Incidence of measles, mumps and rubella all increase due to anti-vaccine campaign

B0jangles · 26-01-2014 10:52am

CJC999 wrote: »

Can I ask you a question. Why was the study commissioned in the first place?

Wakefield was paid more than $674,000 by a law firm who were in the process of suing vaccine manufacturers.

http://briandeer.com/wakefield/wakefield-deal.htm

TL/DR he was paid a large sum of money to establish a link between vaccines and autism.

Also, how does one go about proving a negative? Surely it is up to the person making a claim to prove its truth? And just because thousands of people believe something does not make it any way true. Thousands of people belive in UFO's but I've yet to see any proof that aliens have landed on earth.

VVV It's not personal choice if it affects other people; the child has the right to grow up as healthy as possible, the community has a right to be protected from needless risk. For example, I can choose to smoke if I want to, but I have no right to inflict my smoking on other people, hence the smoking ban. VVV

zenno · 26-01-2014 10:53am

No wonder this country is fecked and twisted in a knot so many times it strangles you. All I see is dictators. Wanting to control other folk - parents, because you think they are below you and stupid and dumb and of which has no intelligence of which you want to have control with mandatory/compulsory laws.

You might want to reflect on your own philosophy and previous questions you ask, to understand deeper into the realisation why a parent/person makes such a choice. All this garbage I have read here is just dictat abuse towards folk that have their reasons but are either not happy explaining it here or are non-existant reading this thread.

Sure, soon, in 20 years, probably less, citizens will be forced to do what the government say without question because of people that want everything mandatory, but you will give the government the power from being a servant to the people, the power to fully control your rights to freedom.

emmabrighton · 26-01-2014 10:56am

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

How are you negatively impacting the health of other children? If they are vaccinated they shouldn't be at any risk.

Sorry if this has been said before but what about kids who have to take imune-suppressant drugs or kids with CF and the like... they are being put at risk by people not vaccinating their kids...

Of course I can say this because I vaccinate my son but when I brought my son home from hospital - prem baby - I was told not to let him mix with other kids because his immunity was weak and you dont know who vaccinates their kids and who dont vaccinate :mad:

So my son had to stay home for his first 9 months

Gatling · 26-01-2014 11:00am

Glad to see hippisms alive and well,( fight the man )
What pisses me off is these parents who refuse to vaccinate there kids will then happily send them off to school when they contract an contagious and dangerous disease / infection call it what you like ,
One thing I've heard a lot is young parents saying the likes of mumps ,rubella and so on is something granny would have got but them things are all gone now so no need to worry about them any more

Annasopra · 26-01-2014 11:01am

zenno wrote: »

No wonder this country is fecked and twisted in a knot so many times it strangles you. All I see is dictators. Wanting to control other folk - parents, because you think they are below you and stupid and dumb and of which has no intelligence of which you want to have control with mandatory/compulsory laws.

You might want to reflect on your own philosophy and previous questions you ask, to understand deeper into the realisation why a parent/person makes such a choice. All this garbage I have read here is just dictat abuse towards folk that have their reasons but are either not happy explaining it here or are non-existant reading this thread.

Sure, soon, in 20 years time citizens will be forced to do what the government say without question because of people that want everything mandatory, but you will give the government the power from being a servant to the people, the power to fully control your rights to freedom.

I'd be interested in your answer to my question

B0jangles · 26-01-2014 11:10am

The thing is, if you try to counter the anecdotal crap with actual data - multiple peer-reviewed studies and so on, you run up against the "All the doctors are in the pocket of Big Pharma!" crowd, who reject pretty much anything from the accredited scientific community but accept everything that totally believable sources like "VaXXine$Cau$eAuti$m53" post on Youtube.

