OK, so you're an atheist. What next?

Delirium · 24-01-2014 08:57AM

J C wrote: »

Mercy and pardon cannot be extended to a gulty person who doesn't ask for them ... as it wouldn't be just to do so.
That is why prisoners who refuse to admit their crimes and ask for pardon continue to languish in jail long after they could be released on parole.
In the case of 'lifers' who do this ... it can mean that they spend their entire lives in prison.

Nonsense. A judge can extend mercy to a defendant without being asked for mercy, excluding mandatory minimum crimes.

But I guess you're god isn't infinitely merciful since he can't even do what most average humans can.

Brian Shanahan · 24-01-2014 11:44AM

bumper234 wrote: »

And forgiving don't forget forgiving :rolleyes:

You gotta love JC, giving his thanks to the posts that are giving him the metaphorical kick in the ribs.

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Atheists can't use 'faith' as an alternative for evidence when making fantastical claims and expect to be taken seriously.

Neither can the religious, but that doesn't stop them from trying.

Corkfeen · 24-01-2014 11:48AM

J C wrote: »

It wouldn't be infinitely merciful to impose mercy on somebody who doesn't want it ... and it certainly wouldn't be infinitely just.

So limited mercy rather than infinite.

Brian Shanahan · 24-01-2014 01:13PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

A Toyota Ellipsis. And very nice too! Comes with built-in biscuits and free servicing for the first 2000 years.

I got the Suzuki Escudo Pike's Peak edition. Nyer, nyer, ne, nyer, nyer!

PopePalpatine · 24-01-2014 01:42PM

As a car nut, I never thought I'd see the Suzuki Escudo Pikes Peak Version referenced in A&A. :pac:

Brian Shanahan · 24-01-2014 03:48PM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

As a car nut, I never thought I'd see the Suzuki Escudo Pikes Peak Version referenced in A&A. :pac:

Used play the hell out of Gran Tourismo 2 on the PS2 back in the day.

Corkfeen · 24-01-2014 03:55PM

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Used play the hell out of Gran Tourismo 2 on the PS2 back in the day.

Remember the Skyline fondly. Made the Sunday Cup delightful.

J C · 24-01-2014 10:53PM

DJumbo brekfast roll wrote: »

Ned Flanders: Let's thank the Lord for another beautiful day.
Superintendent Chalmers: "Thank the Lord"? That sounded like a prayer. A prayer in a public school. God has no place within these walls, just like facts don't have a place within an organized religion.

... a perfect example of gross religious intolerance in action in public schools ... and ironically all done under a banner of so-called 'pluralism' and 'diversity' ... that respects everything except Christianity.:(

The Black Oil · 24-01-2014 11:01PM

You realise a show like The Simpsons pokes fun at everything, right?

Turtwig · 24-01-2014 11:02PM

J C wrote: »

... a perfect example of gross religious intolerance in action in public schools ... and ironically all done under a banner of so-called 'pluralism' and 'diversity' ... that respects everything except Christianity.:(

J C · 24-01-2014 11:16PM

miss no stars wrote: »

Storm in a teacup and very badly handled.

Let's try to remember the child is only six years old.

The teacher should have said something along the lines of "Hey Brynn, could you just hold up there a second and come over to my desk? I have a question for you"

Then the teacher could have found out what she planned to say, shown her how to change it so that she wasn't reciting directly and was just informing people of her family tradition (it was only a 1 minute speech), sent her to her desk to write out what she wanted to say and brought her up after the next child. Instead he was curt with a kid who didn't understand what she had done wrong and why she wasn't allowed talk about her family traditions but everyone else was.

Why all this censorship? This is a six year old child proclaiming her faith in Jesus Christ ... and the 'Secularists' (or whatever they call themselves) cannot stand the mention of Jesus Christ.
Why should she have to have her 1 minute contribution edited by a teacher, like some criminal having his mail censored?

miss no stars wrote: »

I can really understand why people are upset over this, she's just a kid. She was asked to bring in something about her family traditions at Christmas and she did. Christmas is very much intertwined with Christianity and the birth of Christ. That's well recognized. It's also a time for family and mid-winter celebration, but it's hard to deny the Christian involvement in Christmas! Hence why it's celebrated in countries that are traditionally Christian but not in those that traditionally aren't.

The fault here lies with the teacher. He was right to stop her but absolutely wrong in how he went about it. I feel sorry for the kid. Not for the parents, but for the kid.

