Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?

Eh, some people seem to be under the impression that the definition of homophobia has been widened specifically for Iona. It really hasn't, they've always fit the definition. Also, they're not even simply opposed to same sex marriage. They made a submission to the government to retain the right for gay people to be fired in schools because of their orientation . How can anyone say with a straight face that they're not homophobic?

Skobie 69 wrote: »

I think you make an important point about the dumbing down of the word homophobia but it's those who support gay marriage that have been responsible for the reclassification as to what is homophobic & what is not.

No, I'm sorry. I'm not letting stuff like this slide by passively any more. Being homophobic does NOT mean you are a horrible person, take a watch of this again and you will understand (why, oh why did Iona ban this)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x19q67h_rory-oneill-the-saturday-night-show-11-1-2014_gaylesbian

it's those who support gay marriage that have been responsible for the reclassification as to what is homophobic & what is not.

Perhaps because it's our word? Iona have clung onto this word and are trying hard to reclaim it as a term. It is a very valid term, and such an important word! It made the distinction that it's the name callers at fault, not homosexuals. It is a fluid term...it can mean very subtle behaviour, much like you could 'support black people' but still feel they are inferior in other ways.

"The problem with the word homophobic...people imagine that if you say 'oh, he's a homophobe', that he's a horrible monster who beats up gays...that's not the case"

The definition of homophobia is to have an irrational hatred but there are many including myself who support gay rights & civil partnership but would be classed as homophobes now because of our wish to protect the traditional institution of marriage in order to act as a bulwark against the societal onslaught against the family.

When people conjure up 'hatred' in their mind they think of Rory's idea of a horrible monster. Homophobia doesn't manifest itself like this in society, it's much more subtle and venomous in a sense. Iona are the worst crowd for using roundabout terms to dissipate homophobia, and if you can't see this, you need to look again. John Waters is probably the least tactful of the lot of them, calling gay marriage a satire and claiming we only want it so we can destroy it and 'relish' in the destruction. How is this NOT homophobic!? The family argument by the way, is Iona brainwashing...it completely ignores same-sex families that have thriving kids. Here's One of many. As it stands, gay parents have to fight a LOT harder to have kids, they are usually great parents as a result.

I don't harbour any hatred towards anyone because of their sexual inclination or indeed to anyone whether or not they agree with me & if as seems likely that gay marriage will become part of Irish law then fine.

Hatred is the wrong word...Iona don't 'harbour any hatred' either, at least not on face value, but by placing one family below the other, you are effectively valuing one over the other. It's fine if you do, but you can't legally enforce that without a big fallout.

I'm not a member of the Iona Institute or have the time or inclination to join such a group. However there is a debate to be had about the knock on effect of societal changes constantly attacking the traditional family unit, the effects of which are constantly decried on this forum & I hope this debate will be allowed, however looking at some of the posts above...I strongly doubt it.

Sorry but you sound just like David Quinn right now...

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/can-we-have-a-respectful-debate-on-samesex-marriage-i-dont-think-so-29966462.html

I'll remind you that this is the man who considered civil partnerships grotesque, and said “We’ll pay a heavy price for same-sex unions” while claiming in that column that's he's always supported same sex unions, being so arrogant as to claim he supported 1993 decriminalisation, like it's a medal to wear or something. You keep mentioning family units, but it's a distraction argument, and is completely irrelevant to a lot of couples who would like to get together first before any kids! Not only does gay marriage help cement the rights of gay men and women, but as a plus (and this is an important one a lot of people miss), it effectively bridges that gap in relatability between straight and gay couples. When it's seen that gay couples can marry just like everyone else, there is a feeling that 'oh, maybe they are like us after all', and slowly but surely, society becomes more accepting of them. It's really important to think about that also.

Debate is allowed when sides don't get censored by people with the most connections and deepest pockets! and when arguments are rational, which a lot of Iona's aren't.

If this is what homophobia is, then truly homophobic acts - such as some of the legal changes in Russia persecuting homosexuals - will get lost in the hue & cry.

You don't think Iona are heading us in that direction?

Finally, I think you're well wide of the mark when it comes to media outlets in this country with regards to any possible anti-gay bias. With or without your march you can rest assured that RTE, the Irish Times, the Indo et al will all come out firmly in support of gay marriage come referendum time.

They will now because we're making a clear stand. Had we been apathetic, RTE would have happily let Iona influence them onwards. We're already at this stage now;

(by @StephenByrne86)


No, I've stood by before and said let people have their opinions, live and let live, etc. But Iona and subsequently RTE crossed a line. I do not want this behaviour to ever be enabled and condoned, and I'll be standing proudly amongst the 1500 or so hopefully present at the march on Sunday, because this has to stop.

mango salsa wrote: »

According to twitter tonights pannelists are

Noel Whelan
Susan Philips

Averil Power
Colm O'Gorman

Susan Philips opposed the decriminalisation of sodomy in 1993, as well as being vocal with a whole host of other homophobic crap. I'm sure she's just perfect for deciding who gets to define homophobia.

Now hopefully Power and O'Gorman will be allowed to take her apart without a flood of legal threats, but it looks for all the world like RTE are just going from blunder to blunder.

Sarky wrote: »

Susan Philips opposed the decriminalisation of sodomy in 1993, as well as being vocal with a whole host of other homophobic crap. I'm sure she's just perfect for deciding who gets to define homophobia.

Now hopefully Power and O'Gorman will be allowed to take her apart without a flood of legal threats, but it looks for all the world like RTE are just going from blunder to blunder.

Not homophobic though.

Sarky wrote: »

Presumably since RTE have changed the topic of tonight's Saturday Night Show to include 'internet hate campaigns', they'll mention David Quinn's own attempt at one.

Advantage to having O Gorman on is that he's b perfectly aware that the Twitter hate campaign is Bs.