26-01-2014 11:28am

Of course parents should vacc, but equally of course it shouldn't be mandatory.
Education is what's needed here, not "do this because we say so"

twowheelsgood · 26-01-2014 11:47am

bluewolf wrote: »

Of course parents should vacc, but equally of course it shouldn't be mandatory.
Education is what's needed here, not "do this because we say so"

Interesting you mention education. Because for our children, that of course IS mandatory. So the state does already dictate to parents what is best for their children in some areas so the notion that making vaccination compulsory would be breaking new ground is bogus.

Parents who elect not to vaccinate their children undoubtedly have their reasons, which are equally undoubtedly, sincerely held. They are just not, in many cases, good reasons.

Look at some of the logic been used on this thread.
“I know of a child who had the vaccination and later became autistic” !!!

Or

“I am keeping an open mind / refusing to vaccinate until it is proven that vaccinations to not lead to autism” !!!

Should we permit parents the option to refuse to have their children educated if they concoct some “logical” argument that education is a cause of some woe that befalls people in later life?

The Black Oil · 26-01-2014 11:58am

This debate is a bit like the climate change one with various camps from moderates to fringe elements. If you're moderately skeptical, that's fair enough. If you're simply there to deny and push misinformation, well, I've little time for you.

Mandatory uptake? Open to question. Having doubts - mandatory education from properly trained health professionals? Yes.

I'm sure there are GPs out there who've experienced parents coming into their practice with whatever conspiracy bollocks they've printed off the web. Thanks to the likes of Jenny McCarthy and Wakefield (that's Mr. Wakefield given his shennanigans, btw) this stuff has gained traction.

lollsangel · 26-01-2014 12:03pm

I have almost 5 year old boy girl twins. Before giving them vaccines I researched the disease they were preventing and the possible side effects of each. I chose to give all but the swine flu jab as I wasnt happy with the amount6nt of info I could get, plus they werent out much so I chose not8t to give it.

I would never tell any other parents they must vaccinate their kids, however if the have something infectious not to mix them with other kids, vaccines are ineffective in someand some immunosuppressed cannot be vaccinated.

pablomakaveli · 26-01-2014 12:05pm

CJC999 wrote: »

I never knew about wakefields paper until I had children of my own but I was aware of people's beliefs that the MMR and autism may be linked as two friends of mine have children who are autistic and it began shortly after their MMR shots. It may be horse**** to you but certainly not to them. Both families have had more children but refused to give them their MMR vaccines because of what happened previously. Are they wrong? Do you know what it's like to live with a severely autistic child?

Do they actually have any evidence for their claims or is it just something they concluded themselves with no evidence?

I'm betting on the latter.

Brian? · 26-01-2014 12:15pm

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

How are you negatively impacting the health of other children? If they are vaccinated they shouldn't be at any risk.

Because they can host the virus and pass it in to younger siblings who haven't been vaccinated.

zenno · 26-01-2014 12:20pm

mango salsa wrote: »

Here's a question for you? If as a parent you refuse to vaccinate your children; couldn't that be a violation of the childs human right to healthcare?

Sorry my friend, I must have saved the following page thread without looking back.

Indeed that is an interesting scenario. Yes, that could be classed - if embedded in newly changed law as a violation of a child's human right. But the parent is the master and the overseer of the rights of their child according to the laws now.

I understand the point you are making, but, if the law was changed to take away the rights of a good parent that refuses to vaccinate their child, wouldn't that be a violation of the parents rights...

Mandatory/Compulsory cannot work in a democracy, well, a real democracy. It just cannot work, and will not be tolerated. As was said, education is the key.

Karl Stein · 26-01-2014 12:20pm

I'm not sure what to think. I believe people should have the right to bodily integrity but also think that public health measures such as clean water, sewerage infrastructure, and mass vaccinations is what makes our existence infinitely more advanced than the other animals.

SpaceTime · 26-01-2014 12:28pm

I wonder if your child were badly damaged by a disease because you had refused to vaccinate them would they then have grounds to sue you later on?

