker (Wisconsin), and Governor John Kasich (Ohio) quite yet.

I'm sticking with my prediction of Bush v Biden.

Biden to scrape it.

I can't see Ryan getting the nomination at all.

InTheTrees · 27-01-2014 5:45pm

I dunno about jeb bush.

I think he has some skeletons in his closet that he knows will come out. He's passed on two presidential elections so far which means he hasn't done anything since... 2008?

I dont think that would go down too well with the electorate.

Manach · 27-01-2014 5:46pm

Is it too early still to speculate? In that AFAIR from last time there was a Democratic challenger (Obama), he had left it late-ish before becoming a serious enough candidate to challenge the front runner that was Hillary Clinton.

Amerika · 27-01-2014 6:00pm

Brian? wrote: »

I'm sticking with my prediction of Bush v Biden.

Biden to scrape it.

I can't see Ryan getting the nomination at all.

Bush vs Biden??? :eek: Are you a betting man?

Brian? · 27-01-2014 6:41pm

Amerika wrote: »

Bush vs Biden??? :eek: Are you a betting man?

I am. I'd take 4/1 about that, if you're offering.

Edit: forget that. I can get 33/1 from Paddy Power on a Biden win. Jeb Bush is 14/1

Amerika · 27-01-2014 7:24pm

Brian? wrote: »

I am. I'd take 4/1 about that, if you're offering.

Edit: forget that. I can get 33/1 from Paddy Power on a Biden win. Jeb Bush is 14/1

LOL. What odds do you want that the only place we’ll get to a Bush vs Biden challenge is in the comic strips?

sin_city · 29-01-2014 2:26am

I think Rand Paul has got a chance.

Don't know how bad things will get by 2016 but the worse they get, the better someone like Rand Paul would have.

Corkfeen · 31-01-2014 1:52pm

Brian? wrote: »

I'm sticking with my prediction of Bush v Biden.

Biden to scrape it.

I can't see Ryan getting the nomination at all.

Just could see a 73 year old getting the nomination. I love Biden particularly for the Paul Ryan debate but I just see his age working against him.

Brian? · 31-01-2014 2:15pm

Corkfeen wrote: »

Just could see a 73 year old getting the nomination. I love Biden particularly for the Paul Ryan debate but I just see his age working against him.

I'm sticking by Joe. He's brilliant.

In all seriousness though, I don't know who it'll be.

InTheTrees · 31-01-2014 3:54pm

Here's a Washngton Post story from yesterday. No surprise are regards Hillary's numbers but on the Republican side, its an interesting look at all the different cliques involved in the current power struggle, with no clear leader.

"The new survey puts Christie in third place — with the support of 13 percent of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents — behind Rep. Paul Ryan (Wis.) with 20 percent and former Florida governor Jeb Bush at 18 percent. The rest of the scattered pack includes Sens. Ted Cruz (Tex.), Rand Paul (Ky.) and Marco Rubio (Fla.), who are at 12, 11 and 10 percent, respectively."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/for-2016-hillary-clinton-has-commanding-lead-over-democrats-gop-race-wide-open/2014/01/29/188bb3f4-8904-11e3-833c-33098f9e5267_story.html

tipptom · 31-01-2014 4:35pm

Is Biden taken seriously enough to even have a chance of winning the Dem nomination?

Manach · 31-01-2014 4:52pm

Corkfeen wrote: »

Just could see a 73 year old getting the nomination. I love Biden particularly for the Paul Ryan debate but I just see his age working against him.

Fair point, but Regan has shown that age was not really a determing factor, but instead used it as a opportunity to showcase his experience - a factor that Biden could also utilise.

Amerika · 31-01-2014 4:54pm

tipptom wrote: »

Is Biden taken seriously enough to even have a chance of winning the Dem nomination?

IMO... NO! I’d say a lot of people view him as the lovable, crazy old uncle type, who "tends to go off the reservation" at times. He will be given a smidgen of consideration as respect for holding the office of VP though.

Keep a watch on Scott Walker, governor of Wisconsin, on the GOP side. He has national name recognition from a recent battle in his state regarding collective bargaining, and in short order has turned a state in financial trouble to one with a $1 billion surplus that he intends to give back to the people who earned it.

