If you knew your neighbour was a dole cheat would you report him/her

suicide_circus · 15-01-2014 02:53PM

TheMza wrote: »

It's not my job to report benefit frauds!

If we lived in a society where people only did things if it were their job, we'd be in a pretty bad way.

suicide_circus · 15-01-2014 02:56PM

Valetta wrote: »

Under what circunstances would a person not be able to feed and clothe themselves under our generous welfare systemt".

living wildly beyond their means because they're "entitled" to?

matt-dublin · 15-01-2014 02:56PM

SmurfX wrote: »

So you should do your civic duty in reporting fraud against the common taxpayer unless where you personally don't agree with the rules and then its ok not to?
That isn't adhering to the law or respecting the common taxpayer, that's acting on your own feelings of how the law should work.

no, where someone is actually in need of the benefit. as an example i used a single mother who doesn't recieve any support. She won't be able to find a job because she won't be able to get anyone to mind her child while she's in work. When the child goes into full time education it will allow her back into work.

i also used a builder as another example who is claiming the dole and rent allowance as well as working full time for cash in hand.

One here is breaking the rules, one isn't. clear and simple IMO and you're right, your civic duty would be to report the fraudulent activity. Potentially you knowing about it and not doing anything about it makes you an accessory.

Mrs Garth Brooks · 15-01-2014 03:11PM

I came so close to it a few times.

My mother was claiming the dole of €200 a week, a job on the sly, it was only an extra €100. Not much really. But she had an attitude of housekeepinp of myself and my sister only. That was an extra €100 a week. Tax free and to boost up her income.

I have no problem paying housekeeping. It was only €50 a week. You'd be paying more in rent. But I did have a problem that my mother wouldn't take housekeeping of my three brothers.

I lived at home, payed my way, payed bills and bought my own food. My sister did too. All the while, my mother wouldnt take a cent of my three brothers and provided for them, dinners made, no dinners for myself and my sister. She even gave them holiday money to Australia. Some of them taking in €600+ a week with dole+job. Their money was drinking money and excuses made for them. One of my brothers was buying cars on €100 dole a week. He didnt have to worry about where his food came.

There was weekly rows, if it wasnt myself, it was my sister that would question the behaviour and why housekeeping of the girls only. Its not as if we were earning €800 a week, we weren't. I was only earning €400 a week. So after the female tax, I was getting €350 a week. In a job I hated, and I was in debt. And I was meant to pay into that crap? It was my mother's choice if she wanted to support her grown men, not mine.

This was going on way before the recession started. When the recession hit, my mother never cut back and to this day she hasn't. They have to get crates of coke and pizzas. I remember going shopping with her and I pointed out a shop owned brand and "they mightn't like it". It was her money! They weren't paying housekeeping.

There were wars when my mother didnt get housekeeping of myself and my sister. She would threaten us, and hit us. My sister would pay up for peace. Peace or no peace, I wasnt. I got alot more of the abuse until I payed up. Every week.

Its all about control with my mother. She stopped myself and my sister getting on in life. Never allowed us swimming lessons as kids, and jealous when we studied, she would come in and throw our books all over the place. Money was the same, god help it if we end up with more money than she ever did. And money made her happy. Her boys getting 600+ a week, herself getting 400 a week, and myself and my sister getting 350 a week. Right there at the bottom where 'silly bitches' belong.

I came so close to snitching on my own mother. If she didnt have her dole, how would she feed her babies. Maybe asked my brothers for money! Im so sorry that I never did. But then when you have someone that vicious on your back.

Two brothers are in Australia now and they're not coming back. Its matter of time before my youngest brother goes too. And yet, who's left to mind my mother when she gets old, but myself and my sister. Two people my mother despises. But im not going to be around for my mother, after so much abuse.

This was only about dole cheats. But the lot of them are selfish, so I would snitch.

Frank Black · 15-01-2014 03:21PM

Of course you should.
We only have a limited amount of resources available for SW. Anyone who is defrauding the system is effectively taking money from someone else who may be in real need of it.

Eight Ball · 15-01-2014 03:22PM

Shocked by the poll results. Never knew we had so many busy bodies.