Some of the diseases vaccines prevent and have basically eradicated are pretty awful and can do serious life long damage eg Polio could leave someone paralysed and disabled.

26-01-2014 12:28pm

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Should we permit parents the option to refuse to have their children educated if they concoct some “logical” argument that education is a cause of some woe that befalls people in later life?

Like getting beaten or indoctrinated?
In any case parents can educate their kids at home if they want

angelfire9 · 26-01-2014 12:32pm

This just came up in my FB feed

twowheelsgood · 26-01-2014 12:44pm

bluewolf wrote: »

Like getting beaten or indoctrinated?
In any case parents can educate their kids at home if they want

They may educate their children at home but they do not have the option not to educate them at all, even if they genuinely have fears about indoctrination, or anything else.

So the point remains. The state does not give parents absolutely autonomy is deciding what’s best for their children.

There is a line. Things like basic welfare and education are not within the gift of parents to give or withhold. Religious indoctrination (to borrow your word!) is their call (though some think it should not be). But if these religious convictions compromise the child’s welfare (e.g. no to blood transfusions) then this is back on the “not the parents call” side of the line.

So the question in relation to vaccination asks which side of the line it should be. For me, there is a strong a case for making them mandatory as there is for making education mandatory. Mind, I don’t think it will happen any time soon.

minidazzler · 26-01-2014 12:46pm

lynski wrote: »

Dont think this is possible in Ireland, or it is very dificult to achieve.

i dont like the tone of this thread, parents who choose not to vaccinate are not stupid, they are usually quite well inormed and making decisions based on their children and their childrens health. a one size fits all vaccine does not take individual immune systems into account. a child who has been compromised immunolically by any number of diferent reasosn could have a reaction that is unexpected.
Dont demonise until you have walked in someones shoes or at least considered their pov.

**** their point of view. While I don't believe the state should force vaccinations, I do believe parents who don't vaccinate their kids are irresponsible morons. They usually are NOT quite well informed, given they usually trot out the Autism line, which is, and I cannot overstate this, it IS BULLSHIT

zenno wrote: »

It's not acceptable for you, or any-one else to dictate what another person should do. You, and others, with the same suggestion have no right to interfere or look for force mandatory vaccinations, it stands with the person/parent as to decide the choice. Any-one that takes this 'right to choose' away from a person is nothing but a fascist.

I agree they shouldn't be forced, but I will look down on them as sh1tty parents who are wholly irresponsible.

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

Show me one because I have been looking a long time and haven't found one single study that says irrefutably that vaccines do not cause autism. I found plenty that said there was no evidence that they do but none saying that they definitely don't. Two completely different things.

Prove to me something doesn't exist..... it's impossible to do. Which is why the Scientific Method doesn't allow it. You can only prove something does exist. But, that said, there is no fcuking link.

zenno wrote: »

You would swear it was the Black Death we are dealing with here.

Every-one that has children wants what's best for them, but I think you should look more closely as to find out why such folk don't want to vaccinate their children.

Looking closely, i'd presume that it's because they are ill-informed nitwits

they aren't thinking of their specific childs health and whether the vaccine is tailor made for that kid, they are thinking "if this kid gets fcuked it'll be hard to take care of them". But the kid won't be fcuked, it does the opposite.

CJC999 wrote: »

I never knew about wakefields paper until I had children of my own but I was aware of people's beliefs that the MMR and autism may be linked as two friends of mine have children who are autistic and it began shortly after their MMR shots. It may be horse**** to you but certainly not to them. Both families have had more children but refused to give them their MMR vaccines because of what happened previously. Are they wrong? Do you know what it's like to live with a severely autistic child?
.

And if those kids gets a really fcuking horrible disease, because the parents are ill-informed twats who REALLY pays the price? The kid could dies or gets fcuked for life, because the parents are too lazy to do some real research and to listen to REAL doctors.