Brian? · 31-01-2014 9:38pm

Amerika wrote: »

IMO... NO! I’d say a lot of people view him as the lovable, crazy old uncle type, who "tends to go off the reservation" at times. He will be given a smidgen of consideration as respect for holding the office of VP though.

A crazy old uncle type eh? That's a bit much. He's been in the Senate for a long time but seems to have made few enemies, even on the right.

That is until he spanked Ryan in the VP debate. He made Ryan look like a high school kid who's read a couple of books by Milton Friedman.

I'd put Biden up against any of the GOP possibles in a debate. He's far more savvy than you give him credit for.

In 2008 he played it perfectly against Palin as well. He could have humiliated her but knew it would make him look like a bully. So he played it safe and refused to be dragged into anything. It was a no win situation and he came out of it neutral, which was all he needed.

Keep a watch on Scott Walker, governor of Wisconsin, on the GOP side. He has national name recognition from a recent battle in his state regarding collective bargaining, and in short order has turned a state in financial trouble to one with a $1 billion surplus that he intends to give back to the people who earned it.

Scott Walker gutted education and Medicaid spending. He also fought civil partnership for gay couples. He's your ideal candidate but none of that will play well nationally.

tipptom · 31-01-2014 10:43pm

Brian? wrote: »

A crazy old uncle type eh? That's a bit much. He's been in the Senate for a long time but seems to have made few enemies, even on the right.

That is until he spanked Ryan in the VP debate. He made Ryan look like a high school kid who's read a couple of books by Milton Friedman.

I'd put Biden up against any of the GOP possibles in a debate. He's far more savvy than you give him credit for.

In 2008 he played it perfectly against Palin as well. He could have humiliated her but knew it would make him look like a bully. So he played it safe and refused to be dragged into anything. It was a no win situation and he came out of it neutral, which was all he needed.

Scott Walker gutted education and Medicaid spending. He also fought civil partnership for gay couples. He's your ideal candidate but none of that will play well nationally.

I think Biden may be well liked because he has that old back slapping charm all right but I think you have even said it yourself that Ryan and Palin were easy targets for him and his handlers but when he is caught in the cross lights of being under questioning as the main man I think he will be found wanting.

Amerika · 03-02-2014 3:38pm

Brian? wrote: »

Scott Walker gutted education and Medicaid spending.

How exactly did Scott Walker gut education and Medicaid?

Amerika · 03-02-2014 4:11pm

Brian? wrote: »

That is until he spanked Ryan in the VP debate. He made Ryan look like a high school kid who's read a couple of books by Milton Friedman.

I'd put Biden up against any of the GOP possibles in a debate. He's far more savvy than you give him credit for.

In 2008 he played it perfectly against Palin as well. He could have humiliated her but knew it would make him look like a bully. So he played it safe and refused to be dragged into anything. It was a no win situation and he came out of it neutral, which was all he needed.

Biden... Smooth perhaps, but definately not savvy!

I’ll give you Biden won the debate with Palin in the court of public opinion, but not for his debate performance on substance, which was nearly a draw IMO. Palin suffered in the court of public opinion because of her poor performance in interviews leading up to the debate, and admittedly her inexperience. The moderator Gwen Ifill didn’t help either in the objectivity category, as she was given too much leeway in choosing the questions, which IMO were geared to helping give credence to her upcoming book The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama, and she failed to inform the debate commission of her upcoming book due to come out the day after the presidential inauguration, that would probably caused her not to be considered for the roll of moderator if the commission knew. And Biden scored big time with his story of the tragic car accident that claimed the life of his wife and daughter and injured his sons when he first started out in the Senate -- nothing to do with the debate issues. And the SNL paradoy of her right after the debate probably influenced people's opinion on the debate.

In the snickering Biden versus courteous Ryan debate, I think it was a draw. But if you look at opinions, many consider Ryan the winner. And if one considers Biden the winner, I think it was merely because Ryan refused to lower himself to Biden’s level and looked weak because of his refusal to play gutter politics.

Brian? · 03-02-2014 4:57pm

Amerika wrote: »

Biden... Smooth perhaps, but definately not savvy![

VP and longest serving senator ever without being savvy. That's some work.

