Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?

opinionated3 · 05-02-2014 08:48PM

Nodin wrote: »

The sex?

Yep...

Bannasidhe · 05-02-2014 08:49PM

No

opinionated3 wrote: »

As I said on another thread nodin for me its a case of not on my doorstep please. The act of gay love disgusts me andi just don't think it's natural. Having that said I wish no harm on anyone. It's my opinion and not something I'm going to run down the street with a megaphone blaring about. If that is the definition of a homophobe well then so be it. I'll have to live with that

The thought of anyone having sex with a really really hairy man with a beer belly disgusts me but guess what - I never ever think about it and while I can't understand why, I do accept that some people really like having sex with really really hairy men with beer bellies and that is no bodies business but their own.

Beer bellies are not natural.

Obliq · 05-02-2014 08:49PM

No

opinionated3 wrote: »

No kids yet. ... It's actually an issue that bothers me. That is why I questioned earlier how I would react. I could be the best father in the world but the disappointment of having a gay so or daughter scares me. Just being honest here

And that's fine. Rather you were honest.

I'm a straight woman, with 2 boys, and am in a relationship now with a man who is tolerant of all sorts. To me, this is a good thing. Being tolerant of differences and changes, because people don't stay the same and people aren't all the same. The disappointment you would potentially feel is a scary thing to surmount.

It is a scary thing to be in some way ok with a way of life that you have been brought to believe is wrong. You may react badly, why wouldn't you? Unfortunately for so many people who have been convinced by their elders of what is right and what is wrong.....not everything in real life is so black and white. Some of it is gay and straight. Some of it is divorced/single and married. NONE of it is fully within our control, and that's what is scary.

To my mind, the greatest lesson in 21st century Ireland is that people's lifestyles are not within the control of the RCC. That is troublesome for many, but also liberating.

Nodin · 05-02-2014 08:49PM

No

opinionated3 wrote: »

Yep...

I'll give the usual advice - don't have gay sex then.

And its odd how I know you mean men, not women.......

Bannasidhe · 05-02-2014 08:50PM

No

opinionated3 wrote: »

You see..... You just used the word hate. I wouldn't hate them. I just wouldn't approve of their lifestyle. If anything they would probably end up hating me....

Trust me.

They will believe you hate them - why else would you shun them?

floggg · 05-02-2014 08:50PM

No

opinionated3 wrote: »

Yep...

Well, in fairness, will you ever be comfortable picturing your child having sex?

Dear god, i really hope not!

Obliq · 05-02-2014 08:51PM

No

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The thought of anyone having sex with a really really hairy man with a beer belly disgusts me but guess what - I never ever think about it and while I can't understand why, I do accept that some people really like having sex with really really hairy men with beer bellies and that is no bodies business but their own.

Beer bellies are not natural.

Everyone is lovely bann.....beer bellies being lovely TOTALLY depends on the wearer of said beer belly. Really.

Fat can be beautiful if the bearer is your loved one :cool:

opinionated3 · 05-02-2014 08:52PM

Nodin wrote: »

I'll give the usual advice - don't have gay sex then.

And its odd how I know you mean men, not women.......

Great advice nodin as usual. ...

J_E · 05-02-2014 08:52PM

No

Nodin wrote: »

I'll give the usual advice - don't have gay sex then.

And its odd how I know you mean men, not women.......

Well, the general perception seems to allude that unnatural = anal sex. Anal sex isn't exclusive to gay men at all though.

iwantmydinner · 05-02-2014 08:53PM

So, for want of a better phrase, it's simply the "ick" factor, opinionated3?

Do you not think that you would only be hurting yourself by ostracising a child of yours if they came out to you?

While I think of it, would you prefer a son or daughter to pretend, potentially at great personal, emotional and developmental cost, not to be gay, just to save your feelings?

lazygal · 05-02-2014 08:53PM

No

opinionated3 wrote: »

No kids yet. ... It's actually an issue that bothers me. That is why I questioned earlier how I would react. I could be the best father in the world but the disappointment of having a gay so or daughter scares me. Just being honest here

I can assure you when you are a parent other things would disappoint you far more. Like a child picking on a classmate. Or not being a decent human being. Or not being able to do the right thing. Of all the things that your children would cause you disappointment over, being born gay is not something that should scare you.

