OK, so you're an atheist. What next?

AerynSun

There's an interesting article on the Huffington Post's Politics Blog, that highlights the ways atheism is a hidden inequality issue - worth having a read! It's focused on the situation in the US, but some of it could well be relevant for atheists in Ireland?

What say the people of A&A? Have you experienced any of the listed inequalities as a result of your beliefs (or lack thereof, as the case may be)?

EDIT: I'm asking mainly because as a recently-Catholic-now-agnostic, I have a feeling I'm in for a bumpy ride... getting the hang of being 'outside' of the religious fold! What kind of stuff should I expect?

lazygal

School is the big one for us. A perfectly good taxpayer funded school with all mod cons is literally two minutes from our doorstep but is Catholic and while a good school in most respects has the kids doing indoctrination during school hours. We'll get a place there if we want but what'll our children do during preparation for communion/confirmation? Do we let them do the nativity play every other child will be in? What do we do if the parish priest calls in for a chat? What do they do during the indoctrination portions of the day? These are all things we wouldn't even have to consider if we were believers.


Also state marriage ceremonies are only Monday to Friday. If you want a civil ceremony in Ireland you can't have one on weekends. This doesn't sound like a hassle but it is. If you want to get married in a church, no problem! Come on down, even if you're as a la carte as they come. At least now there's the option of a legal humanist ceremony (we had to do our legal and humanist ones on different days).

There's also the whole oath taking malarky required of judges and the president - I also remember seeing a row of new gardaí all holding bibles. And the prayers that many county councils engage in and Dail and Seanad prayers on the opening of the session of parliament.

AerynSun

State marriage ceremonies only during the week... whaaa? Kinda seems to me like most people would want their wedding at the weekend, and surely the state should accommodate that?

Kivaro

Yeah, but think of all the things we CAN do because we don't believe in God ....

bumper234

Kivaro wrote: »

Yeah, but think of all the things we CAN do because we don't believe in God ....

Sinners are winners

AerynSun

Kivaro wrote: »

Yeah, but think of all the things we CAN do because we don't believe in God ....

And happy days for those bits

I'm just trying to get a better insight into the things that religious people don't even think about... that impact the lives of people who aren't religious. Kinda the way Peggy McIntosh wrote 'White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack' to help white people understand how racism affects their lives: the 'advantages' that white people have without even knowing about them.

Until now, I've had 'religious privilege', so I don't know yet what walls I'm going to run up against now that I don't have that anymore...

bumper234

AerynSun wrote: »

And happy days for those bits

I'm just trying to get a better insight into the things that religious people don't even think about... that impact the lives of people who aren't religious. Kinda the way Peggy McIntosh wrote 'White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack' to help white people understand how racism affects their lives: the 'advantages' that white people have without even knowing about them.

Until now, I've had 'religious privilege', so I don't know yet what walls I'm going to run up against now that I don't have that anymore...

Have been an atheist all my life and I've never ran into any problems or faced any issues over my beliefs.

AerynSun

bumper234 wrote: »

Have been an atheist all my life and I've never ran into any problems or faced any issues over my beliefs.

Glad to hear that... fingers crossed I'll have a similar experience (bar the religious people who knew me as a religious person, trying to convince me that I'm wrong to have made the switch, of course).

J C

Kivaro wrote: »

Yeah, but think of all the things we CAN do because we don't believe in God ....

That's not the OP ... one thing that Atheists can't do because they don't believe in God is to pray ... except in 'foxholes' during war ... or so I'm reliably informed.:)

Brian Shanahan

J C wrote: »

one thing that Atheists can't do because they don't believe in God is to pray

Prayer, what religious people do when they're too lazy or mean to help others, but want the kudos from being seen to be helping.

Somehow, I don't think us atheists are too worried by the fact that we no longer have access to your imaginary friend, JC.

