Beer on ice? ... Come on

czechlin · 29-01-2014 12:50PM

When I drink cider then glass with ice is welcome.
When I drink beer no, just no. I tried it but I don't see the point. It ruins the taste (doh..) and gives me a brain-freeze, ouch. Actually I think if I ever want to cause my father a heart attack I might just tell him that I drink beer with ice...

But I've no problem with other people drinking it that way. Each to their own. The things I've done to whisky I'd say I'd get a beating over that from whisky lovers :pac:

o1s1n · 29-01-2014 12:59PM

Yeah I thought the same and would have ice in a glass of cider without thinking any different. I think most people seem to be the same.

I've been drinking bottles of Aspall the last while and it's so very tasty straight up without any watery ice in it.

GLaDOS · 29-01-2014 01:14PM

Ice in beer is sacrilegious.

29-01-2014 01:32PM

boardfriek wrote: »

Actually this post was more around in issue in general. Not really connected to a certain brand. But I guess a few of the guys here would see it differently once someone got served ice cubes in a Guinness

Why did you bump your three your old thread to post this?

Cienciano · 29-01-2014 01:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Why did you bump your three your old thread to post this?

Because he's a freak. A boards freak.

EyeSight · 29-01-2014 01:44PM

Try getting a whiskey in irish pubs/clubs. So much ice! If you don't finish the drink in less than 5 mins it gets severely watered down

boardfriek · 29-01-2014 01:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Why did you bump your three your old thread to post this?

Out of curiosity to see what will happen....and as I can see the result is very interesting

29-01-2014 01:59PM

xxyyzz wrote: »

TBH, I wouldn't consider it snobbery that people are willing to be adventurous and sample new and different beer. Granted there are some holier than thou folks out there ramming their opinions down your throat in the same way that there is the typical Irish attitude of putting people down for trying something different.

The big beer brands are all pushing these extra cold beers because it numbs the tastebuds and you don't actually have to taste the beer. Try a room temperature budweiser and see how you get on. If you are happy drinking the big brands, fair enough, but there are far better beers out there. This is a fact, not snobbery.

The thing that really annoys me is the "you disgusting pig, you drink Budweiser" outbursts (I don't happen to drink it myself). The little condescending putdowns and pontifications of the wonders of craft ales etc.

I don't there is any real reciprocation or putdowns of people wanting to try something different, in fact I've never heard any condescending comments of "you disgusting pig, you're drinking a craft beer".

The condescension only flows one way.

xxyyzz · 29-01-2014 02:17PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The condescension only flows one way.

Eh... The original post I responded to was "beer snobbery is the latest manifestation of the hipster mentality". It seems to flow both ways. As I said, if you want to drink macro beers, go nuts. There are far superior alternatives out there.

IMHO

rubadub · 29-01-2014 02:26PM

boardfriek wrote: »

There is something annoying going on lately as Pubs starting to serve glasses with ice cubes when you order a bottled beer.

Nothing new about this, going on as long as I can remember.

Martyn1989 wrote: »

I work in a pub, and for some reason the majority of people when getting a bottle of bud/miller/coors/heino take a glass of ice (especially women) I dont understand why they would do it, the last thing you need is watered down beer.

Really? as in over 50%, I know some do but though over 50% do not, some might take the glass with ice and not use it of course, or dump the ice out, so they should not be included. I wish barmen would ask about automatically putting ice and/or lemons in spirits, at least with the glass you can decide not to put it in.

As for watered down beer, most mainstream beers like guinness & heineken are fermented to a higher % and diluted down in the brewery, so its not that crazy a thought to dilute it a little again.

Pretty sure satzenbrau ads showed ice in the 80's. It was about 5.5% at one stage so the dilution was probably bringing it down to more standard %.

JayEnnis · 29-01-2014 02:30PM

EyeSight wrote: »

Try getting a whiskey in irish pubs/clubs. So much ice! If you don't finish the drink in less than 5 mins it gets severely watered down

The majority of people don't know how to order whiskey.. Ask for it neat.

