Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?

Corkfeen · 02-02-2014 02:26PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

Accusing people of being homophobic for not supporting SSM is not fair comment, however much one chooses to believe it is.

Mind addressing Iona's opposition to gay teachers? You seem to be being very selective in terms of what you address. Strange that.

RobertKK · 02-02-2014 02:29PM

floggg wrote: »

Then can you explain how you think a desire for a child to be raised by their natural mother and father where possible is justification for prohibiting same sex marriage?

How does same sex marriage jeopardise that arrangement?

It won't because the state will allow anyone adopt, the state has too much power over children, like how they went in and took children into care last year, but then had to give them back to the family when the state was found to be wrong.

State marriage/civil marriage is a sham. So much so the state needs divorce for their marriage.

RobertKK · 02-02-2014 02:31PM

Corkfeen wrote: »

Mind addressing Iona's opposition to gay teachers? You seem to be being very selective in terms of what you address. Strange that.

I had a lesbian teacher giving us sex education, she was also a maths teacher, she liked talking to the class and we could get sex education during maths class.

I do not speak for the Iona institute.

Corkfeen · 02-02-2014 02:32PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

I had a lesbian teacher giving us sex education, she was also a maths teacher, she liked talking to the class and we could get sex education during maths class.

I do not speak for the Iona institute.

So you'll admit that an organisation fighting for the right to fire lgbt teachers is homophobic? That's cleared up so.

Annasopra · 02-02-2014 02:34PM

No

floggg wrote: »

Does anybody have the link to the video?

I've read it a couple of times but never seen it live.

It's on the site dailymotion.com go there and do a search for Saturday nught night show

floggg · 02-02-2014 02:34PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

It won't because the state will allow anyone adopt, the state has too much power over children, like how they went in and took children into care last year, but then had to give them back to the family when the state was found to be wrong.

State marriage/civil marriage is a sham. So much so the state needs divorce for their marriage.

So what exactly is your point and the source of your opposition?

I'm asking genuinely because you are asserting that being opposed to marriage equality is not the same as being homophobic.

Can you therefore set out a rational and reasoned justification for opposition to marriage equality, and actually demonstrate the benefit rather than just making vague references.

in what tangible way does denying same sex couples marriage rights benefit society and/or in what tangible way does giving them the right to marry hurt society.

RobertKK · 02-02-2014 02:36PM

floggg wrote: »

Yes, it very much is.

no matter how uncomfortable it makes the alleged homophobe.

And you should seriously watch this for an understanding of the point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH0o6ZDQrKc

I don't agree, but that doesn't matter, you and others can label people, it doesn't make it fact.

efb · 02-02-2014 02:37PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

I don't agree, but that doesn't matter, you and others can label people, it doesn't make it fact.

Can you?

efb · 02-02-2014 02:38PM

No

Solidarity with Iona Payout Protest from Aviva Stadium

RobertKK · 02-02-2014 02:39PM

floggg wrote: »

So what exactly is your point and the source of your opposition?

I'm asking genuinely because you are asserting that being opposed to marriage equality is not the same as being homophobic.

Can you therefore set out a rational and reasoned justification for opposition to marriage equality, and actually demonstrate the benefit rather than just making vague references.

in what tangible way does denying same sex couples marriage rights benefit society and/or in what tangible way does giving them the right to marry hurt society.

I despise civil marriage for heterosexuals, if we had a referendum to abolish that, I would vote Yes.
Why would I want more civil marriage?
You may want the state involved in marriage, I don't.

RobertKK · 02-02-2014 02:39PM

efb wrote: »

Can you?

What?

floggg · 02-02-2014 02:39PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

I don't agree, but that doesn't matter, you and others can label people, it doesn't make it fact.

no, it does't. it doesn't mean i can't say it.

RobertKK · 02-02-2014 02:43PM

Corkfeen wrote: »

So you'll admit that an organisation fighting for the right to fire lgbt teachers is homophobic? That's cleared up so.