Sierra 117

J C wrote: »

That's not the OP ... one thing that Atheists can't do because they don't believe in God is to pray ... except in 'foxholes' during war ... or so I'm reliably informed.:)

You're never reliably informed.

bumper234

J C wrote: »

That's not the OP ... one thing that Atheists can't do because they don't believe in God is to pray ... except in 'foxholes' during war ... or so I'm reliably informed.:)

Been to war (no foxhole) and never prayed once, have prayed MANY times when my horse is running for the line (never works) I enjoy being an atheist I get to lie in on a Sunday morning

J C

bumper234 wrote: »

Been to war (no foxhole) and never prayed once,

That may explain it !!!:)

bumper234 wrote: »

... have prayed MANY times when my horse is running for the line (never works) I enjoy being an atheist I get to lie in on a Sunday morning

You seem to have your priorities all mixed up ... IMO.:)

As a matter of interest, what war were you in?

J C

Sierra 117 wrote: »

You're never reliably informed.

Being indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God means that I'm always reliably informed.:pac:

J C

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Prayer, what religious people do when they're too lazy or mean to help others, but want the kudos from being seen to be helping.

Somehow, I don't think us atheists are too worried by the fact that we no longer have access to your imaginary friend, JC.

When He turns out to be quite real ... what will you say then?

bumper234

J C wrote: »

That may explain it !!!:)


You seem to have your priorities all mixed up ... IMO.:)

As a matter of interest, what war were you in?

Explain what?

Sulla Felix

bumper234 wrote: »

Explain what?

A generous interpretation would be that he literally meant there was no foxhole in which to not be an atheist in. A cynical one might read into it an insinuation that you can't have been in much danger if you never felt the need to pray. :rolleyes:

Anyway, on the state marriage issue, I'd imagine that's purely a union driven restriction on working outside very strict timelines, typically 9-5, mon-fri. You can't get buried in Dublin on a Saturday or Sunday for probably the same reason, the gravediggers just don't work them, for whatever timetabling reason. It was a talking point at my fathers, cause he was a Dub and all the Dubs who arrived were marvelling at the idea and how much better it was cause we had the whole weekend for the customary piss up.

Sarky

J C wrote: »

When He turns out to be quite real ... what will you say then?

"Holy balls, this is the best acid trip ever"?

housetypeb

J C wrote: »

When He turns out to be quite real ... what will you say then?

Ask him where the ho's and coke are?

J C

housetypeb wrote: »

Ask him where the ho's and coke are?

... you'll be in for a hot and sticky time, if you do.:eek:

shruikan2553

J C wrote: »

When He turns out to be quite real ... what will you say then?

I would probably ask him how many shares = prayers on facebook it takes to save a child.

A. Rasher

"Are you really the head of the Kwik-E-Mart?"

Hotblack Desiato

J C wrote: »

That's not the OP ... one thing that Atheists can't do because they don't believe in God is to pray ... except in 'foxholes' during war ... or so I'm reliably informed.:)

That myth has already been debunked numerous times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Association_of_Atheists_%26_Freethinkers

But you never let that stop you.

Kivaro

J C wrote: »

... you'll be in for a hot and sticky time, if you do.:eek:

So you've been with a ho before then.

Gordon

I can't enjoy being blown away by magic/illusion as much as some of my religious friends can I'm always looking to figure out how they do the tricks.

smacl

J C wrote: »

When He turns out to be quite real ... what will you say then?

What? You mean to say He's not quite real as of now but will be at some point in the future? Or He just hasn't turned out, or even up, quite yet?

So what can't I do as an atheist? Hmmm, how about smugly suggesting that everyone who isn't a member of my cult will burn in hell for all eternity for giving me a hard time on boards.

C'mon now JC, much as I know they say that 'God loves a trier', you've really done enough. Really. Enough.

bumper234

As an atheist I cannot stone a woman to death if she has been with a man, I also wouldn't be able to rape a woman and force her to marry me as the bible says.