The majority rules and the majority drinks it on the rocks. Just a heads up by the way, ice cools ice so you'll have less dilution the more ice in the drink. One cube will melt a lot faster than five.

Beefy78 · 29-01-2014 02:30PM

I love beer. I grew up in England where most pubs will have some kind of local ale and the larger chains will have a huge variety of craft beer, ale and commercial stuff.

Sometimes its nice to have a pint of something new. Sometimes its nice to have a cold pint of something that you know.

Beer snobbery definitely exists and it's really pathetic (IMO). Unless someone is drinking Carling. There's no excuse for that.

29-01-2014 02:34PM

xxyyzz wrote: »

Eh... The original post I responded to was "beer snobbery is the latest manifestation of the hipster mentality". It seems to flow both ways. As I said, if you want to drink macro beers, go nuts. There are far superior alternatives out there.

IMHO

This is kind of what I mean. You say "if you want to drink macro beers, go nuts" but can't resist the "there are far superior alternatives out there" comment afterwards.

I say, "if you want to drink craft beers, go nuts". Full stop.

FTA69 · 29-01-2014 02:38PM

JayEnnis wrote: »

The majority of people don't know how to order whiskey.. Ask for it neat.

Not to be pedantic but some whiskey is supposed to be served with a drop of water.

super_furry · 29-01-2014 02:53PM

Some people like it, some people don't. Can't say I could muster up enough enthusiasm to care either way.

Banjo String · 29-01-2014 02:55PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Not to be pedantic but some whiskey is supposed to be served with a drop of water.

Some pubs I've drank in, in the past already had water in the whiskey.....straight from the optics.

xxyyzz · 29-01-2014 03:00PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This is kind of what I mean. You say "if you want to drink macro beers, go nuts" but can't resist the "there are far superior alternatives out there" comment afterwards.

I say, "if you want to drink craft beers, go nuts". Full stop.

But we're agreed there is condescension in both directions which was your original point, right?

29-01-2014 03:08PM

The only beers I've ever seen ice being served with are coors light or budweiser.

I've been called a beer snob by friends because I don't really like lager. I've been given stick by "beer snobs" because I like smithwicks. I can't win

I drink whatever I feel like when I'm in the pub, Guinness, Smithwicks, Paulaner, Leffe would be the usual ones if I'm in a "standard" pub. I've never ever been served any of them with ice.

EyeSight · 29-01-2014 03:19PM

JayEnnis wrote: »

The majority of people don't know how to order whiskey.. Ask for it neat.

The majority rules and the majority drinks it on the rocks. Just a heads up by the way, ice cools ice so you'll have less dilution the more ice in the drink. One cube will melt a lot faster than five.

I do but either they hear whiskey and run off to the ice bucket before i can finish speaking or else i need to explain what neat means (i know right!?!)

JayEnnis · 29-01-2014 04:48PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Not to be pedantic but some whiskey is supposed to be served with a drop of water.

Your point is? Whiskey has no definitive way of being served. Yes, Generally those above 40% ABV are served with a drop of water to cut the ABV and open it up. At the same time if someone asks for a dram of Makers mark and you give them a jug of water they'll look at you like you've two heads and ignore the water . It's all personal preference. I drink my Woodford neat, with a drop of water or in a Manhattan/Old fashioned. Bartenders aren't mind readers, ask for what you want.

Also death to the people who come to the bar and ask for a "Whiskey". What kind? Irish, Scotch, Bourbon, Rye etc..

This whole thread comes down to people not knowing how to order a drink because in my opinion we've got such a ****ty, uneducated nation of drinkers. Want ice? Ask for ice. Don't want Ice? Say no ice. I know in the last bar I worked in management specifically said to serve bottled beers with ice. I don't agree with it but that's SOP so it has to be done.

Badly Drunk Boy · 29-01-2014 05:04PM

EyeSight wrote: »

I do but either they hear whiskey and run off to the ice bucket before i can finish speaking or else i need to explain what neat means (i know right!?!)

Don't use Americanisms, then.