This is no 'storm in a teacup' ... it's typical of the gross intolerance of the pseudo-liberals to everybody except those who agree with them!!

... this is a six year old girl ... and this is how a Secular School treats her!!!

If she was talking about the demi-gods of Secularism, like Darwin or Sagan ... she wouldn't be told so brutally to 'shut up' ... she'd be allowed to expand to her heart's content.:(

As Christ clearly has no place in secular schools ... neither do Christians ... we need our own schools ... so that none of our children have to suffer such humiliation.

Outrageous doesn't even begin to describe such intolerance ... perpetrated on a defenseless young child!!!

... and then, to add insult to injury, you guys have the audacity to accuse her good Christian parents of child abuse!!!:(

J C · 24-01-2014 11:45PM

robindch wrote: »

While I disagree with the term "abuse" which has unpleasant overtones,

The phrase that was actually used was child abuse ... and you know quite well that the term 'child abuse' is a very specific and very serious criminal allegation effectively amounting to child rape ... one of the most henious crimes imaginable.

Your talk of 'unpleasant overtones' grossly understates the seriousness of the totally unfounded and deeply prejudicial allegation levelled at these good Christian parents by 'the monkey'.

robindch wrote: »

it's still both disgraceful and dishonest that parents will willfully lie to their children about the world, when they're too young and too naive to be able to defend themselves against the dishonesty.

The transmission of the Christian Faith to our children isn't in any way disgraceful or dishonest ... and Christian parents don't lie to their children when they talk about Jesus Christ to them ... and your suggestion that this is the case amounts to gross religious intolerance.

robindch wrote: »

It would be better to refer to it as an abuse of trust, or emotional and intellectual abuse.

It's none of these things.:(
... but at least this should leave all Christian parents in no doubt that no respect will be shown to their beliefs or their children's faith, in any school run by people with views like the ones you have just expressed.

I sincerely hope that the Roman Catholics of Ireland are reading this ... and taking note!!!

Delirium · 24-01-2014 11:56PM

J C wrote: »

The phrase that was actually used was child abuse ... and you know quite well that the term 'child abuse' is a very specific and very serious criminal allegation effectively amounting to child rape ... one of the most henious crimes imaginable.

that's not entirely correct. Child rape is one form of child abuse, another would be physically beating a child. Telling a child they are worthless/burden etc. is another form of child abuse, albeit in this case mental child abuse.

Czarcasm · 25-01-2014 12:05AM

J C wrote: »

Why all this censorship? This is a six year old child proclaiming her faith in Jesus Christ ... and the 'Secularists' (or whatever they call themselves) cannot stand the mention of Jesus Christ.
Why should she have to have her 1 minute contribution edited by a teacher, like some criminal having his mail censored?

And the 'Christians' (or whatever they call themselves) get all bent out of shape about misguided perceptions of a breach of their first amendment rights based on their misreading of the constitution which prohibits the promotion of religion in public schools.

This is no 'storm in a teacup' ... it's typical of the gross intolerance of the pseudo-liberals to everybody except those who agree with them!!

... this is a six year old girl ... and this is how a Secular School treats her!!!

No, it's typical of a public school with a secular ethos. Let's try and at least keep things in perspective.

If she was talking about the demi-Gods of Secularism, like Darwin or Sagan ... she wouldn't be told so brutally to 'shut up' ... she'd be allowed to expand to her heart's content.:(

She would, but what she wouldn't be allowed do in the classroom with a captive audience is demote religion. She could give it welly in the school playground either way (from a religious or secular point of view), but she'd have to zip her lip in the classroom.

As Christ clearly has no place in secular schools ... neither do Christians ... we need our own schools ... so that none of our children have to suffer such humiliation.

Children attend public schools to be educated, not indoctrinated. If you're trying to parody secularist ideology and opinion relating to the educational system in Ireland, you're doing a very poor job.

Outrageous doesn't even begin to describe such intolerance ... perpetrated on a defenseless young child!!!

... and then, to add insult to injury, you guys have the audacity to accuse her good Christian parents of child abuse!!!:(

What's actually insulting is how you've tried to twist this story to claim religious persecution when it's nothing of the sort. The only angle for religious persecution is the child quoting John 3:16 which has nothing to do with Christmas traditions.

You honestly don't see an issue with a six year old child preaching to her classmates that they must all die? Because that's the only part a six year old child's mind would focus on.

Czarcasm · 25-01-2014 12:24AM

J C wrote: »

I sincerely hope that the Roman Catholics of Ireland are reading this ... and taking note!!!