But i know someone it happened to is a cop-out for use by people who don't understand how the world works. anecdotal evidence is not worth the paper it's written on

iguana · 26-01-2014 12:52pm

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Interesting you mention education. Because for our children, that of course IS mandatory. So the state does already dictate to parents what is best for their children in some areas so the notion that making vaccination compulsory would be breaking new ground is bogus.

Wrong. The Irish Constitution actually specifically states that the parent is the child's primary educator and while every child is entitled to a school place the parent chooses whether or not to send them to school.

MilanPan!c · 26-01-2014 12:54pm

KnotABother wrote: »

Yes and thus why it should be mandatory! Why do you think they go in to schools to vaccinate them?

Vaccination and medicine has almost killed of diseases like Polio and TB that used to killed 1000s of kids every year. So yes medicine can get control over disease. If a child cannot be vaccinated it is usually because their immune system is suppressed or weak. In that case they will no be around other kids or will have very limited exposure to other children for fear they will get a simple cough or cold and die.

This is the most interesting part.....if I chose to beat and molest my kids nobody should have an opinion on it? If I choose to not feed them nobody should have an opinion? Of course people will have an opinion, so what I'm saying is that I am of the opinion that people should not be allowed send their kids to school if they may be carrying diseases that can harm other kids.

If people do not want to vaccinate then that is their choice but their kids should not be allowed put the health of other kids at risk.

Sure, if I choose to give my 13/yo a bunch of crystal meth and a loaded gun, then send him to school. That's MY business.

Oh wait. No.

twowheelsgood · 26-01-2014 12:58pm

iguana wrote: »

Wrong. The Irish Constitution actually specifically states that the parent is the child's primary educator and while every child is entitled to a school place the parent chooses whether or not to send them to school.

I didn’t mention school. True, it is not obligatory that children go to school. It is that they are educated.

Drakares · 26-01-2014 1:00pm

These people are responsible for thousands of deaths every year. There have been THREE extensive, very very very extensive studies by WHO in collaboration with independent scientists that concluded with no evidence linking these vaccines to autism. Morons are very quick to jump on the bandwagon without being remotely qualified to speak on the issue.

MilanPan!c · 26-01-2014 1:01pm

iguana wrote: »

Wrong. The Irish Constitution actually specifically states that the parent is the child's primary educator and while every child is entitled to a school place the parent chooses whether or not to send them to school.

That's a half-truth at best.

Parents are forced to educate their children, either through mandatory schools or states monitored home schools.

The state has broad scope to shut down a home school and strike it off the register.

At that point a parent COULD pay for private education, but again that school would be under the control of the state - to a large degree.

zenno · 26-01-2014 1:01pm

twowheelsgood wrote: »

They may educate their children at home but they do not have the option not to educate them at all, even if they genuinely have fears about indoctrination, or anything else.

So the point remains. The state does not give parents absolutely autonomy is deciding what’s best for their children.

There is a line. Things like basic welfare and education are not within the gift of parents to give or withhold. Religious indoctrination (to borrow your word!) is their call (though some think it should not be). But if these religious convictions compromise the child’s welfare (e.g. no to blood transfusions) then this is back on the “not the parents call” side of the line.

So the question in relation to vaccination asks which side of the line it should be. For me, there is a strong a case for making them mandatory as there is for making education mandatory. Mind, I don’t think it will happen any time soon.

You can bet your bottom dollar it will not happen any time soon. It will never happen as long as you are intertwined in the EU, according to human rights, and the right to choose freely. I love being part of the EU.

MilanPan!c · 26-01-2014 1:03pm

twowheelsgood wrote: »

I didn’t mention school. True, it is not obligatory that children go to school. It is that they are educated.

It's mandatory that a child be educated in a state approved environment.

twowheelsgood · 26-01-2014 1:04pm

zenno wrote: »

You can bet your bottom dollar it will not happen any time soon. It will never happen as long as you are intertwined in the EU, according to human rights, and the right to choose freely. I love being part of the EU.