"Can I've an Irish whiskey, no ice?" Simple.

rubadub · 29-01-2014 05:07PM

JayEnnis wrote: »

The majority of people don't know how to order whiskey.. Ask for it neat.

The majority rules and the majority drinks it on the rocks. Just a heads up by the way, ice cools ice so you'll have less dilution the more ice in the drink. One cube will melt a lot faster than five.

If all 5 are melted its diluted more, that's what he was getting at people putting loads of ice in, half it not even in the liquid and getting heated by surrounding air.

Even if its not all melted I doubt there is much difference between the 5 and the single going into the glass, as the 5 will partially melt too.

http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2013/06/cocktail-science-myths-about-ice-big-cubes-are-better-dry-shaking-whiskey-dilution.html

the 5 would possibly add more water, it depends on a few factors

Does that mean we should use crushed ice for every drink?

No—you also have to consider water that is on the surface of the ice before you add it to your drink. Small ice has tons of surface area. As a result, it accumulates surface water—liquid water that builds up on the outside of the ice through melting and through condensation. When you add small ice to a drink, that surface water immediately dilutes the drink without adding any chilling benefit.

Of course, this is really much more of an issue if you are in a bar situation where ice is stored at room temperature. If you use lots of small ice directly from the freezer, surface liquid should be insignificant.

JayEnnis wrote: »

because in my opinion we've got such a ****ty, uneducated nation of drinkers. Want ice? Ask for ice. Don't want Ice? Say no ice. I know in the last bar I worked in management specifically said to serve bottled beers with ice. I don't agree with it but that's SOP so it has to be done.

I'd rather meet an "ignorant" customer than a self righteous barman, I'm cringing reading this "don't know how to order" crap.

Bartenders aren't mind readers, ask for what you want.

IMO They should give what is asked for, if it was not requested and you think they might like it then the barman should ask, e.g. if they want ice or lemon in a vodka. Otherwise who knows what crap is going to be automatically added because of some stupid bar manager. "Can I have a pint of guinness, no ice, no lemon, no cream, no blackcurrant, no umbrella.... "

29-01-2014 05:08PM

EyeSight wrote: »

I do but either they hear whiskey and run off to the ice bucket before i can finish speaking or else i need to explain what neat means (i know right!?!)

Funny, a friend of mine drinks whiskey, with ice, and any time I order it I'm asked "would you like ice in it".

JayEnnis · 29-01-2014 05:22PM

rubadub wrote: »

If all 5 are melted its diluted more, that's what he was getting at people putting loads of ice in, half it not even in the liquid and getting heated by surrounding air.

Even if its not all melted I doubt there is much difference between the 5 and the single going into the glass, as the 5 will partially melt too.

http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2013/06/cocktail-science-myths-about-ice-big-cubes-are-better-dry-shaking-whiskey-dilution.html

the 5 would possibly add more water, it depends on a few factors

I'd rather meet an "ignorant" customer than a self righteous barman, I'm cringing reading this "don't know how to order" crap.

IMO They should give what is asked for, if it was not requested and you think they might like it then the barman should ask, e.g. if they want ice or lemon in a vodka. Otherwise who knows what crap is going to be automatically added because of some stupid bar manager. "Can I have a pint of guinness, no ice, no lemon, no cream, no blackcurrant, no umbrella.... "

If you're worried about dilution then why are you drinking your whiskey with ice in it anyway? The second you put ice in a drink it's a time bomb until it becomes a cold slushy mess. You're right about one large cube or ball though but very few bars in Ireland have the mold's to make these.

As for your other point the simple fact is that a good bartender know's better than the customer. Take for example a gin and tonic, a simple drink ****ed up in nearly every bar in Ireland (By both the bartender by providing the wrong garnish and the customer by removing it). Hendricks gets a cucumber slice, gins with heavy citrus notes get a lime & the ones that err more on the side of juniper get a lemon. There's a reason it's in the drink and it's because it compliments the flavor. I cringe every time I see a customer take the garnish out of their drink. And use some common sense, Vodka is unpalatable without ice as are most neutral grain spirits. The only reason people order without ice is because they're ignorant and think the more ice they get the less alcohol will be in the drink.