What age are you OP? I'm in my 30s and being gay isn't a big deal in my group. Only the other day I heard a four year old tell me that sometimes men marry men or women marry women or men mary women and that's okay because it doesn't matter who you marry as long as you're in love.

Bannasidhe · 05-02-2014 08:53PM

No

floggg wrote: »

Well, in fairness, will you ever be comfortable picturing your child having sex?
Dear god, i really hope not!

Son of Mine and his OH lived with me for a while... their bed squeaked.

I got them a new bed.

It squeaked too.

:eek:

opinionated3 · 05-02-2014 08:54PM

iwantmydinner wrote: »

So, for want of a better phrase, it's simply the "ick" factor, opinionated3?

Do you not think that you would only be hurting yourself by ostracising a child of yours if they came out to you?

While I think of it, would you prefer a son or daughter to pretend, potentially at great personal, emotional and developmental cost, not to be gay, just to save your feelings?

No not at all. They are who they are. I don't have to believe it's natural though do I?

lazygal · 05-02-2014 08:56PM

No

opinionated3 wrote: »

No not at all. They are who they are. I don't have to believe it's natural though do I?

It is natural. That's like saying you don't think gravity is natural. There are examples of gay animals in nature.

It's akin to getting annoyed because of any other trait they will be born with, like having blue eyes or being tall or having five fingers on each hand. Your children will be who they are, even at a few weeks old they'll have their own preferences about things.

Nodin · 05-02-2014 08:57PM

No

Obliq wrote: »

Everyone is lovely bann.....beer bellies being lovely TOTALLY depends on the wearer of said beer belly. Really.

Fat can be beautiful if the bearer is your loved one :cool:

And y-fronts, y-fronts too.

iwantmydinner · 05-02-2014 08:58PM

opinionated3 wrote: »

No not at all. They are who they are. I don't have to believe it's natural though do I?

But it *is* natural - you've just said so... "they are who they are"

Kiwi in IE · 05-02-2014 08:58PM

No

opinionated3 wrote: »

No not at all. They are who they are. I don't have to believe it's natural though do I?

What do you mean by 'natural'?

floggg · 05-02-2014 08:58PM

No

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The thought of anyone having sex with a really really hairy man with a beer belly disgusts me but guess what - I never ever think about it and while I can't understand why, I do accept that some people really like having sex with really really hairy men with beer bellies and that is no bodies business but their own.

Beer bellies are not natural.

To go back to the empathy point, does the fact that Bannasidhe feels disgusting by the idea of you having sex (lets pretend you are hairy and have a beer belly) make your heterosexuality less normal or natural?

Try to break the mental link between homosexuality and homosexual sex.

When you walk into work and you see your straight colleagues, you don't immediately picture them having sex, do you?

Sex is only one aspect of a person's life. In the same way you aren't defined by what you do in the bedroom, neither is a gay person.

Ultimately as a father all you would want is your child to be safe and happy. If somebody of the same sex did that for them, then that's all that should matter.

It wasn't me! · 05-02-2014 08:59PM

opinionated3 wrote: »

No not at all. They are who they are. I don't have to believe it's natural though do I?

Surely the fact that you would have been unavoidably exposed to a person you created, for whom it was absolutely natural, would make belief that it is unnatural an awesome feat of mental acrobatics?

Bannasidhe · 05-02-2014 08:59PM

No

Obliq wrote: »

Everyone is lovely bann.....beer bellies being lovely TOTALLY depends on the wearer of said beer belly. Really.

Fat can be beautiful if the bearer is your loved one :cool:

Absolutely.

I just don't want to picture them getting jiggy with it because I think it is icky.

Or really really skeletal woman...ick.

None of my business what consenting adults of all shapes and sizes get up to, Just saying I prefer not to let images of them getting up to whatever they get up to invade my mind...any of them.

I keep my feeling of ick to myself which is exactly where they belong.

opinionated3 · 05-02-2014 09:02PM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Surely the fact that you would have been unavoidably exposed to a person you created, for whom it was absolutely natural, would make belief that it is unnatural an awesome feat of mental acrobatics?

