Transparency for all

Annasopra · 23-01-2014 08:36PM #1

The situation about charities has got me thinking a lot about the issue of transparency. There are always calls for wages of politicians, civil servants and people working for charities to publish their salary details. At the moment income inequality is ironically and bizarrely enough being debated in Davos at the World Economic Forum.

Anyway I think that we in Ireland should have a similar system to Norway. Make everyones income and tax details publicly available.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/07/in-norway-everyones-income-is-public-and-so-is-tax-paid/242386/

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/10/20/tax-lists-bared-for-public-review/

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2012/04/want-to-know-what-tax-transparency-looks-like-look-at-norway/

Mint Aero · 23-01-2014 08:41PM

Cool lets do that, you first

Irish Steve · 23-01-2014 08:42PM

That may be a step too far for the conservative Irish general population, but a starting point would be that the income details for ANYONE involved in dealing with public funds or charitable donations has to be disclosed in the public domain.

MadYaker · 23-01-2014 08:42PM

Feck off, if I want to dodge tax its non of your business, its between me and Revenue.

king_of_inismac · 23-01-2014 08:42PM

Interesting.

I was thinking something similar today (albeit from a more basic level).

Is secrecy ever a good thing (for a population as a whole, rather than on an individual level)?

I mean is EVERYTHING was known about EVERYONE would society be more accepting?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 23-01-2014 08:45PM

Actually if something is transparent you can't see it. Light passes straight through it so you see the object beyond it. So calls for transparency are misguided.

dxhound2005 · 23-01-2014 08:49PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Feck off, if I want to dodge tax its non of your business, its between me and Revenue.

If you take your tax dodging to a certain level they will most likely break the mutual bond of silence. The interesting characters are in Part 2 every quarter and they usually cause a few headlines.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/defaulters/

king_of_inismac · 23-01-2014 09:49PM

Emmie Steep Boy wrote: »

Actually if something is transparent you can't see it. Light passes straight through it so you see the object beyond it. So calls for transparency are misguided.

I don't know if you're joking or not.

They are looking for transparency so those on the outside of an entity can see what's happening inside the entity.

looking_around · 23-01-2014 10:20PM

I don't see why not, I have nothing to hide.

And if anyone does have something to hide, it's more of a reason for transparency than not.

awec · 23-01-2014 10:40PM

What anyone earns is no business of yours.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 23-01-2014 10:44PM

king_of_inismac wrote: »

I don't know if you're joking or not.

They are looking for transparency so those on the outside of an entity can see what's happening inside the entity.

I'm certainly not joking. If everything in an organisation is transparent then it, in itself, is invisible, cannot be seen, is not in view. Transparency is the wrong word.

J_E · 23-01-2014 10:46PM

king_of_inismac wrote: »

Interesting.

I was thinking something similar today (albeit from a more basic level).

Is secrecy ever a good thing (for a population as a whole, rather than on an individual level)?

I mean is EVERYTHING was known about EVERYONE would society be more accepting?

Read 1984 and find out

humbert · 23-01-2014 10:48PM

awec wrote: »

What anyone earns is no business of yours.

Completely agree. The suggestion is completely insane. For public officials I can understand it but for private citizens it's just bewildering.

humbert · 23-01-2014 10:50PM

Emmie Steep Boy wrote: »

I'm certainly not joking. If everything in an organisation is transparent then it, in itself, is invisible, cannot be seen, is not in view. Transparency is the wrong word.

You're taking the physical definition of the word and applying it out of context. It's not the wrong word.

Annasopra · 23-01-2014 10:55PM

awec wrote: »

What anyone earns is no business of yours.

why?

Rabelais · 23-01-2014 10:59PM

mango salsa wrote: »

why?

Because what someone makes is the same as asking someone about their age, sexuality, what they had for breakfast, or how many bowel movements they had on Tuesday.

Dyr · 23-01-2014 11:01PM

imagine it,

a nation of curtain twitchers salivating at the prospects of knowing their neighbours/friends/colleagues financial details while petrified at the idea of everyone knowing their details too, finance wise.

Not one constituency would vote for it

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 23-01-2014 11:06PM

humbert wrote: »

You're taking the physical definition of the word and applying it out of context. It's not the wrong word.

There can only be one definition of transparent and I gave it. As for a physical definition, that's a new one on me?

Relax!

Rabelais · 23-01-2014 11:08PM

Jesus, it's like the type of thing that would be discussed at a Socialist Workers Party 'workshop' before the lunchtime split.

Badly Drunk Boy · 23-01-2014 11:09PM

Emmie Steep Boy wrote: »

I'm certainly not joking. If everything in an organisation is transparent then it, in itself, is invisible, cannot be seen, is not in view. Transparency is the wrong word.