Edit: Would you tell your accountant how to prepare your accounts? Tell a chef how to make their soup? That's all I'm saying.

xxyyzz · 29-01-2014 05:24PM

JayEnnis wrote: »

If you're worried about dilution then why are you drinking your whiskey with ice in it anyway? The second you put ice in a drink it's a time bomb until it becomes a cold slushy mess. You're right about one large cube or ball though but very few bars in Ireland have the mold's to make these.

As for your other point the simple fact is that a good bartender know's better than the customer. Take for example a gin and tonic, a simple drink ****ed up in nearly every bar in Ireland (By both the bartender by providing the wrong garnish and the customer by removing it). Hendricks gets a cucumber slice, gins with heavy citrus notes get a lime & the ones that err more on the side of juniper get a lemon. There's a reason it's in the drink and it's because it compliments the flavor. I cringe every time I see a customer take the garnish out of their drink. And use some common sense, Vodka is unpalatable without ice as are most neutral grain spirits. The only reason people order without ice is because they're ignorant and think the more ice they get the less alcohol will be in the drink.

Whoa whoa, careful there - somebody will call you a snob.

WoollyRedHat · 29-01-2014 05:54PM

I think beer on ice would be a wonderful if not slightly dangerous idea.

rubadub · 29-01-2014 05:55PM

JayEnnis wrote: »

If you're worried about dilution then why are you drinking your whiskey with ice in it anyway? The second you put ice in a drink it's a time bomb until it becomes a cold slushy mess.

If I drank whiskey & ice I would ask for a separate glass of ice and add my own to my liking. You see lads with jugs of water too. Some might like variation as time goes on too.

JayEnnis wrote: »

You're right about one large cube or ball though but very few bars in Ireland have the mold's to make these.

The 5 vs 1 large standard cubes has the same issue, readily defrosting ice cubes in most instances. There are lots of factors its hard to give a rule which will always apply.

JayEnnis wrote: »

As for your other point the simple fact is that a good bartender know's better than the customer.

Dunno how you can say this. When you yourself already said

JayEnnis wrote: »

I know in the last bar I worked in management specifically said to serve bottled beers with ice. I don't agree with it but that's SOP so it has to be done.

So are you saying when you worked there you were a "bad barman", if so then what you consider bad barmen are all probably over the place.

The customer usually knows what they want, a good bartender should not jump to conclusions and force their opinion on them.

JayEnnis wrote: »

Hendricks gets a cucumber slice, gins with heavy citrus notes get a lime & the ones that err more on the side of juniper get a lemon. There's a reason it's in the drink and it's because it compliments the flavor.

this is the self righteous crap that sickens me. In your apparent training were you told that many people have a total aversion to cucumber? rendering a drink unpalatable with even the slightest hint of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucumber#Taste

Most people report a mild, almost watery flavor or a light melon taste, while a small but vocal minority report a highly repugnant taste—some say almost perfume-like.

If you went to a different class you would now be sneering at others getting it "wrong".

If these additions are so essential you would think the makers would add them.

Lots of spirit drinkers I see at home do not add ice or any of these garnishes. I believe many add it to give apparent added value to the drink, to justify the ludicrous price they might add.

JayEnnis wrote: »

I cringe every time I see a customer take the garnish out of their drink.

I cringe seeing old dirty lemon slices being added by filthy hands by some barman who doesn't even have the decency to ask if its wanted. I also cringe seeing it being removed, buts on the customers behalf, sick that they have to do it after paying over the odds.

JayEnnis wrote: »

And use some common sense, Vodka is unpalatable without ice as are most neutral grain spirits. The only reason people order without ice is because they're ignorant and think the more ice they get the less alcohol will be in the drink..

Many do not want ice as they do not want it diluted, might not want it cold, and might not trust that the ice is hygienic (a few studies done on this showing pub ice can be full of nasties). So yes, use common sense and have the decency to ask if they want something they never requested. Some prefer vodka at room temp too, I prefer it cold, but if the vodka is not cold I would sooner have it with no ice than have the dilution effect. This might come as a shock to you but people have differing palates and ideas of what they like.