Thank **** for atheism.

bumper234

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

But how can you have morals without religion? It's unpossible :mad:




:pac:

But recent years have proven that some religious people have no morals, so you can't have morals without religion but with religion there is a chance you will have even less morals than a non religious person

J C

smacl wrote: »

What? You mean to say He's not quite real as of now but will be at some point in the future? Or He just hasn't turned out, or even up, quite yet?

So what can't I do as an atheist? Hmmm, how about smugly suggesting that everyone who isn't a member of my cult will burn in hell for all eternity for giving me a hard time on boards.

The mods don't have that power ... yet!!!

If you end up in Hell ... it will be your decision ... and nothing to with what you get up to on the Boards.:)

smacl wrote: »

C'mon now JC, much as I know they say that 'God loves a trier', you've really done enough. Really. Enough.

The work of Saving people is never done.:)

randomperson12

this is one thing they cant do.. go to heaven .... also i say alot of people that are atheists etc quit because they dont want the bother of going to mass etc half an hour in church isnt going to kill ya ..... just saying..... also good point j c

randomperson12

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

You're assuming people would want to go to a heaven where the main entry requirement is 'Bow to the will of the dictator'. Not my kind of club, cheers.

Half an hour in church isn't going to kill you. That half hour could be spent doing much more productive things though. Like drinking, or masturbating.

thats rotten and sowing stuff in a field is productive not sinning
plus an atheist moderator ithink banned me from the farming fourom
thats why im plundering all the fouroms

smacl

J C wrote: »

If you end up in Hell ... it will be your decision ... and nothing to with what you get up to on the Boards.:)

Excellent. Once place I won't be going so. I take it your version of the pit is somewhat different to Dante's inferno which has places reserved for all non-Christians, atheists, etc... Not of course that I'd be going to that one either, short of anyone else getting me a bottle of absinthe as a birthday gift.

The work of Saving people is never done.:)

I guess not. Worth a shot though... :pac:

bumper234

randomperson12 wrote: »

this is one thing they cant do.. go to heaven .... also i say alot of people that are atheists etc quit because they dont want the bother of going to mass etc half an hour in church isnt going to kill ya ..... just saying..... also good point j c

Why would I want to go to a place where I would have no independent thoughts or memories, where I would not recognise any friends or family members, where my one and only thought/feeling/function would be to idolise a "God" who chose to murder millions in a fit of rage.

randomperson12

hell is fire and lava and all that stuff only its black fire not red red fire is earthly and heavnely .. black fire is hell
plus jesus is coming sooner than we think

smacl

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

What's wrong with making a decision to try to live a good life and be kind to others without bowing to the will of a deranged deity?

It clearly pisses said deranged deity right off. If we're talking about the big fella the Christian's go for, he did let his own son get tortured to death, drowned millions, and regularly turns a blind eye to all sorts of atrocities up to and including genocide. He just not that much of an accommodating, live and let live kind of God, and doesn't give a rats ass whether or not you're a nice guy. Kowtow or burn, baby. Kowtow or burn.

smacl

bumper234 wrote: »

Why would I want to go to a place where I would have no independent thoughts or memories, where I would not recognise any friends or family members, where my one and only thought/feeling/function would be to idolise a "God" who chose to murder millions in a fit of rage.

Are we talking about mass or heaven here?

bumper234

smacl wrote: »

Are we talking about mass or heaven here?

Heaven of course!

All atheists already know that listening to mass is hell on earth

J C

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

What's wrong with making a decision to try to live a good life and be kind to others without bowing to the will of a deranged deity?

Living a good life and being kind to others are excellent ideas.
Bowing to the will of a deranged deity is not a good idea.

Believing on the Sovereign Creator God of the Universe, who loves you and wants to Save you ... is an excellent idea.

PopePalpatine

randomperson12 wrote: »

hell is fire and lava and all that stuff only its black fire not red red fire is earthly and heavnely .. black fire is hell
plus jesus is coming sooner than we think

bumper234

J C wrote: »

Living a good life and being kind to others are excellent ideas.
Bowing to the will of a deranged deity is not a good idea.