I’ll give you Biden won the debate with Palin in the court of public opinion, but not for his debate performance on substance, which was nearly a draw IMO. Palin suffered in the court of public opinion because of her poor performance in interviews leading up to the debate, and admittedly her inexperience. The moderator Gwen Ifill didn’t help either in the objectivity category, as she was given too much leeway in choosing the questions, which IMO were geared to helping give credence to her upcoming book The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama, and she failed to inform the debate commission of her upcoming book due to come out the day after the presidential inauguration, that would probably caused her not to be considered for the roll of moderator if the commission knew. And Biden scored big time with his story of the tragic car accident that claimed the life of his wife and daughter and injured his sons when he first started out in the Senate -- nothing to do with the debate issues. And the SNL paradoy of her right after the debate probably influenced people's opinion on the debate.

For once you're right about media bias. The media tore Palin to shreds. But then how couldn't they? She was an abysmal candidate who was way out of her depth.

As I said the debate was almost a tactical draw because Biden was in a no win situation.

In the snickering Biden versus courteous Ryan debate, I think it was a draw. But if you look at opinions, many consider Ryan the winner. And if one considers Biden the winner, I think it was merely because Ryan refused to lower himself to Biden’s level and looked weak because of his refusal to play gutter politics.

Ryan lost that debate because Biden out thought him. Simple as that. The "brains" of the GOP was surprisingly shallow that night. Those deep in the right wing bubble are the only ones who thought Ryan won.

BTW Biden wasn't snickering. He was laughing out loud at Ryan and how easy he made it.

Amerika · 03-02-2014 5:24pm

Brian? wrote: »

Those deep in the right wing bubble are the only ones who thought Ryan won.

Holy Cow... When did CNN, ABC and CNBC become part of the right wing bubble? How in the world did I miss such a monumental defection? Sheeeez... Nobody tells me nuttin!

Brian? · 03-02-2014 6:00pm

Amerika wrote: »

Holy Cow... When did CNN, ABC and CNBC become part of the right wing bubble? How in the world did I miss such a monumental defection? Sheeeez... Nobody tells me nuttin!

Wow. CNN, CNBC and ABC called the debate for Ryan? Really?

Nobody tells me nuttin.

Or you're making that up.

Mjollnir · 04-02-2014 8:42pm

Amerika wrote: »

Holy Cow... When did CNN, ABC and CNBC become part of the right wing bubble? How in the world did I miss such a monumental defection? Sheeeez... Nobody tells me nuttin!

Why are you lying?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politics/debate-five-things-learned/

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/vice-presidential-debate-2012-winner-joe-biden-paul-ryan-who-won-analysis-reaction-brazile-dowd-wallace-17459507

Get off my lawn! · 05-02-2014 4:03am

Brian? wrote: »

A crazy old uncle type eh? That's a bit much. He's been in the Senate for a long time but seems to have made few enemies, even on the right.

No, I think that's fair, which is why the Joe Biden 'Trans Am' spoofs have legs. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but he's definitely like the fun uncle who taught you dirty limericks and slipped you $20 when you mom wasn't looking.

That said, I don't think he is going to get the nomination.

sawdoubters · 05-02-2014 5:34am

Christie will not be running,he shut down a freeway to punish democrats,clinton will not run shes too old she will be 68
biden will be 73 he will not run ,ryan has 2 strikes hes catholic and republican

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/christie-continues-denying-bridgegate-knowledge-office-subpoenaed-article-1.1601117

Get off my lawn! · 05-02-2014 7:55pm

sawdoubters wrote: »

Christie will not be running,he shut down a freeway to punish democrats,clinton will not run shes too old she will be 68
biden will be 73 he will not run ,ryan has 2 strikes hes catholic and republican

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/christie-continues-denying-bridgegate-knowledge-office-subpoenaed-article-1.1601117

Why do you think that being Catholic is a strike against Ryan?