Many are drinking it with coke, which would hopefully be cold enough. Most vodka & coke drinkers I know do not add ice at home, they do in pubs since the miserable publicans typically serve pathetic 200ml bottles for €3 a pop, so they are stretching it a bit further by dilution. It also offsets the warm glass it is often served in, fresh from the dishwasher -your "good barman" is not as common as you seem to make out.

JayEnnis wrote: »

Would you tell your accountant how to prepare your accounts? .

Yes, I have seen the CEO in my company tell them. If I was paying them and something was not how I like it of course I would.

JayEnnis wrote: »

Tell a chef how to make their soup?

Yes, people request specific things from chefs all the time. How well a steak is done, more of this, less of that, no cheese, no coriander etc. -Coriander is another taste that some people have a strong aversion to, just incase you've been adding it to some drink and not giving a damn.

JayEnnis · 29-01-2014 06:17PM

Ok I'm done here after this. You seem to know everything about every profession.

-Whiskey with ice? Ask for it or don't ask for it. But if you're not specific be prepared to get the default.

-1 large ice cube can take hours to melt due to surface area.

-I'll take the hit on the glass of ice one making me a "bad bartender" here. Although you can easily dump the ice if the customer doesn't want it. I ask the customer if they want ice in the current bar I'm in.

-If someone finds cucumber repulsive they wouldn't be drinking Hendricks.. Enough said on this point.

-Makers don't add these additions (Well in the case of gin which is just vodka infused with various botanicals.) because a drink can be served a million and one different ways. Why would they limit what can be done with it?

-Any decent bar should be dating they're garnish's and using tongs. If a bartender uses their hands for a garnish I'll rightfully tell him to **** off. I've been doing this years and can honestly say most bartenders don't wash their hands well enough.

-Again, ice is the default for a reason. If you don't want it with your vodka then ask for no ice. Coke may be cold out of the fridge but will soon become tepid.

-Your CEO is educated in accounting obviously. Let me put it another way, would you tell your mechanic how to fix your car because you know how to drive and obviously know better?

(btw I'm often told that simple drinks I make are the best people have had. Just because I can match flavors. You do know a garnish isn't there to look pretty? You're supposed to squeeze it. Don't get me started on cocktails. I know what I'm talking about.)

Of course if a customer asks for something to be done differently I'm more than willing to accommodate it. But if you don't ask for a specific and then give out because you got the default then I think it's a little bit silly.

rubadub · 29-01-2014 06:32PM

JayEnnis wrote: »

You seem to know everything about every profession.

ME!!! ME!?!?! sweet fucking jesus.....

Eutow · 29-01-2014 06:37PM

JayEnnis wrote: »

-If someone finds cucumber repulsive they wouldn't be drinking Hendricks.. Enough said on this point.

Not necessarily. I doubt people drinking it at home will put a slice of cucumber in the glass, and as you said in the piece below, drinks can be served numerous ways.

Also, the standard garnish doesn't mean it should be there. When I tried Blue Moon, that p!ss poor attempt at a Belgian Witbier, it came with a slice of orange. To me, the drink already tasted like a flat Club Orange, it didn't need any more orange taste added to it.

JayEnnis wrote: »

-Makers don't add these additions (Well in the case of gin which is just vodka infused with various botanicals.) because a drink can be served a million and one different ways. Why would they limit what can be done with it?

JayEnnis wrote: »

Let me put it another way, would you tell your mechanic how to fix your car because you know how to drive and obviously know better?

Not really a like for like example. You didn't refer to the example of people in a restaurant telling the chef how they like their steak cooked. A chef might think it's better "medium-rare", but if a customer orders it to be cooked "well done", then the chef cooks it like this.

To get onto your other point, whenever I order a whiskey, a vodka, or a rum and I want it without ice I will always say "without ice", although in regards to vodka, I would never put ice in it.

Beer on ice? ... Come on

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