So do you think the requirement that children be educated (not sent to school!) be done away with too?

SpaceTime · 26-01-2014 1:06pm

A friend of mine was recently told by a 'friend' that she was unfit to have children because she argued that she would definitely vaccinate her kids.

There are some unbelievably unscientific, illogical, conspiracy theorists out there with quite zealot-like approaches to life where nobody can have a rational discussion with them.

I'm quite glad I was vaccinated and didn't get any of the horrendous illnesses that killed many of my grandmother's siblings and contemporaries back before WWII!

26-01-2014 1:06pm

So because the govt have some power already we should give them more
Great argument

MilanPan!c · 26-01-2014 1:08pm

bluewolf wrote: »

So because the govt have some power already we should give them more
Great argument

It makes more sense than the "I'm a paranoid nut so I get to potentially harm my children and society" argument.

26-01-2014 1:09pm

MilanPan!c wrote: »

It makes more sense than the "I'm a paranoid nut so I get to potentially harm my children and society" argument.

I'm pretty sure anyone on this thread against mandatory vacc is equally in favour of actually vacc in the first place and would think it stupid not to
Doesn't mean it needs to be a law

Friend Computer · 26-01-2014 1:12pm

bluewolf wrote: »

Of course parents should vacc, but equally of course it shouldn't be mandatory.
Education is what's needed here, not "do this because we say so"

As we've seen on this thread there are people who just aren't interested in educating themselves or being informed. They want to wallow in their own ignorance.

Fine. But we already accept the state can step in to protect children, why should this be any different? Children aren't capable of choosing what's in their own best interests which is why others (parents or legal guardians, typically) have to do it for them.

zenno · 26-01-2014 1:12pm

twowheelsgood wrote: »

So do you think the requirement that children be educated (not sent to school!) be done away with too?

That is irrelevant to the topic at hand. This is not about the educational system.

twowheelsgood · 26-01-2014 1:27pm

zenno wrote: »

That is irrelevant to the topic at hand. This is not about the educational system.

Not really. Your “human rights” position, if I understand you correctly, is that parents should have the right to decide what is best for their children in relation to vaccines. So if you will afford them this right, on what basis can you deny them the right to choose if their children will be educated?

zenno · 26-01-2014 1:37pm

Friend Computer wrote: »

As we've seen on this thread there are people who just aren't interested in educating themselves or being informed. They want to wallow in their own ignorance.

Fine. But we already accept the state can step in to protect children, why should this be any different? Children aren't capable of choosing what's in their own best interests which is why others (parents or legal guardians, typically) have to do it for them.

Your comment above seems to make out that most parents are idiots, I question your status.

You, and some previous cohorts, dictate that what you want introduced "mandatory" be justified because of your self-belief, well pal, it's being ad nauseum repeated here. You cannot over-throw your rattle out of the pram to suit your ideals when it comes to other parent intelligences.

Get the heck down off that high horse dictating.

Goodbye, I've read enough dictatorism for one night.

For parents that are unsure about vaccines, I, and I'm sure most genuine folk here would like for you to spend some time investigating the vaccines with your doctor and online professionally to make up your mind.

We can blab on here all year about it, but it is up to you, the parent, to educate yourself on all matters of vaccinations. There are very dodgy sites online that will give astounding falsities, just stick to the scientific journals and make your own mind up.

MilanPan!c · 26-01-2014 1:38pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm pretty sure anyone on this thread against mandatory vacc is equally in favour of actually vacc in the first place and would think it stupid not to
Doesn't mean it needs to be a law

The problem is this:

Laws aren't made for reasonable people.

They're made to protect society from unreasonable people.

As you point out, this law wouldn't have any impact on the vast majority.

Only on the fringer nutcases.