Get off my lawn! · 06-02-2014 12:26am

sawdoubters wrote: »

Christie will not be running,he shut down a freeway to punish democrats,clinton will not run shes too old she will be 68
biden will be 73 he will not run ,ryan has 2 strikes hes catholic and republican

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/christie-continues-denying-bridgegate-knowledge-office-subpoenaed-article-1.1601117

Not sure why you replied on my wall and not on thread but…despite the fact that there has only been one Catholic POTUS, I don't think that Catholicism is a liability. John Kerry lost because he was a terrible candidate from Massachusetts running against an incumbent, not because he was Catholic. Mario Cuomo was tipped for the Dem nod in 1992, but bowed out, and eliminated himself from consideration for the VP nod and the Supreme Court (which, interestingly, is dominated by Catholics and Jews, in total contrast to its history as a bastion of male WASPS). Even if he received the nomination, he may have been too far to the left of the electorate to win.

Traditionally the country's most powerful Catholic politicians have had urban and/or relatively liberal political bases (the Daleys, Kennedys and Cuomos, for example). That doesn't always translate well to national elections. Whatever limitations Catholic politicians face, I don't think they have much to do with religious identification, and are rather more due to ideology and bases of support. The U.S. has come a long way since Al Smith.

Amerika · 06-02-2014 11:30pm

Brian? wrote: »

Wow. CNN, CNBC and ABC called the debate for Ryan? Really?

Nobody tells me nuttin.

Or you're making that up.

I didn't say they called the debate for Ryan, I asked when CNN, ABC and CNBC became part of the right wing bubble? But I do see how some could take it that way.

CNN: Ryan 48% - Biden 44%

George Stephanopoulos, the face of ABC political team originally picked Joe Biden as the winner but later hedged and acknowledged that "Ryan held his own – did not make any big mistakes; humanized himself, when he had to humanize himself." Coming from ABC I take that as a kinda win... at least proof they’re not part of the "right wing bubble."

A CNBC Poll first showed Paul Ryan at 56% - Joe Biden: 36%, This turned out to be incorrect and later released Biden at 52%, Ryan at 44%. So I was wrong on this one, as I remembered the original polling figures.

And getting back to my question: How exactly did Scott Walker gut education and Medicaid?

Brian? · 07-02-2014 12:50am

Amerika wrote: »

I didn't say they called the debate for Ryan, I asked when CNN, ABC and CNBC became part of the right wing bubble? But I do see how some could take it that way.

CNN: Ryan 48% - Biden 44%

George Stephanopoulos, the face of ABC political team originally picked Joe Biden as the winner but later hedged and acknowledged that "Ryan held his own – did not make any big mistakes; humanized himself, when he had to humanize himself." Coming from ABC I take that as a kinda win... at least proof they’re not part of the "right wing bubble."

A CNBC Poll first showed Paul Ryan at 56% - Joe Biden: 36%, This turned out to be incorrect and later released Biden at 52%, Ryan at 44%. So I was wrong on this one, as I remembered the original polling figures.

The above is a perfect example of how you debate. Borderline dishonest and disingenuous at the very least. None of the networks called it for Ryan. In fact only one of the networks polls, CNN, called it for Ryan. This is a poll though, not the opinion of anyone at CNN. So as I said, you made it up.

For posterity, here's what you said:

Amerika wrote: »

Holy Cow... When did CNN, ABC and CNBC become part of the right wing bubble? How in the world did I miss such a monumental defection? Sheeeez... Nobody tells me nuttin!

You didn't say CNN, ABC and CNBC called it for Ryan? Ok, what was the intent of this statement then?

And getting back to my question: How exactly did Scott Walker gut education and Medicaid?

In 2013 he took $900 million out of state aid to education.

In 2011 he took $500 million out of the Medicaid budget.

Conas · 07-02-2014 12:55am

I can't stand Hiliary Clinton to be honest, and I hope she doesn't get in. Ever since she started laughing hysterically at the butchering of Gaddafi that turned me off her for life. What does she offer exactly, apart from being the wife of Bill Clinton? She doesn't strike me as Presidential material at all.

Biden would be a solid choice, and could do well.

On the Republican side, I like Christie and Rand Paul the most. They'd be a strong ticket if they were to run together. Jeb Bush has more hope of getting elected than the dog down the street, after the almost permanent damage his brother done, he also signed the high treason document 'Project for a new American Century' which called for a new Pearl Harbour which they got on 9/11. We don't want another 9/11 and we don't want another Bush war.

2016 Election

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