I did not say that.

I don't know why they had a problem, but it doesn't automatically equal homophobia.

efb · 02-02-2014 02:43PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

What?

Label people?

I can't identify people as racist homophobic or xenophobic then??? Ok

Annasopra · 02-02-2014 02:43PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

For studies the pool of research is small.

That is NOT true

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/131/4/e1374.short

efb · 02-02-2014 02:44PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

I did not say that.

I don't know why they had a problem, but it doesn't automatically equal homophobia.

What does it equal???

Corkfeen · 02-02-2014 02:47PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

I did not say that.

I don't know why they had a problem, but it doesn't automatically equal homophobia.

Then you're in complete and utter denial of homophobia. Campaigning to fire a teacher because of their race is racist, sexual orientation same applies.

floggg · 02-02-2014 02:49PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

I despise civil marriage for heterosexuals, if we had a referendum to abolish that, I would vote Yes.
Why would I want more civil marriage?
You may want the state involved in marriage, I don't.

RobertKK wrote: »

This whole marriage thing is not discrimination. We can all choose to feel discriminated against, it doesn't mean one actually is.

I am not a fan of marriage, but I think it is a good for two people who plan to have children together and for the child to have their mother and father committed together for their child(ren).
That is my personal experience.

Otherwise I don't see the need for marriage.

Surely if its a good thing for straight couples wanting a family its also good for gay couples in a similar position.

Even if you aren't a fan of marriage, can you not agree that's discriminatory to allow straight couples to marry but not gay couples, all things being equal?

there are many provisions of the tax code and social policy i disagree with, but where they are applied i believe they should be done on an equal basis.

P_1 · 02-02-2014 02:49PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

I did not say that.

I don't know why they had a problem, but it doesn't automatically equal homophobia.

The trouble in my eyes is that homophobia has become a very loaded word as of late (in no small part to certain folk using it to significantly shift the posts).

What the II and their ilk are currently promoting in is blatant institutionalized discrimination which is completely influenced by their homophobic views. Simply put this discrimination is absolutely wrong in my eyes. Ending any kind of discrimination (while it may possibly cause some loss of prestige or whatnot to those who aren't impacted by it) is something that needs to be done in many many aspects of society.

LookingFor · 02-02-2014 02:51PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

I did not say that.

I don't know why they had a problem, but it doesn't automatically equal homophobia.

It certainly does.

The reason they have a problem is because they believe if a school subscribes to an ethos, it should be able to fire someone if they are gay and homosexuality goes against their ethos. That 'religious conscience' should trump all.

If anything is homophobic, it is Catholic ethos and teaching on homosexuality, and Iona wishes schools etc. to be able to hide behind that to get rid of gay teachers if the school wishes.

A 'religious conscience' can be a homophobic one, no matter how sincerely or otherwise it is held.

RobertKK · 02-02-2014 02:52PM

efb wrote: »

Label people?

I can't identify people as racist homophobic or xenophobic then??? Ok

I do my best in life to not label a person.

I think when a person is labelled, they are put in a box, it can lead to more resentment, and rather than changing an opinion, it just makes the person you disagree with more hardline in their view.
One can put a point across without the need to put the opposing person in a box with a label.

If one wants to call other people names then they should be prepared to be called a name or put in a box too. I avoid this as I think this just leads to more conflict rather than a solution.

Name calling via a label, is confrontational and just leads to more confrontation. It is a sign of a poor debate when labels have to be used to argue for something.
That is why I try and avoid putting a label on someone.

P_1 · 02-02-2014 02:53PM

No

LookingFor wrote: »

It certainly does.

The reason they have a problem is because they believe if a school subscribes to an ethos, it should be able to fire someone if they are gay and homosexuality goes against their ethos. That 'religious conscience' should trump all.

If anything is homophobic, it is Catholic ethos and teaching on homosexuality, and Iona wishes schools etc. to be able to hide behind that to get rid of gay teachers if the school wishes.

