Why do utility companies only bill every two months ?

OU812 · 09-01-2014 6:07pm #1

Does it not make more sense both in terms of functionality & keeping bad debts to a minimum, to bill on a monthly basis ?

Mobile phone companies do, bin companies do, UPC does, Sky does, it's possible with TV licence, Property tax, why not gas, electricity, phone (eircom) & (eventually) water (motor tax every three months) ?

ted1 · 09-01-2014 6:08pm

saves on postage and admin. also they would have to take meter readers more frequently. you can always transfer money to them any time you want and it'll come off your bill.

OU812 · 09-01-2014 6:10pm

Postage & admin isn't a decider in the ones who do, the meter readers don't read every two months as it is (think it's four times a year). Currently pay small amounts weekly, rather than monthly as that's how the income comes in, but it seems like they'd be more on top of things with fewer bad debts if it was a case of monthly

lollsangel · 09-01-2014 6:11pm

You can get eircom monthly, I think you can request monthly bills for electric as far as i know

Alun · 09-01-2014 6:15pm

Is it an Irish thing? I ask because I remember when I first moved to Ireland it was one of those things that puzzled me. I'd been used to monthly bills for everything in the other countries I'd lived in.

Victor · 09-01-2014 7:33pm

To a degree, it means you can alternate your gas and electricity or phone, with only having to pay one / 1.5 bill per month

Morf · 09-01-2014 8:20pm

Have UPC by monthly DD here.

E-billed monthly.

Rashers72 · 09-01-2014 8:51pm

Airtricity bill me every month. Read my own meter, submit online, pay by dd.

BowWow · 09-01-2014 8:52pm

Used to have eircom bi-monthly, but with the change to efibre my bill has changed to monthly.

The Glass Key · 09-01-2014 9:04pm

Always seems very strange to me when most UK utility bills are quarterly.

loyatemu · 09-01-2014 10:48pm

The Glass Key wrote: »

Always seems very strange to me when most UK utility bills are quarterly.

that's even worse. All my utility bills are monthly, I get paid monthly, so that's fine.

ardmacha · 10-01-2014 7:56pm

The last thing I want is my letter box filling up with even more bills, if I am curious as to how much electricity or gas I am using I can read the meter any time I want.

tony1980 · 10-01-2014 7:59pm

I pay off a few quid on both the gas and electricity every week in the post office. Much handier to do it that way as the bills are always low when they come in then!

munchkin_utd · 10-01-2014 9:47pm

It's strange all right.

I have to say I like the German system, which not unsurprisingly is both logical and consumer friendly.
For electric you pay a fixed amount per month based on a twelfth of the estimated annual usage, so you are overpaying a little in summer and under paying in winter but it's the same amount all year so easier to budget for. Then at the end the actual reading is taken and you either get a refund or owe them a few euro.
The water and heating works the same way too so again no big shocks possible.

The Glass Key · 10-01-2014 9:50pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

It's strange all right.

I have to say I like the German system, which not unsurprisingly is both logical and consumer friendly.
For electric you pay a fixed amount per month based on a twelfth of the estimated annual usage, so you are overpaying a little in summer and under paying in winter but it's the same amount all year so easier to budget for. Then at the end the actual reading is taken and you either get a refund or owe them a few euro.
The water and heating works the same way too so again no big shocks possible.

Obviously they are better at estimating than they are here.

tony1980 · 10-01-2014 10:16pm

I think there was and maybe is a system in place to allow you to pay a fixed monthly amount each month based on the last year, don't know the exact details, I remember my brother saying that is what he was doing but he had to ask them about it. I think it was Bord Gais who were doing it.

donspeekinglesh · 11-01-2014 3:30pm

Yeah, Bord Gais were pushing that a while ago, Level Pay I think they call it. Airtricity offer it too.

OU812 · 11-01-2014 3:40pm

That Level Pay is a load of crap. They take your previous year's bills add 20% & then average it over 12 payments. Why add 20% ?

Victor · 12-01-2014 12:57am

OU812 wrote: »

That Level Pay is a load of crap. They take your previous year's bills add 20% & then average it over 12 payments. Why add 20% ?

So you don't get a big bill at the end if your usage goes up.

hfallada · 12-01-2014 1:17am

Dont forget most of utility companies are/were state owned. Logic and semi-state company dont go in the same sentence.

Captain Chaos · 12-01-2014 1:21am

Yeah Bord Gais do it and it's a great system,makes the most sense imo.

Sheldons Brain · 12-01-2014 1:39am

hfallada wrote: »

Dont forget most of utility companies are/were state owned. Logic and semi-state company dont go in the same sentence.

Where meters are physically distributed, like electricity and gas, it increases costs to have someone go around reading them every month. Perhaps they should have offered monthly bills to people willing to pay this extra cost.

OU812 · 12-01-2014 2:09am

Victor wrote: »

So you don't get a big bill at the end if your usage goes up.

20% is way too much. 10% is barely acceptable. 7.5 % would be the ideal amount. Why give them use of your money?

OU812 · 12-01-2014 2:11am

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Where meters are physically distributed, like electricity and gas, it increases costs to have someone go around reading them every month. Perhaps they should have offered monthly bills to people willing to pay this extra cost.

They could give the same schedule . Maybe one more reading at a push. The onus is on the user to ensure its correct anyway

Heroditas · 12-01-2014 8:43pm

OU812 wrote: »

The onus is on the user to ensure its correct anyway

And that is where it all falls down. When it comes to utility bills and responsibility concerning meters, your average customer just doesn't want to know.
They'll complain if the bill is too high but they won't do simple things like take a read and submit it themselves.