Fighting Irish · 15-01-2014 03:24PM

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

I came so close to it a few times.

My mother was claiming the dole of €200 a week, a job on the sly, it was only an extra €100. Not much really. But she had an attitude of housekeepinp of myself and my sister only. That was an extra €100 a week. Tax free and to boost up her income.

I have no problem paying housekeeping. It was only €50 a week. You'd be paying more in rent. But I did have a problem that my mother wouldn't take housekeeping of my three brothers.

I lived at home, payed my way, payed bills and bought my own food. My sister did too. All the while, my mother wouldnt take a cent of my three brothers and provided for them, dinners made, no dinners for myself and my sister. She even gave them holiday money to Australia. Some of them taking in €600+ a week with dole+job. Their money was drinking money and excuses made for them. One of my brothers was buying cars on €100 dole a week. He didnt have to worry about where his food came.

There was weekly rows, if it wasnt myself, it was my sister that would question the behaviour and why housekeeping of the girls only. Its not as if we were earning €800 a week, we weren't. I was only earning €400 a week. So after the female tax, I was getting €350 a week. In a job I hated, and I was in debt. And I was meant to pay into that crap? It was my mother's choice if she wanted to support her grown men, not mine.

This was going on way before the recession started. When the recession hit, my mother never cut back and to this day she hasn't. They have to get crates of coke and pizzas. I remember going shopping with her and I pointed out a shop owned brand and "they mightn't like it". It was her money! They weren't paying housekeeping.

There were wars when my mother didnt get housekeeping of myself and my sister. She would threaten us, and hit us. My sister would pay up for peace. Peace or no peace, I wasnt. I got alot more of the abuse until I payed up. Every week.

Its all about control with my mother. She stopped myself and my sister getting on in life. Never allowed us swimming lessons as kids, and jealous when we studied, she would come in and throw our books all over the place. Money was the same, god help it if we end up with more money than she ever did. And money made her happy. Her boys getting 600+ a week, herself getting 400 a week, and myself and my sister getting 350 a week. Right there at the bottom where 'silly bitches' belong.

I came so close to snitching on my own mother. If she didnt have her dole, how would she feed her babies. Maybe asked my brothers for money! Im so sorry that I never did. But then when you have someone that vicious on your back.

Two brothers are in Australia now and they're not coming back. Its matter of time before my youngest brother goes too. And yet, who's left to mind my mother when she gets old, but myself and my sister. Two people my mother despises. But im not going to be around for my mother, after so much abuse.

This was only about dole cheats. But the lot of them are selfish, so I would snitch.

lol

matt-dublin · 15-01-2014 03:27PM

Eight Ball wrote: »

Shocked by the poll results. Never knew we had so many busy bodies.

not busy bodies, people pissed of carrying benefit fraudsters.

why should we have to pay up to 57% in taxes to support fraudsters.

Renegade Mechanic · 15-01-2014 03:31PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

If we lived in a society where people only did things if it were their job, we'd be in a pretty bad way.

Case in point, the HSE clerical staff

Valetta · 15-01-2014 03:32PM

Eight Ball wrote: »

Shocked by the poll results. Never knew we had so many busy bodies.

It's not being a busy body.

As has been said before in the thread, it's no different to reporting a crime witnessed on the street: say a mugging or someone shoplifting.

Tiddlypeeps · 15-01-2014 03:33PM

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

I came so close to it a few times.

My mother was claiming the dole of €200 a week, a job on the sly, it was only an extra €100. Not much really. But she had an attitude of housekeepinp of myself and my sister only. That was an extra €100 a week. Tax free and to boost up her income.

I have no problem paying housekeeping. It was only €50 a week. You'd be paying more in rent. But I did have a problem that my mother wouldn't take housekeeping of my three brothers.

I lived at home, payed my way, payed bills and bought my own food. My sister did too. All the while, my mother wouldnt take a cent of my three brothers and provided for them, dinners made, no dinners for myself and my sister. She even gave them holiday money to Australia. Some of them taking in €600+ a week with dole+job. Their money was drinking money and excuses made for them. One of my brothers was buying cars on €100 dole a week. He didnt have to worry about where his food came.

