Exactly what percentage of the population is "christian"?

I Heart Internet · 21-01-2014 11:38AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Which means that over 3 million do not.

You need to accept that and move on.

I have. Having provided you with the evidence you requested of me.

I found nothing shocking/surprising about the figures. You seemed very doubtful though.

Brown Bomber · 21-01-2014 11:41AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Did you read the whole report or just quote mine?

So no would be the answer. As far as you are aware, despite making a definitive statement, no-one has ever counted the number of people who attended Mass in Ireland on a given day.

Therefore your 1 million is a guesstimate.

A guestimate that would indicate that out of population of over 4 million, in a country that is allegedly over 80% Catholic, approx 30% of that 80% perform one of the basic 'requirements'.

Oh dear...that doesn't look very good for RCC now does it?

This is hilarious.

Mass attendance figures are a "guesstimate" now when they show you up but are made of solid gold when they are weakly trying to debunk the census.

I Heart Internet · 21-01-2014 11:42AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Did you read the whole report or just quote mine?

Quote your what? I just looked at Figure 1. It's the Figure with the necessary information.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So no would be the answer. As far as you are aware, despite making a definitive statement, no-one has ever counted the number of people who attended Mass in Ireland on a given day.?

Therefore your 1 million is a guesstimate. .

Of course it is, based on robust assumptions. How did you arrive at your figure of 1 or 2 people attending mass? What do you believe to be the real figure?

Bannasidhe wrote: »

A guestimate that would indicate that out of population of over 4 million, in a country that is allegedly over 80% Catholic, approx 30% of that 80% perform one of the basic 'requirements'.

Oh dear...that doesn't look very good for RCC now does it .

Perhaps. But as a matter of interest, what other concerted social activity do over 1 million Irish people do each week?

Brown Bomber · 21-01-2014 11:42AM

Cabaal wrote: »

I Heart Internet, you seem very interested in just trying to prove your beliefs in relation to the deluded "faithful" people in Ireland.

Are you as passionate about how sex abuse victims in the christian faith should be compensated and how as a whole the abuse scandal has been handled?

You forgot to bring up the crusades.

Delirium · 21-01-2014 11:44AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

You forgot to bring up the crusades.

Are victims of the crusades still alive?

Bannasidhe · 21-01-2014 11:45AM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I have. Having provided you with the evidence you requested of me.

I found nothing shocking/surprising about the figures. You seemed very doubtful though.

No.

You provided me with a guesstimate.

I expressed no doubt or surprise except at the fact that suddenly surveys are apparently a-ok.

If the vast majority of the population cannot even be bothered to attend Mass - which your guesstimate states they do not - how can one possibly say this is a predominately Christian country (ignoring for now the fact that 'Mass' is a specifically Catholic thing so one wouldn't expect to find many non-Catholic but still Christian attendees)?

Cabaal · 21-01-2014 11:47AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

You forgot to bring up the crusades.

wow, your response is to belittle and mock the subject matter of how the sex abuse scandals have affected who considers themselves catholic? Seriously?

We're talking about current events,

As the abuse victims are very much still alive and as children continue to be abused in many Asian, south American and African country's I think its very much a current issue.

I guess this subject is just too uncomfortable for the "faithful" in this thread to actually discuss in this thread or any other on this forum for that matter. I guess this does show the caring side of your faith....much like how the RCC as a whole has dealt with it.

Pathetic,

Bannasidhe · 21-01-2014 11:48AM

SW wrote: »

Are victims of the crusades still alive?

Give Uganda a chance - they have only just got going with their Christian led 'Anti-Gay Crusade'.

Bannasidhe · 21-01-2014 11:51AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

You forgot to bring up the crusades.

Is the poster who tried to drag this thread off on a tangent about 9/11 and Islam really going to try and debate relevance?

WOW.

21-01-2014 11:52AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Give Uganda a chance - they have only just got going with their Christian led 'Anti-Gay Crusade'.

Now in fairness the pope is doing everything he can to help there. He said that you shouldn't judge the gays. And he hasn't specifically endorsed any of the stuff there.
What more could he possibly do?

I Heart Internet · 21-01-2014 11:53AM

Cabaal wrote: »

wow, your response is to belittle and mock the subject matter of how the sex abuse scandals have affected who considers themselves catholic? Seriously?

I think that ship sailed, Cabaal, when you used abuse victims as a fig-leaf to distract from your own embarressment.