I'm reading it alright, and the meme that Jernal posted earlier isn't that far off where I am right now after reading your posts tbh.

J C · 25-01-2014 12:38AM

The Black Oil wrote: »

I am often I suspicious of how these stories are picked up, particularly when on organisation like Advocates for Faith and Freedom get on board. Seems a touch convenient. They seem little more than outrage fodder cheered on by the likes of Fox News, and there may be more going on than what's reported. Teacher may have messed up, but let's take it easy with the persecution card.

Whatever about the original story ... the reaction on this thread has been very illuminating indeed ... and like somebody said previously ... all on permanent public record.

It won't make very nice reading for your grandchildren guys!!!

J C · 25-01-2014 12:44AM

Keep at it guys ... you're doing a great job at talking yourselves out of ever being let next nigh or near the Christian children of Ireland .. or their schools.

J C · 25-01-2014 12:57AM

Why was this posting string move here?

It was all bang on the topic ... which is the story about how a six year old Christian girl was humiliated and her talk about her faith in Jesus Christ censored in a Secular school.

J C · 25-01-2014 12:58AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Please expand on your points.

Have a look at what you guys have said ... and tell me you're proud of it.

obplayer · 25-01-2014 01:06AM

J C wrote: »

Have a look at what you guys have said ... and tell me you're proud of it.

I'm proud that so much sense reason and logic has been posted in response to your nonsensical rants.

J C · 25-01-2014 01:13AM

obplayer wrote: »

I'm proud that so much sense reason and logic has been posted in response to your nonsensical rants.

The 'charge of the light brigade' comes to mind!!!

I can tell you that your Secular 'logic' dressed up as naked anti-Christian intolerance isn't 'playing' very well with the 90% of parents in Ireland who are Christian ... and deciding which schools they are going to entrust the education of their precious children to!!!

... supporting the humiliation of a six year old girl is a real 'winner' allright guys!!:rolleyes:

I have to say that I'm very shocked at what I've seen on this thread ... I have put the routine hostility shown to me down to my Creationism (and I'm used to this) ...
... but here is the humiliation of a six year old Christian child with a little Chrismas project that she was asked to present to her class ... and you guys are justifying this ... and calling not only her parents ... but all Christian parents child abusers.

Czarcasm · 25-01-2014 01:43AM

J C wrote: »

I have to say that I'm very shocked at what I've seen on this thread ... I have put the routine hostility shown to me down to my Creationism (and I'm used to this) ...
... but here is the humiliation of a six year old Christian child with a little Chrismas project that she was asked to present to her class ... and you guys are justifying this ... and calling not only her parents ... but all Christian parents child abusers.

Meanwhile, back in the real world -

You don't think the parents set the child up to be a scapegoat? Because that's what it looks like to me. The child's parents would have been aware of the school's secular ethos and yet instead of helping her with her homework, they manipulated her into making a point of her beliefs which they knew would conflict with school policy.

They knew what they were doing, and they used their own child to do it. I'd call that fairly insidious behaviour. I think your subjective submission to your faith is preventing you from approaching the incident from any sort of an objective viewpoint.

obplayer · 25-01-2014 01:57AM

J C wrote: »

The 'charge of the light brigade' comes to mind!!!

I can tell you that your Secular 'logic' dressed up as naked anti-Christian intolerance isn't 'playing' very well with the 90% of parents in Ireland who are Christian ....

Our secular logic is just that, logic. Not anti-Christian, just anti-religious, or more accurately anti un-reason, anti-lack of sense, anti-brainwashing from birth by terrifying fairy tales of burning forever. As for your 90% of parents being Christian that has already been debunked. What people put on a form shoved through their door and what they do in real life are different. Most people in Ireland do no go to mass, how does this make them Christians? Finally, given your repeated ignoring of my requests for proof of your 'scientific qualifications', I propose that you now be addressed as 'That big fat liar!' Unless mods object of course.

J C · 25-01-2014 02:02AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Meanwhile, back in the real world -

You don't think the parents set the child up to be a scapegoat? Because that's what it looks like to me. The child's parents would have been aware of the school's secular ethos and yet instead of helping her with her homework, they manipulated her into making a point of her beliefs which they knew would conflict with school policy.

They knew what they were doing, and they used their own child to do it. I'd call that fairly insidious behaviour. I think your subjective submission to your faith is preventing you from approaching the incident from any sort of an objective viewpoint.