Believing on the Sovereign Creator God of the Universe, who loves you and wants to Save you ... is an excellent idea.

And which of the many thousands of so called "Gods" would this be?

shruikan2553

J C wrote: »

Living a good life and being kind to others are excellent ideas.
Bowing to the will of a deranged deity is not a good idea.

Believing on the Sovereign Creator God of the Universe, who loves you and wants to Save you ... is an excellent idea.

Sounds like an abusive relationship. He loves me, but he gives me original sin and has to hurt me so I'll be a better person. If I do what he wants he will treat me well.

bumper234 wrote: »

And which of the many thousands of so called "Gods" would this be?

The one true god duh*






*Please enter geographical location so we can supply you with your God.

Sarky

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Sounds like an abusive relationship. He loves me, but he gives me original sin and has to hurt me so I'll be a better person. If I do what he wants he will treat me well.

When it comes to religion, J C does exhibit a lot of what's sometimes called "beaten wife syndrome"

It's nice to know though that it's been used in the past as a defence for victims who ended up killing their abusers. No negative consequences for killing off God? I can dig it.

J C

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Sounds like an abusive relationship. He loves me, but he gives me original sin and has to hurt me so I'll be a better person. If I do what he wants he will treat me well.

We sinned ourselves ... and we hurt ourselves ... so all of the abuse is one way ... from us to ourselves and to God.

shruikan2553 wrote: »

The one true god duh*

... with a capital G.;)

shruikan2553

Sarky wrote: »

When it comes to religion, J C does exhibit a lot of what's sometimes called "beaten wife syndrome"

It's nice to know though that it's been used in the past as a defence for victims who ended up killing their abusers. No negative consequences for killing off God? I can dig it.

The symptoms sure are apt.

1. The abused thinks that the violence was his or her fault.
2. The abused has an inability to place the responsibility for the violence elsewhere.
3. The abused fears for their life and/or the lives of their children (if present).
4. The abused has an irrational belief that the abuser is omnipresent and omniscient.

J C wrote: »

We sinned ourselves ... and we hurt ourselves ... so all of the abuse is one way ... from us to ourselves and to God.

... with a capital G.;)

WE sinned? As far as I know 2 humans did (a woman leading a man astray, whats new there) and now everyone is born with sin. God created these issues and punishes us for what he created himself. This just shows the above symptoms perfectly.

J C

Sarky wrote: »

When it comes to religion, J C does exhibit a lot of what's sometimes called "beaten wife syndrome"

It's nice to know though that it's been used in the past as a defence for victims who ended up killing their abusers. No negative consequences for killing off God? I can dig it.

Only problem with your theory is that God doesn't abuse us.

It's a bit like the Theory of Spontaneous Evolution ... it's only problem is that its totally invalid ... apart from that it's a brilliant theory!!!:)

gctest50

J C wrote: »

Only problem with your theory is that god

your make believe god .... not my make believe one

Sarky

J C wrote: »

Only problem with your theory is that God doesn't abuse us.

Thinking your abuse was deserved. Unable to place responsibility on the abuser. Belief your abuser is omnipresent and omniscient.

Blimey, you're a textbook case.

kylith

J C wrote: »

If you end up in Hell ... it will be your decision ... and nothing to with what you get up to on the Boards.:)

randomperson12 wrote: »

hell is fire and lava and all that stuff only its black fire not red red fire is earthly and heavnely .. black fire is hell
plus jesus is coming sooner than we think

I'm not too worried. I won't be able to get near the fire for all the Catholic priests.

robindch

randomperson12 is taking the week off so (s)he can hyperventilate in private.

delaad

No doubt its been done,...... but they can't imitate Miley and go "Ah, Holy God"

Turtwig

robindch wrote: »

randomperson12 is taking the week off so (s)he can hyperventilate in private.

Like so?