Cabaal · 21-01-2014 11:53AM

King Mob wrote: »

Now in fairness the pope is doing everything he can to help there. He said that you shouldn't judge the gays. And he hasn't specifically endorsed any of the stuff there.
What more could he possibly do?

something meaningful?
Oh wait...he's not done that on any other issue so why start on this....

I Heart Internet · 21-01-2014 11:55AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No.
If the vast majority of the population cannot even be bothered to attend Mass - which your guesstimate states they do not - how can one possibly say this is a predominately Christian country (ignoring for now the fact that 'Mass' is a specifically Catholic thing so one wouldn't expect to find many non-Catholic but still Christian attendees)?

When did I say that?

21-01-2014 11:55AM

Cabaal wrote: »

something meaningful?
Oh wait...he's not done that on any other issue so why start on this....

Exactly, it's not like people are getting hurt or dying.
He has politics to consider after all.

Bannasidhe · 21-01-2014 11:58AM

King Mob wrote: »

Now in fairness the pope is doing everything he can to help there. He said that you shouldn't judge the gays. And he hasn't specifically endorsed any of the stuff there.
What more could he possibly do?

I remain unconvinced due to the current Pope's big ol IF they accept Jesus(i.e. no shaggy shaggy for the homos) in his 'let's not judge the Gays' statement.

Besides - and this may come as a surprise to Catholic posters here

- The Pope does not speak for all Christians - hell, he doesn't even speak for all Catholics...

Cabaal · 21-01-2014 11:59AM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I think that ship sailed, Cabaal, when you used abuse victims as a fig-leaf to distract from your own embarressment.

You think I'm in embarrassed when you showed that over 3million of Ireland don't go to mass yet in previous posts you claim Ireland is a majority christian country. You undermined your own argument. Nice job!
:rolleyes:

The sex abuse scandals are relevant to the topic of the christian faith in Ireland, you may not like how and why they are but none the less they are and Iona's own survey which you've quoted stats from show the abuse has had an impact.

As I've said, you are passionate about trying to show how "faithful" Ireland is in your eye's. But you clearly don't actually give a monkeys about the real and life changing issues in this country.

If only you were so passionate about justice for abuse victims, then perhaps we'd live in a better world.

Until then I guess we'll live in a world where the Vatican tells the UN that their are not release any records to anyone and its not their fault the sex abuse cases happened.

I Heart Internet · 21-01-2014 12:03PM

Cabaal wrote: »

You think I'm in embarrassed when you showed that over 3million of Ireland don't go to mass yet in previous posts you claim Ireland is a majority christian country. You undermined your own argument. Nice job!
:rolleyes:

No. You were embarressed when you were proved to be misinformed about the numbers attending weekly mass. That's why you changed the subject. We were both there. We both saw it happening. :rolleyes:

robindch · 21-01-2014 12:15PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I go because I want to and it makes me happy.

I can probably guess the answer, but you're happy to go even though you don't believe everything (anything?) you're told to believe? And you're happy to lend your open support to an organization with the reputation of the RCC?

Cabaal · 21-01-2014 12:31PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

No. You were embarressed when you were proved to be misinformed about the numbers attending weekly mass. That's why you changed the subject. We were both there. We both saw it happening. :rolleyes:

You read into posts too much,
I asked you for proof of your statement and how you came to your conclusion, nothing more.

Re-read my post and you;ll see very clearly what I asked, I never actually disputed your "proof".

Not sure how you can claim I was misinformed given I was already aware of the 30% go to mass stat and have been for sometime. Infact I actually mentioned it in this forum no more then two days ago.

So your claim I was embarrassed is utter nonsense and is only in your mind, sorry to burst your bubble on that one.

My reason for bringing up sexual abuse was because I saw how passionate you were about such meaningless stuff (mass numbers, what a catholic is), but you fail to care about something far more important which is also relevant to the topics you care about mass numbers, what a catholic is.

The fact you continue to disregard such an important topic and a topic that impacts on christian numbers and mass numbers in Ireland shows me that you appear to care about as much as the Vatican does about the matter.

gaynorvader · 21-01-2014 12:36PM

What makes one a Catholic? Is it just deciding "Hey, I'm going to be a Catholic today." or is there more to it than that?

weisses · 21-01-2014 12:48PM

King Mob wrote: »

The kind of answer that illustrates the issue in your position.

The Census offers no useful or reliable information in this regard because you are arguing that the label of Christian does not imply any other information other than that's what people like to call themselves, regardless of belief.

It does not tell us religious affiliation. Affiliation means that you share some with that group. You say that there is nothing shared with that group besides the name.