A 'religious conscience' can be a homophobic one, no matter how sincerely or otherwise it is held.

Very true. In my eyes somebody's religious freedoms end as soon as they reduce somebody else's civil rights but perhaps that's another day's argument.

cloudatlas · 02-02-2014 02:57PM

No

Saturday Night Show:

Noel Whelan seems very confused bless his cotton socks. He doesn't sound at all sure if he knows what his position is.

Susan Philips must have bumped her head on the way in, she can't remember what she opposed in '93. Her wide eyed surprise of what was said is quite the reversal from her sneering and patronizing tone and statements on Prime Time.

Keith wants someone like Susan Philips to laugh and enjoy what he's saying cripes ???

Well said Una, we are socially conditioned in such an insidious way that we can't even say it (homophobia). The gent who was attacked put forward the point that I always make when I meet someone homophobic and then someone else tells me that they are entitled to their opinion, it has a trickle down effect, the Irish media legitimise fear, just like the Daily Mail legitimises fear of immigrants. If kids grow up knowing that their parents can get married but their friend's parents can't get married because they are gay then there is a seed of doubt in their mind about the legitimacy of their friend's parents.

floggg · 02-02-2014 02:58PM

No

brent_popey wrote: »

im not opposed to gay marriage although im completely opposed to gay adoption , I don't buy these so called studies which show their is no difference between being raised in a same sex couples or a opposite sex couple , the kind of folk who conduct studies often have agendas and merely announce a preferred conclusion - outcome and then proceed to work their way back

i doubt anything could ever be published which would change you mind.

Corkfeen · 02-02-2014 02:59PM

No

brent_popey wrote: »

im not opposed to gay marriage although im completely opposed to gay adoption , I don't buy these so called studies which show their is no difference between being raised in a same sex couples or a opposite sex couple , the kind of folk who conduct studies often have agendas and merely announce a preferred conclusion - outcome and then proceed to work their way back

Tell that to the children of same sex parents on boards. Or the parents, all turned out perfectly fine, so rejecting the studies is a tad sad tbh. How is it that nobody with agenda has proved contrary?

Mickeroo · 02-02-2014 02:59PM

No

brent_popey wrote: »

im not opposed to gay marriage although im completely opposed to gay adoption , I don't buy these so called studies which show their is no difference between being raised in a same sex couples or a opposite sex couple , the kind of folk who conduct studies often have agendas and merely announce a preferred conclusion - outcome and then proceed to work their way back

How many of them have you read?

P_1 · 02-02-2014 03:00PM

No

brent_popey wrote: »

im not opposed to gay marriage although im completely opposed to gay adoption , I don't buy these so called studies which show their is no difference between being raised in a same sex couples or a opposite sex couple , the kind of folk who conduct studies often have agendas and merely announce a preferred conclusion - outcome and then proceed to work their way back

Shouldn't you be arguing in a studio with George Hook at the moment Popey?

Corkfeen · 02-02-2014 03:09PM

No

brent_popey wrote: »

beit opposition to global warming or anything else , those carrying out studies are often predisposed to a particular outcome , I believe this is the case when it comes to same sex couples and adoption

im opposed to the idea of children being used as pawns in a culture - idealogical war

Opposition to global warming articles rarely make it through peer review.

Studies are debunked if not credible, simple as.

floggg · 02-02-2014 03:15PM

No

brent_popey wrote: »

beit opposition to global warming or anything else , those carrying out studies are often predisposed to a particular outcome , I believe this is the case when it comes to same sex couples and adoption

im opposed to the idea of children being used as pawns in a culture - idealogical war

listen, there is zero point arguing with you. you have clearly indicated you won't accept any evidence which contradicts your opinion.

and yet i can be very certain you can offer no evidence to support yours.

RobertKK · 02-02-2014 03:21PM

Corkfeen wrote: »

Opposition to global warming articles rarely make it through peer review. Studies are debunked if not credible, simple as.

Errors have appeared in peer reviewed studies.

Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?

Comments