Iona vs Panti

Turtwig · 29-01-2014 05:25PM

Beruthiel wrote: »

Ten points of what?

Ten arbitrary boardsie points of nothing other than symbolism.

robindch · 29-01-2014 05:38PM

Jernal wrote: »

(Ten points [...] )

You've an extra 'o' in there.

joseph brand · 29-01-2014 07:53PM

Jernal wrote: »

Pardon my cynicism.

But how much money do Waters et al make for RTE when they make such lofty statements on their talk shows. The cynic in me is thinking that the only reason RTE paid these people damages is because they know that having them on air time makes them more money in the long run. It's just good business.

(Ten points to the poster who catches the reference.
Google is cheating.)

Ryan Tubridy?

The Black Oil · 29-01-2014 09:04PM

Poor Iona Institute
In crying oppression they ain't half cute
Gays they don't get
On criticism they fret
Now slap on your legal suit

expectationlost · 29-01-2014 09:29PM

Beruthiel wrote: »

Panti's twitter.

how does do those complaints matter? they are not legal complaints, rte will capitulate, settle out of court, as it has done, then hide behind legal matters and we'll never hear the real story of what RTE did wrong in these cases, see Fr Kevin Reyonolds Primetime story, Frontline not checking the tweet etc etc

vitani · 29-01-2014 10:07PM

It probably won't make a difference but I've just sent a complaint to RTÉ as well.

I was nearly sick when I heard the story about damages being paid this morning. It frustrates me that everyone I know agrees that there's nothing defamatory about what Rory said. It seems that RTÉ just can't be arsed standing up to the Iona Institute.

tawnyowl · 29-01-2014 10:49PM

ewan whose army wrote: »

A religious lobby forcing its own morality onto others by excessive and unwarranted access to the media, RTE are far too close to Iona if I am honest

Iona patrons often appear on RTE, though their connection with Iona doesn't seem to be mentioned often, if at all.

tawnyowl · 29-01-2014 10:57PM

robindch wrote: »

From everything I've read of his, Seamus seems to be a thoroughly decent chap.

Last time I heard of Seamus, he was working as an election overseer in the disputed (and sniper-fire-level dangerous) Azerbaijani/Armenian territory of Nagorno-Karabakh a few months back - I can't imagine somebody of Waters stature being similarly willing to going out and doing something positive to uphold democracy.

Agreed, Seamus Martin is a decent guy and a good journalist.

Sulla Felix · 29-01-2014 11:09PM

Anyone know the ins and outs of a FOI request and whether it might be of use to get something out of RTE re the compensation?

lazygal · 29-01-2014 11:12PM

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Anyone know the ins and outs of a FOI request and whether it might be of use to get something out of RTE re the compensation?

I would doubt rte comes under foi requests.

Sulla Felix · 29-01-2014 11:16PM

It seems to, but I don't know in what areas or that kind of stuff. Trying to trawl the foi website now.

http://foi.gov.ie/bodies-in-the-broadcasting-sector

wp_rathead · 29-01-2014 11:31PM

Anyone listen to the start of RTE Late Debate? Started off with nice lil exchange between Colm O'Gormon (d'ligind) and Breda O'Brien about PantiGate?

Colm basically sums it up with: (paraphrase)
No one has the right to not be offended , but people have right to point when people are being offensive.

Dave! · 29-01-2014 11:51PM

Yeah was listening, rowdy stuff indeed. Wish they had let it go on for longer. Surely Newstalk or TV3 someone would host a proper debate on that topic?

Brown Bomber · 29-01-2014 11:53PM

What is the problem exactly?

It's like the BBC/ Lord McCalpine case. Allegations were made against persons by people who can't prove their allegations.