So what percentage of people in Ireland agree with the church?
What percentage go to mass?
What percentage believes in God?

Are these the question asked in the polls that are used against the census?

And used here as proof the census is inaccurate ?

robindch · 21-01-2014 12:53PM

gaynorvader wrote: »

Is it just deciding "Hey, I'm going to be a Catholic today." or is there more to it than that?

For I Heart Internet at least, nope, catholicism has no meaning whatsoever.

21-01-2014 12:55PM

weisses wrote: »

Are these the question asked in the polls that are used against the census?

And used here as proof the census is inaccurate ?

No, it just shows that the figure quoted contains no useful information.
It does not show anything other than the number of people who ticked a box.

So it is neither useful, nor an effective gauge of what people in Ireland believe.
So saying that Catholicism or Christianity should have privileged positions in state matters because of the census figure is a flawed position.
And using the census to determine that Catholic schools are most in demand is a misuse of essentially meaningless data.

Bannasidhe · 21-01-2014 12:55PM

robindch wrote: »

For I Heart Internet at least, nope, catholicism has no meaning whatsoever.

Harsh Rob - it makes I Heart happy, surely that has meaning...

Mind you , it makes me unhappy so perhaps we cancel each other out...

robindch · 21-01-2014 01:00PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Harsh Rob - it makes I Heart happy, surely that has meaning...

Clarification - I'm referring to the term "catholicism", not the warm, fuzzy ingroup feelings that one gets while sitting in a nice, warm church and listening to pleasant music

Bannasidhe · 21-01-2014 01:06PM

robindch wrote: »

Clarification - I'm referring to the term "catholicism", not the warm, fuzzy ingroup feelings that one gets while sitting in a nice, warm church and listening to pleasant music

Now, now - it has been demonstrated that there is no 'catholicism' as such, there is only warm and fuzzy and feely good vibes and love and Jesus and whateveryou'rebelieveingyourselflikeshurewhoarewetoplaythedoctrinalheavysness.

weisses · 21-01-2014 01:10PM

King Mob wrote: »

No, it just shows that the figure quoted contains no useful information.
It does not show anything other than the number of people who ticked a box.

So it is neither useful, nor an effective gauge of what people in Ireland believe.
So saying that Catholicism or Christianity should have privileged positions in state matters because of the census figure is a flawed position.
And using the census to determine that Catholic schools are most in demand is a misuse of essentially meaningless data.

I understand your point but my concern is that the polls that are used to discredit the census could be of the same quality as the census itself, but yet are somehow accepted to use as a stick against the census.

There are always flaws in polls and surveys

But for your point and many other peoples view you need more solid evidence supporting your issue below

The Census offers no useful or reliable information in this regard because you are arguing that the label of Christian does not imply any other information other than that's what people like to call themselves, regardless of belief.

I understand the objections but have seen nothing solid presented to justify these objections

21-01-2014 01:18PM

weisses wrote: »

I understand your point but my concern is that the polls that are used to discredit the census could be of the same quality as the census itself, but yet are somehow accepted to use as a stick against the census.

There are always flaws in polls and surveys

But for your point and many other peoples view you need more solid evidence supporting your issue below

I understand the objections but have seen nothing solid presented to justify these objections

The polls show that those who consider themselves to be christian or catholic do not all share the same beliefs, even to the point of rejecting the defining beliefs of those religions.
Do the polls and surveys not show this?

Do you believe that all the people who claim to be Catholics believe the exact same things?
If not can you provide any statistics for the numbers of people who believe what?

Can you explain what about the polls is flawed that causes you to reject them?

Penn · 21-01-2014 01:30PM

weisses wrote: »

I understand your point but my concern is that the polls that are used to discredit the census could be of the same quality as the census itself, but yet are somehow accepted to use as a stick against the census.

There are always flaws in polls and surveys

But for your point and many other peoples view you need more solid evidence supporting your issue below

I understand the objections but have seen nothing solid presented to justify these objections

All of which points to secularism as the ideal solution. Various people believe various things to various degrees. So remove all that, and put in place systems which don't depend on religion statistics at all. The same systems for everyone, regardless of religion, which are equal and fair for all.

Bannasidhe · 21-01-2014 01:32PM

Penncil Dick wrote: »

All of which points to secularism as the ideal solution. Various people believe various things to various degrees. So remove all that, and put in place systems which don't depend on religion statistics at all. The same systems for everyone, regardless of religion, which are equal and fair for all.

But...but...ethos!

Exactly what percentage of the population is "christian"?

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