I am clinically objective in everything I do and say ... you guys could do with taking a 'leaf out of my book' in this regard.

To answer your question, I know nothing of this case, only what I'm reading.

The facts are quite damning whatever way you look at it ... and deeply embarassing for any Secularist worthy of the name.
... but amazingly, this isn't how things have panned out on this thread ...
... everybody decided to justify the humiliation of this young child ... and to dig an even deeper hole for themselves, they threw in a completely unfounded allegation of child abuse against the parents involved ... and when challenged on this they went the 'whole hog' and 'pushed the Nuclear Button' on the credibility of Secularism, by accusing all Christian parents and guardians of being disgraceful and dishonest liars who abuse the trust of their children by engaging in emotional and intellectual abuse.

I don't know about you ... but I wouldn't like to identify myself as a Secularist to a Christian parent who had read this stuff about themselves, at the next school meeting ... if I didn't completely dissociate myself from it ... and if I couldn't point to even one Secularist on this thread who didn't do likewise.

J C · 25-01-2014 02:13AM

obplayer wrote: »

Our secular logic is just that, logic. Not anti-Christian, just anti-religious, or more accurately anti un-reason, anti-lack of sense, anti-brainwashing from birth by terrifying fairy tales of burning forever.

Just a long-winded and completely biased way of saying you're anti-Christian to the core!!

obplayer wrote: »

As for your 90% of parents being Christian that has already been debunked. What people put on a form shoved through their door and what they do in real life are different. Most people in Ireland do no go to mass, how does this make them Christians? Finally, given your repeated ignoring of my requests for proof of your 'scientific qualifications', I propose that you now be addressed as 'That big fat liar!' Unless mods object of course.

... many Christians may no longer go regularly to church ... but when you guys start justifying humiliating a six year old girl telling her version of the Christmas story to her class in school ... I'd say to a man (and a woman) they're as horrified as I am.
These people are not fools ... and they can see that religious intolerance has created serious problems in the past ... and they're not about to support Secularists in pushing intolerance against themselves and their children, now that it has thankfully largely ended between religions themselves!!!

obplayer · 25-01-2014 02:16AM

J C wrote: »

I sincerely hope that the Roman Catholics of Ireland are reading this ... and taking note!!!

To write down all our names and send their octogenarian priests, because there are few young priests, to tell us off? Sorry, the days when a priest could bang on your door and dictate your life are long gone. And why can't you post without bold and exclamation marks all the time? Is that something else you were taught in bible class?

obplayer · 25-01-2014 02:23AM

J C wrote: »

Just a long-winded and completely biased way of saying you're anti-Christian to the core!!
Can you not read posts? I said anti-religious. Christianity is not in fact the only religion in the world.

... I'd say to a man (and a woman) they're as horrified as I am.
You would be wrong because
These people are not fools ... ,

now that it has thankfully ended between religions themselves!!!
What! when people all over the world are being killed because they believe in the wrong imaginary friend?

QUOTE]

Hotblack Desiato · 25-01-2014 02:25AM

I thought it would have been multicoloured Comic Sans.

Your arguments are thoroughly laughable J C, but do carry on.

There is still no credible source for the allegations in the OP.

Czarcasm · 25-01-2014 02:27AM

J C wrote: »

I am clinically objective in everything I do and say ...

I stopped reading there. There was no point in reading any further when you're descending to telling outright, blatant lies. You've been anything BUT objective J C and time and again your posts have said as much. It's not because of your Creationist beliefs that people can't take you seriously (as you alluded to suggesting you were being persecuted earlier on in this thread), it is in fact because your posts are full of ridiculous fallacies, outrageous scenarios, inability to stick to the point, hell, your inability to actually MAKE a point is probably what makes your posts so frustratingly hard to decipher, it's like looking for something that just isn't there!

obplayer · 25-01-2014 02:30AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

I stopped reading there. There was no point in reading any further when you're descending to telling outright, blatant lies. You've been anything BUT objective J C and time and again your posts have said as much. It's not because of your Creationist beliefs that people can't take you seriously (as you alluded to suggesting you were being persecuted earlier on in this thread), it is in fact because your posts are full of ridiculous fallacies, outrageous scenarios, inability to stick to the point, hell, your inability to actually MAKE a point is probably what makes your posts so frustratingly hard to decipher, it's like looking for something that just isn't there!

Like his imaginary friend indeed.

OK, so you're an atheist. What next?

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