_Redzer_ · 26-01-2014 1:39pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm pretty sure anyone on this thread against mandatory vacc is equally in favour of actually vacc in the first place and would think it stupid not to
Doesn't mean it needs to be a law

Why not?

There's global initiatives to eradicate diseases like polio and measles. The deadline for polio was 2000 and it was missed, the deadline for measles is sometime in the future. The vaccination programme for smallpox was mandatory and as a result it's been eradicated.

Those who choose not to vaccinate their children do so out of ignorance and are only creating incubators for the disease. It is in the collective interest of humankind to wipe out any disease we can, that's why any individual who opposes without good reason should be superseded because it stands in the way of the greater good of our race.

26-01-2014 1:40pm

_Redzer_ wrote: »

that's why any individual who opposes without good reason should be superseded because it stands in the way of the greater good of our race.

Jesus

I have no idea what to even say to that, so I'm just going to reiterate that I think it should be overcome with education

MilanPan!c · 26-01-2014 1:42pm

zenno wrote: »

Your comment above seems to make out that most parents are idiots, I question your status.

You, and some previous cohorts, dictate that what you want introduced "mandatory" be justified because of your self-belief, well pal, it's being ad nauseum repeated here. You cannot over-throw your rattle out of the pram to suit your ideals when it comes to other parent intelligences.

Get the heck down off that high horse dictating.

Goodbye, I've read enough dictatorism for one night.

For parents that are unsure about vaccines, I, and I'm sure most genuine folk here would like for you to spend some time investigating the vaccines with your doctor and online professionally to make up your mind.

We can blab on here all year about it, but it is up to you, the parent, to educate yourself on all matters of vaccinations. There are very dodgy sites online that will give astounding falsities, just stick to the scientific journals and make your own mind up.

Sorry if I too do not trust the sort of people that read and spread Wakefield and the rest, to make rational decisions for the whole of society.

MilanPan!c · 26-01-2014 1:44pm

bluewolf wrote: »

Jesus

I have no idea what to even say to that, so I'm just going to reiterate that I think it should be overcome with education

The internet is proving to be more persuasive than the government - to many people.

Self-education is also not a great answer when there's endless conmen online making thousands of lying and scaring the gullible and fearful.

This issue is to important to leave up to people just naturally copping on.

zenno · 26-01-2014 1:50pm

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Not really. Your “human rights” position, if I understand you correctly, is that parents should have the right to decide what is best for their children in relation to vaccines. So if you will afford them this right, on what basis can you deny them the right to choose if their children will be educated?

@ twowheelsgood

Correct, without question.

Let me just say this... every human being entering this world will be educated, because this is the natural order, it is paramount, and naturally it takes it's course no matter what country you are in. Not one person would allow a child not to be educated, it's deeply inside us all to teach others no matter what.

The human rights issue, as was said... 'the right to choose' is also paramount whether we like it or not, once the rights of a person is not abused within governed law.

My name is URL · 26-01-2014 1:51pm

MilanPan!c wrote: »

The internet is proving to be more persuasive than the government - to many people.

Self-education is also not a great answer when there's endless conmen online making thousands of lying and scaring the gullible and fearful.

This issue is to important to leave up to people just naturally copping on.

So how would you propose that it's actually made mandatory, then? What would the punishment be for refusing? Will a van pull up outside your home, health providers come in and restrain you while your child is put through the trauma of being forcibly injected?

Maybe the kids should just be taken from the parents and put in care? Heavy fines perhaps, or barred from accessing other types of healthcare?

It's a stupid idea that would do more harm than good. The small minority of people who flatly refuse to be vaccinated need to be educated about why vaccination is important, not just for them, but for the wider population. Forcing people into doing something which they simply don't understand would be counter-productive, and cause even more people to become distrustful of the medical industry.