Natural to me is Man and woman. .... which is how the child came into being in the first place. ..
Lazygal I'm 36 by the way. .... No gay friends or relations (that I know of! ). Just a few that I know from my local pub

opinionated3 · 05-02-2014 09:03PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Absolutely.

I just don't want to picture them getting jiggy with it because I think it is icky.

Or really really skeletal woman...ick.

None of my business what consenting adults of all shapes and sizes get up to, Just saying I prefer not to let images of them getting up to whatever they get up to invade my mind...any of them.

I keep my feeling of ick to myself which is exactly where they belong.

Totally agree here. If I keep it to myself who am I harming? ?

lazygal · 05-02-2014 09:04PM

No

opinionated3 wrote: »

Natural to me is Man and woman. .... which is how the child came into being in the first place. ..
Lazygal I'm 36 by the way. .... No gay friends or relations (that I know of! ). Just a few that I know from my local pub

Do you have issues with assisted human reproduction? Should people who can't have or don't want children be able to get married?

opinionated3 · 05-02-2014 09:06PM

lazygal wrote: »

Do you have issues with assisted human reproduction? Should people who can't have or don't want children be able to get married?

I assume you're talking heterosexual couples here? Yeah I believe that the family unit should be man and woman. It's what feels natural to me. ...

floggg · 05-02-2014 09:08PM

No

opinionated3 wrote: »

Totally agree here. If I keep it to myself who am I harming? ?

Well, do you treat any gay people you meet with the equal dignity and respect they deserve?

And when asked to vote on marriage equality in the upcoming referendum will you cast your vote to ensure equality (including for your hypothetical gay child)?

Obliq · 05-02-2014 09:08PM

No

Nodin wrote: »

And y-fronts, y-fronts too.

Y-fronts are not pretty, but can be accommodated if taken off quickly.
Hmm. I'll have to think about that.

As for opinionated3 - my dear, male or female, I think that your problematic disgust for anal sex is a pity. If that is all that is standing in the way of you potentially accepting your potential children potentially having gay sex and potentially wanting to marry a man/woman of the same gender, I'm thinking you don't have to worry about that yet. And your vote, in your capacity to decide for other people, doesn't have to hinge on your potential feelings for your future kids potential hardship/sexual orientation.

In other words, don't sweat it. You're not there yet, and perhaps you shouldn't be in the business of denying other people rights that you haven't fully worked through yet, in yourself. Be cool to yourself - everyone in Ireland is forgiven for being homophobic

A good read: http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/01/30/what_is_homophobia_why_straight_men_are_right_to_be_afraid_of_homosexuality.html

lazygal · 05-02-2014 09:08PM

No

opinionated3 wrote: »

I assume you're talking heterosexual couples here? Yeah I believe that the family unit should be man and woman. It's what feels natural to me. ...

But you brought children into it and referred to how they came into being, so should the desire and ability to have children be part of the registration process when you want to get married? Do you have a problem with people who reproduce via artificial means?

opinionated3 · 05-02-2014 09:12PM

floggg wrote: »

Well, do you treat any gay people you meet with the equal dignity and respect they deserve?

And when asked to vote on marriage equality in the upcoming referendum will you cast your vote to ensure equality (including for your hypothetical gay child)?

I treat everyone with respect as long as it's reciprocated. That goes for straight and gay alike. I have yet to make my mind up on the referendum. I will certainly be giving it a lot of thought. If it was to lead to gay couples being allowed to adopt then my vote would be no...

sarkozy · 05-02-2014 09:12PM

opinionated3 wrote:

It's what feels natural to me. ...

So you're OK with gay people, then, because it sure feels natural to gay people.

I'm glad we settled that one. It's natural evolution, like. :rolleyes:

Sarky · 05-02-2014 09:13PM

No

opinionated3 wrote: »

Totally agree here. If I keep it to myself who am I harming? ?

Keeping it to yourself is a lot harder than you might think. It's going to come out in subtle little ways that'll make someone somewhere feel sh*tty.

But I suspect you'd mostly be hurting yourself. You'd be missing out on a lot of good things by hanging on to your disgust. If one of your kids was gay, you'll miss out on their partners, their weddings, a dozen milestones you'd attend for a straight child.

Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?

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