29-01-2014 11:54PM

"They're being horrible and mean" is not an allegation
A state broadcaster using money taken from the people under threat of force (if you have a tv) to hand out to a group before there's even any legal action or official settlement, if true, is a disgrace

Brown Bomber · 29-01-2014 11:56PM

bluewolf wrote: »

"They're being mean" is not an allegation
A state broadcaster using money taken from the people under threat of force (if you have a tv) to hand out to a group before there's even any legal action or official settlement, if true, is a disgrace

Homophobe is though.

robindch · 29-01-2014 11:58PM

TD's Jerry Buttimer, Catherine Murphy and John Lyons are tabling questions in the Dail about the actions of Quinn and RTE:

https://twitter.com/evanmurphycork/status/428647013992132608
https://twitter.com/CathMurphyTD/status/428594361303977984
https://twitter.com/JohnLyonsTD/status/428236218653224960

30-01-2014 12:00AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Homophobe is though.

It wasn't used by Panti until Brendan used it; he then said it's like racism in that he's sure we're all just a little bit racist, and that denying equal rights is homophobia.
They're essentially having a fit because they were directly called mean and horrible, that's all there is to it.

robindch · 30-01-2014 12:02AM

And LGBT Noise are organizing a protest outside the Gaiety Theater this Sunday at 2pm:

http://www.thejournal.ie/panti-bliss-rte-iona-1289053-Jan2014/

vitani · 30-01-2014 12:03AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Homophobe is though.

I think he was very careful in how it was phrased. In response to Brendan O'Connor outright asking him if John Waters was homophobic, he said he finds people who actively campaign against gay marriage to be homophobic. It's a fair comment, and while the Iona Institute et al might disagree with his interpretation, there was nothing illegal about it.

Brown Bomber · 30-01-2014 12:07AM

bluewolf wrote: »

It wasn't used by Panti until Brendan used it; he then said it's like racism in that he's sure we're all just a little bit racist, and that denying equal rights is homophobia.
They're essentially having a fit because they were directly called mean and horrible, that's all there is to it.

This is a direct quote when speaking about John Waters ""I'm sorry, yes you are a homophobe".

Delirium · 30-01-2014 12:12AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Homophobe is though.

bluewolf wrote: »

It wasn't used by Panti until Brendan used it; he then said it's like racism in that he's sure we're all just a little bit racist, and that denying equal rights is homophobia.
They're essentially having a fit because they were directly called mean and horrible, that's all there is to it.

RO’N: “So much has changed. And I think em a small country like Ireland sometimes we get a bad rap because people think “oh small conservative country blah blah blah”. But actually I think a small country like Ireland changes much faster than a big country because absolutely…I’m..think about it every single person in this audience has a cousin or a neighbour or the guy that you work with who is a flaming queen. I mean you all know one. And it’s very hard to hold prejudices against people when you actually know those people. And Ireland because it’s such small communities grouped together, everybody knows the local gay and you know maybe twenty years ago it was okay to be really mean about him but nowadays it’s just not okay to be really mean about him. The only place that you see it’s okay to be really horrible and mean about gays is you know on the internet in the comments and you know people who make a living writing opinion pieces for newspapers. You know there’s a couple of them that really cheese..”

BO’C: “Who are they?”

RO’N: “Oh well the obvious ones. You know Breda O’Brien [Irish Times Columnist] today, oh my God you know banging on about gay priests and all. The usual suspects, the John Waters and all of those people, the Iona Institute crowd. I mean I just..you know just…Feck Off! Get the hell out of my life. Get out of my life. I mean..[applause from audience] why…it astounds me…astounds me that there are people out there in the world who devote quite a large amount of their time and energies to trying to stop people you know, achieving happiness because that is what the people like the Iona Institute are at.”

BO’C: “I don’t know. I don’t know. I know one of the people that you mentioned there which is John Waters. I wouldn’t have thought that John Waters is homophobic?”