Corkfeen · 26-01-2014 1:52pm

bluewolf wrote: »

Jesus

I have no idea what to even say to that, so I'm just going to reiterate that I think it should be overcome with education

Think I'm siding with you on this tbh. The best option is probably to overhaul the entire education side of things alongside pointing out the fact that Wakefield was discredited and found to be working for single jab vaccine companies. An explanation on the importance of a herd immunity and the dangers of it being damaged.

_Redzer_ · 26-01-2014 1:55pm

bluewolf wrote: »

Jesus

I have no idea what to even say to that, so I'm just going to reiterate that I think it should be overcome with education

It still doesn't seem to shift some conspiracists' views who don't trust any data to the contrary of their views, no matter what, so these people should be overruled. In an ideal world if their choices didn't affect anyone else besides their children then they can do what they like to them, but that's not the case, so they shouldn't be pandered to.

My views in this might seem harsh, but if we want to eradicate disease, an active and aggressive approach will see it done effectively, not a passive one. Polio could've been eliminated had it gone through such vigorous initiatives as smallpox did.

Friend Computer · 26-01-2014 2:01pm

zenno wrote: »

Your comment above seems to make out that most parents are idiots, I question your status.

What? Did you quote the wrong post? Because nowhere in mine did I state or intimate what you said.

I won't hide that I've a low opinion of the, few thankfully, here who remain steadfastly ignorant in the face of people showing there's no link between the vaccine and autism. If they want to believe that they're perfectly entitled to but I do not believe for one second that they should be allowed to put their kids at risk because of it.

The state should step in to protect the vulnerable from people who put them at risk.

SpaceTime · 26-01-2014 2:08pm

The problem with not immunising is that you're also putting other children, adults and also pregnant women at risk.

Many of the diseases are wiped out by maintaining a high level of community immunity. So there is nobody with active disease and it does not get spread and effectively dies out. If its still active it gets to spread and mutate and adapt potentially rendering our immunity useless!

It's totally irrational, non science and puts your kids and the whole community at risk when you don't immunise.

I think governments' duty is to act in the interest of the greater good.

MilanPan!c · 26-01-2014 2:08pm

My name is URL wrote: »

So how would you propose that it's actually made mandatory, then? What would the punishment be for refusing? Will a van pull up outside your home, health providers come in and restrain you while your child is put through the trauma of being forcibly injected?

Maybe the kids should just be taken from the parents and put in care? Heavy fines perhaps, or barred from accessing other types of healthcare?

It's a stupid idea that would do more harm than good. The small minority of people who flatly refuse to be vaccinated need to be educated about why vaccination is important, not just for them, but for the wider population. Forcing people into doing something which they simply don't understand would be counter-productive, and cause even more people to become distrustful of the medical industry.

Parents are infrequently but not never relieved of their children if they can't look after them.

This is the same sort of situation.

The tools and structure is already in place.

MilanPan!c · 26-01-2014 2:09pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

The problem with not immunising is that you're also putting other children, adults and also pregnant women at risk.

Many of the diseases are wiped out by maintaining a high level of community immunity. So there is nobody with active disease and it does not get spread and effectively dies out. If its still active it gets to spread and mutate and adapt potentially rendering our immunity useless!

It's totally irrational, non science and puts your kids and the whole community at risk when you don't immunise.

I think governments' duty is to act in the interest of the greater good.

This is it exactly.

You have no RIGHT to endangering strangers.

_Redzer_ · 26-01-2014 2:10pm

Ensuring the health of the human race>>>> some ignorant parent.

The issue of human rights here is nonexistent if they're a breach of safety to everyone because of their actions.

WhatNowForUs? · 26-01-2014 2:16pm

bluewolf wrote: »

Of course parents should vacc, but equally of course it shouldn't be mandatory.
Education is what's needed here, not "do this because we say so"

But how can you educate against the argument of "Show me studies that show vaccines are 100% safe" or how do you educate people on correlation does not equal causation when its not something that can be taught over a commercial on a TV screen.

Incidence of measles, mumps and rubella all increase due to anti-vaccine campaign

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