There was weekly rows, if it wasnt myself, it was my sister that would question the behaviour and why housekeeping of the girls only. Its not as if we were earning €800 a week, we weren't. I was only earning €400 a week. So after the female tax, I was getting €350 a week. In a job I hated, and I was in debt. And I was meant to pay into that crap? It was my mother's choice if she wanted to support her grown men, not mine.

This was going on way before the recession started. When the recession hit, my mother never cut back and to this day she hasn't. They have to get crates of coke and pizzas. I remember going shopping with her and I pointed out a shop owned brand and "they mightn't like it". It was her money! They weren't paying housekeeping.

There were wars when my mother didnt get housekeeping of myself and my sister. She would threaten us, and hit us. My sister would pay up for peace. Peace or no peace, I wasnt. I got alot more of the abuse until I payed up. Every week.

Its all about control with my mother. She stopped myself and my sister getting on in life. Never allowed us swimming lessons as kids, and jealous when we studied, she would come in and throw our books all over the place. Money was the same, god help it if we end up with more money than she ever did. And money made her happy. Her boys getting 600+ a week, herself getting 400 a week, and myself and my sister getting 350 a week. Right there at the bottom where 'silly bitches' belong.

I came so close to snitching on my own mother. If she didnt have her dole, how would she feed her babies. Maybe asked my brothers for money! Im so sorry that I never did. But then when you have someone that vicious on your back.

Two brothers are in Australia now and they're not coming back. Its matter of time before my youngest brother goes too. And yet, who's left to mind my mother when she gets old, but myself and my sister. Two people my mother despises. But im not going to be around for my mother, after so much abuse.

This was only about dole cheats. But the lot of them are selfish, so I would snitch.

Pretty sure I've read this exact story before.

Why would you put up with that situation? I assume since you were working it happened or continued into adult life, why stick around?

Reporting someone just because they pissed you off is petty at best. Either report everyone or don't report anyone, doing so for vengeance alone is pretty scummy.

The only exception I think is reasonable is if you genuinely believe someone has fallen outside the system and will likely end up homeless/hungry if they don't cheat the system a bit but those cases are pretty rare in Ireland.

darkpagandeath · 15-01-2014 03:37PM

mango salsa wrote: »

Since when is it moving back to being paid in the bank?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/cash-payments-for-social-welfare-claimants-to-be-phased-out-by-2017-29246493.html

matt-dublin wrote: »

not busy bodies, people pissed of carrying benefit fraudsters.

why should we have to pay up to 57% in taxes to support fraudsters.

So 100% of the tax take goes directly to social welfare now ?

Valetta · 15-01-2014 03:40PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

So 100% of the tax take goes directly to social welfare now ?

No one said that, as well you know.

burke027 · 15-01-2014 03:44PM

Well hears one for you's.
I'm a civil servant and I take home a wage of 452 euro a week after 13 years of working in this job. 25 percent of this personal are in receipt of fis. I myself have not claimed as of yet. I pay maintenance for two kids of 50each a week and I lost my single parent tax credit. So between that and the maintenance I'm left with 320 euro a week.

I live in rented modest 3 bed house in which the rent is 950 per month. As u can see things are tight before I put food or juggle which bills I'm paying this month or which have to be deferred.

My ex works part time cash in hand gets every benefit going and rent allowance. While I scrap by.

Is this right no not in any way one final thing she is the nastiest person you have ever came across. The things she has done and said you wouldn't even dream of. Should I report her YES can I report her NO why you ask because at the end of the day she will take it out on my kids with her bipolar attitude.

I'm in a impossible situation and don't no where to turn.

darkpagandeath · 15-01-2014 03:44PM

Valetta wrote: »

No one said that, as well you know.

It was implied or was the quote wrong ?

Valetta · 15-01-2014 03:52PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

It was implied or was the quote wrong ?

I can't speak for the poster in question, but I certainly didn't take that implication from the post.

Methinks you're being purposely pedantic for lack of any logical argument.

darkpagandeath · 15-01-2014 03:57PM

Valetta wrote: »

I can't speak for the poster in question, but I certainly didn't take that implication from the post.

Methinks you're being purposely pedantic for lack of any logical argument.