Cookie_Monster · 13-01-2014 1:29am

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Where meters are physically distributed, like electricity and gas, it increases costs to have someone go around reading them every month. Perhaps they should have offered monthly bills to people willing to pay this extra cost.

but with the instal of smart meters you are cutting down the read time dramatically for each, in that it's only drive by now rather than get out and read. So perfectly feasible to do monthly once everyone has them.

L1011 · 13-01-2014 9:35am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but with the instal of smart meters you are cutting down the read time dramatically for each, in that it's only drive by now rather than get out and read. So perfectly feasible to do monthly once everyone has them.

My meter is from 1972. Bit of a lengthy replacement cycle they have to be making plans.

Heroditas · 13-01-2014 10:17am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but with the instal of smart meters you are cutting down the read time dramatically for each, in that it's only drive by now rather than get out and read. So perfectly feasible to do monthly once everyone has them.

Not just monthly but if people are on a paperless billing plan and direct debit, there's no reason why they couldn't be billed weekly or even daily.

murphym7 · 15-01-2014 5:31pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Yeah Bord Gais do it and it's a great system,makes the most sense imo.

I moved a few months ago from a house with Oil central heating so had no gas account. I rang Bord Gais and they had 3 options for me.

1) Pay a stupid amount of a deposit and pay per bill
2) Pay a less stupid amount of a deposit and go Direct debit
3) Pay an average amount each month throughout the year with no deposit

Obviously chose option 3, and I am happy out I have to say. A fixed amount taken out each month, no surprises. I might be in deficit for the next bill but will be in credit or break even shortly after that. No big deal at all. Might look into doing the same with electricity if it’s possible.

Carawaystick · 15-01-2014 8:45pm

ardmacha wrote: »

if I am curious as to how much electricity or gas I am using I can read the meter any time I want.

Apart from the fact BGÉ use a completely unexplained time varying conversion factor to go from m^3 to kWh for your gas bill

When BGÉ first started selling domestic electricity, I asked for the bills for gas and electricity to be in seperate months, but they told me they couldn't /wouldn't

Alun · 15-01-2014 9:19pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Apart from the fact BGÉ use a completely unexplained time varying conversion factor to go from m^3 to kWh for your gas bill

The calorific value of natural gas varies due to a number of factors such as exactly where it's being sourced, the physical properties of the gas and temperature and pressure. Not a lot they can do about that, it's a 'natural' product and as such is variable in quality.

Samples are tested regularly by BG Networks, and the various suppliers (BG, Airtricicty, Electric Ireland etc.) all use the same value for the calculation of their bills.

BGE don't currently seem to include an explanation on their bills but I'm sure they did at one stage. Airtricity do ...

http://www.airtricity.com/ie/home/help-centre-ie/understanding-your-bill/usage-and-billing-method/what-is-the-conversion-factor-and-why-does-it-change/

Victor · 16-01-2014 1:05am

Carawaystick wrote: »

Apart from the fact BGÉ use a completely unexplained time varying conversion factor to go from m^3 to kWh for your gas bill

In winter, gas is colder and therefore denser and you get more kWh per m3. Conversely, in summer, it is warmer, less dense and you get less. Depending on the source of the gas, the methane percentage may also vary slightly.

antoobrien · 16-01-2014 1:10pm

murphym7 wrote: »

I moved a few months ago from a house with Oil central heating so had no gas account. I rang Bord Gais and they had 3 options for me.

1) Pay a stupid amount of a deposit and pay per bill
2) Pay a less stupid amount of a deposit and go Direct debit
3) Pay an average amount each month throughout the year with no deposit

Obviously chose option 3, and I am happy out I have to say. A fixed amount taken out each month, no surprises. I might be in deficit for the next bill but will be in credit or break even shortly after that. No big deal at all. Might look into doing the same with electricity if it’s possible.

Yes they will also do it for electricity. I had both electricity and gas on level pay and was very happy with the fact that I knew what the next three months bills would be.

OU812 wrote: »

That Level Pay is a load of crap. They take your previous year's bills add 20% & then average it over 12 payments. Why add 20% ?

Not true, they take the average bill across a rolling 12 month usage at that address (so for renters, it could be based on the previous tenants usage pattern). They use that to calculate what the future payments should be. When I was with them, the amounts were reviewed every three months.

Carawaystick · 16-01-2014 1:18pm

Victor wrote: »

In winter, gas is colder and therefore denser and you get more kWh per m3. Conversely, in summer, it is warmer, less dense and you get less. Depending on the source of the gas, the methane percentage may also vary slightly.

I tracked the conversion factor and there didn't seem to be an annual cycle. Also as my meter is only read a few times a year, when I use the gas and the conversion factor can be out of whack.

Alun · 16-01-2014 2:17pm

It's not only purely seasonal, as both Victor and I said. Gas comes from different wells, different countries even, and even from one well the characteristics will change over time. If you want to make sure you get maximum value out of it, just read your own meter and submit readings online.

Carawaystick · 18-01-2014 2:55am

Alun wrote: »

It's not only purely seasonal, as both Victor and I said. Gas comes from different wells, different countries even, and even from one well the characteristics will change over time. If you want to make sure you get maximum value out of it, just read your own meter and submit readings online.

But one reading is for a couple of months, and the fudge/conversion factor can change then.

We should be billed on what's measured, especially as we're taxed on kWh, but kWH isn't measured.

If they billed every month, they'd halve their inaccuracy anyway.

Heroditas · 18-01-2014 11:15am

The conversion factor is measured every day and then averaged out over the period in question.

Why do utility companies only bill every two months ?

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