Openness might be a better word.

dxhound2005 · 23-01-2014 11:10PM

Bambi wrote: »

imagine it,

a nation of curtain twitchers salivating at the prospects of knowing their neighbours/friends/colleagues financial details while petrified at the idea of everyone knowing their details too, finance wise.

Not one constituency would vote for it

It wouldn't make any difference anyway. Even though we have had a system of publishing tax defaulters details since 1997 it is still going on. And a quick google will tell you that there is lots of tax evasion happening in Norway too.

http://taxtrustestatenews.com/six-u-s-states-involved-in-norwegian-tax-evasion-case/

In another example of international cooperation to quell Norwegian tax evasion, a quiet investigation is expected to reveal the identities of Norwegian taxpayers with secret U.S. bank accounts and of residents of Norway who should be, but aren't, paying taxes there.

So any so called transparency law will just be ignored by tax cheats, human nature being what it is in Norway just like anywhere else.

Annasopra · 23-01-2014 11:13PM

Rabelais wrote: »

Because what someone makes is the same as asking someone about their age, sexuality, what they had for breakfast, or how many bowel movements they had on Tuesday.

No it's not. It's completely different.

Do people who insist that they should know what politicians get paid seriously ask what they eat for breakfast?

Rabelais · 23-01-2014 11:17PM

mango salsa wrote: »

No it's not. It's completely different.

Do people who insist that they should know what politicians get paid seriously ask what they eat for breakfast?

We know what politicians get paid. We know what the Chief Executives of our semi-state companies get paid. And what senior civil servants get paid.

What do you want? Is there a limit at which the wage of someone isn't published? If so, why? Can lenders and service providers access this list?

Micky Dolenz · 23-01-2014 11:22PM

mango salsa wrote: »

why?

If you are asking, it's probably because they earn more than you.

Arthur Beesley · 23-01-2014 11:22PM

mango salsa wrote: »

The situation about charities has got me thinking a lot about the issue of transparency. There are always calls for wages of politicians, civil servants and people working for charities to publish their salary details. At the moment income inequality is ironically and bizarrely enough being debated in Davos at the World Economic Forum.

Anyway I think that we in Ireland should have a similar system to Norway. Make everyones income and tax details publicly available.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/07/in-norway-everyones-income-is-public-and-so-is-tax-paid/242386/

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/10/20/tax-lists-bared-for-public-review/

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2012/04/want-to-know-what-tax-transparency-looks-like-look-at-norway/

Why do you think this?

mrolston · 23-01-2014 11:29PM

I have long believed that things should be much more transparent when it comes to money and those people who are supposed to be public figures. I honestly don't know how to balance things between making stuff transparent without causing problems on the security level at a national level. Many politicians are able to spend money on nearly anything they want, and I don't recall being able to access salaries and the income of those in power. I would also be curious to see what tax advantages they receive, or even take for themselves, and a transparent financial structure would allow us to know exactly what they are earning, and where they are spending.

awec · 23-01-2014 11:31PM

mango salsa wrote: »

why?

Because it's private, personal information. Wanting to know is just sheer nosiness.

It's none of your business. The people who need to know how much someone earns already do.

Why on earth would you want to know? Are you going to treat people differently depending on their income? Is it going to improve your life in any way?

Do you go around at the moment asking people what they earn?

dxhound2005 · 23-01-2014 11:32PM

mrolston wrote: »

I have long believed that things should be much more transparent when it comes to money and those people who are supposed to be public figures. I honestly don't know how to balance things between making stuff transparent without causing problems on the security level at a national level. Many politicians are able to spend money on nearly anything they want, and I don't recall being able to access salaries and the income of those in power. I would also be curious to see what tax advantages they receive, or even take for themselves, and a transparent financial structure would allow us to know exactly what they are earning, and where they are spending.

How much effort did you put into trying to access the salaries of those in power. Did you try the internet?

http://www.nospinireland.com/Politicians.html

shedweller · 23-01-2014 11:37PM

awec wrote: »

What anyone earns is no business of yours.

If i'm paying his or her wages and lavish pensions then it most certainly should be my business.

awec · 23-01-2014 11:41PM

shedweller wrote: »

If i'm paying his or her wages and lavish pensions then it most certainly should be my business.

The thread is about making EVERYONE's income public.

But I don't think every public sector worker deserves to have their income made public, even if we are paying it.

Rabelais · 23-01-2014 11:42PM

shedweller wrote: »

If i'm paying his or her wages and lavish pensions then it most certainly should be my business.

Through taxes you are paying for the wages of nurses, teachers and police officers. We already have an idea of their pay scales. Do you think we should know exactly how much they make?

Again, how would this be published?

Transparency for all

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