RO’N: “Oh listen, the problem is with the word ‘homophobic’, people imagine that if you say “Oh he’s a homophobe” that he’s a horrible monster who goes around beating up gays you know that’s not the way it is. Homophobia can be very subtle. I mean it’s like the way you know racism is very subtle. I would say that every single person in the world is racist to some extent because that’s how we order the world in our minds. We group people. You know it’s just how our minds work so that’s okay but you need to be aware of your tendency towards racism and work against it. And I don’t mind, I don’t care how you dress it up if you are arguing for whatever good reasons or you know whatever your impulses…”

BO’C: “Because it is what you believe, it’s your faith or that, yeah?”

RO’N: “…it could be good impulses..and you might believe that these impulses are good because you’re worried about society as a whole and all this rubbish. What it boils down to is if you’re going to argue that gay people need to be treated in any way differently than everybody else or should be in anyway less, or their relationships should be in anyway less then I’m sorry, yes you are a homophobe and the good thing to do is to sit, step back, recognise that you have some homophobic tendencies and work on that. You know stop spending so much of your life you know devoting energies to writing things, arguing things, coming on TV to do anything to try and stop people achieving what they think they need for happiness.”

Source

It wasn't Rory that suggested that Waters (Iona weren't mentioned) is a homophobe, he just didn't dispute the what Brendan said.

Zillah · 30-01-2014 12:13AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

This is a direct quote when speaking about John Waters ""I'm sorry, yes you are a homophobe".

I am shocked - shocked - to find you in here defending a conservative religious person.

Brown Bomber · 30-01-2014 12:17AM

SW wrote: »

It wasn't Rory that suggested that Waters (Iona weren't mentioned) is a homophobe, he just didn't dispute the what Brendan said.

???

This is quoted from that text.

I’m sorry, yes you are a homophobe and the good thing to do is to sit, step back, recognise that you have some homophobic tendencies and work on that.

I don't know who Iona are or who John Waters is for that matter, nor do I care what drag queens say on what looks like an awful tv program but I do know you can't make allegations of homophobia on national TV.

I can only assume that they are false allegations seeing as RTE has agreed to settle the case.

Turtwig · 30-01-2014 12:17AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

This is a direct quote when speaking about John Waters ""I'm sorry, yes you are a homophobe".

Can actually make the argument that he wasn't speaking about Waters directly. He was speaking about anyone who makes a certain criterion of arguments. At no point does he directly state Waters is homophobic, only implies that a person who makes the arguments waters does is homophobic. It's the host that mentions Waters is Homophobic.

if you’re going to argue that gay people need to be treated in any way differently than everybody else or should be in anyway less, or their relationships should be in anyway less then I’m sorry, yes you are a homophobe

Dave! · 30-01-2014 12:18AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

???

This is quoted from that text.

I don't know who Iona are or who John Waters is for that matter, nor do I care what drag queens say on what looks like an awful tv program but I do know you can't make allegations of homophobia on national TV.

I can only assume that they are false allegations seeing as RTE has agreed to settle the case.

Disingenuous much?

Brown Bomber · 30-01-2014 12:21AM

Dave! wrote: »

Disingenuous much?

True for McAlpine then true for Waters, right?

Delirium · 30-01-2014 12:21AM

Jernal wrote: »

Can actually make the argument that he wasn't speaking about Waters directly. He was speaking about anyone who makes a certain criterion of arguments. At no point does he directly state Waters is homophobic, only implies that a person who makes the arguments waters does is homophobic. It's the host that mentions Waters is Homophobic.

@BB Jernal nails it.

Dave! · 30-01-2014 12:23AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

True for McAlpine then true for Waters, right?

I dunno who/what McAlpine is

Delirium · 30-01-2014 12:25AM

robindch wrote: »

TD's Jerry Buttimer, Catherine Murphy and John Lyons are tabling questions in the Dail about the actions of Quinn and RTE:

https://twitter.com/evanmurphycork/status/428647013992132608
https://twitter.com/CathMurphyTD/status/428594361303977984
https://twitter.com/JohnLyonsTD/status/428236218653224960

Claire Daly too AFAIK.

Iona vs Panti

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