Well I did not think it had to be explained as any reasonable person knows only a tiny amount of your tax taken goes to Social welfare but that's just me. The person Quoted seemed to think otherwise.

Tiddlypeeps · 15-01-2014 04:00PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Well I did not think it had to be explained as any reasonable person knows only a tiny amount of your tax taken goes to Social welfare but that's just me. The person Quoted seemed to think otherwise.

Doesn't social welfare make over a third of the budget? I know about half of that is OAP's but even after that I wouldn't consider it a tiny amount by any standard.

Frank Black · 15-01-2014 04:03PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

as any reasonable person knows only a tiny amount of your tax taken goes to Social welfare.

That's a joke, right?

darkpagandeath · 15-01-2014 04:07PM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Doesn't social welfare make over a third of the budget? I know about half of that is OAP's but even after that I wouldn't consider it a tiny amount by any standard.

At the moment with everyone out of work yes but that's messed up the figures when most people are back in fulltime employment OAP is were it mostly goes and now. And as I have said again and again they have looked into combating welfare fraud .. but guess what it's tiny there were a few large fraudsters caught. People have this notion in their head that massive numbers of people are scamming the system when it's simply not true. But it never gets old bashing the old stereotypes does it ...

darkpagandeath · 15-01-2014 04:08PM

Frank Black wrote: »

That's a joke, right?

I'm guessing people are missing the "your tax taken part" and inserting total taxpayer

Frank Black · 15-01-2014 04:12PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm guessing people are missing the "your tax taken part" and inserting total taxpayer

Total projected Spend on SW 2014 - €19.6bn
Total income tax return for 2013 - €15.7bn

darkpagandeath · 15-01-2014 04:19PM

Frank Black wrote: »

Total projected Spend on SW 2014 - €19.6bn
Total income tax return for 2013 - €15.7bn

It's nice picking figures out of the air to make an argument look valid

1. That's projected

2. As you well know there is more tax taken than simply income tax

lets play a game ...

Do the same with the health budget. As your not saying people don't deserve to be treated if they get ill ?

Tiddlypeeps · 15-01-2014 04:22PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

At the moment with everyone out of work yes but that's messed up the figures when most people are back in fulltime employment OAP is were it mostly goes and now. And as I have said again and again they have looked into combating welfare fraud .. but guess what it's tiny there were a few large fraudsters caught. People have this notion in their head that massive numbers of people are scamming the system when it's simply not true. But it never gets old bashing the old stereotypes does it ...

That's not what you said tho. You said everyone knows only a tiny percentage of the tax they pay goes towards social welfare.

It's also next to impossible to show how many people are cheating the system, given that if they could count them then they wouldn't be cheating the system anymore. I have no idea how you can make the claim that it's negligible. Either way it shouldn't be allowed to happen. Even if it's only 100 people across the entire country, that's potentially an extra 1 million euro or more that could be better spent. That's enough to hire an extra ~30 front line staff (nurses, teachers, police etc), that could make a very real difference to some hospitals/schools/communities. In reality the number is probably a lot higher than that. Small numbers very quickly add up to big numbers.

darkpagandeath · 15-01-2014 04:34PM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

That's not what you said tho. You said everyone knows only a tiny percentage of the tax they pay goes towards social welfare.

It's also next to impossible to show how many people are cheating the system, given that if they could count them then they wouldn't be cheating the system anymore. I have no idea how you can make the claim that it's negligible. Either way it shouldn't be allowed to happen. Even if it's only 100 people across the entire country, that's potentially an extra 1 million euro or more that could be better spent. That's enough to hire an extra ~30 front line staff (nurses, teachers, police etc), that could make a very real difference to some hospitals/schools/communities. In reality the number is probably a lot higher than that. Small numbers very quickly add up to big numbers.

Because it's true are you having a hard time reading were I said "Your Tax Taken" I did not say the total tax income for the country please point out to were I said this ? And how much of that 1 Million would be wasted trying to catch that 100 ? Surveillance monitoring and so on ... And I don’t know how people can say Pretty much everyone is scamming the system I would wager my statement of hardly any is closer to the truth.

Specialun · 15-01-2014 04:36PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

At the moment with everyone out of work yes but that's messed up the figures when most people are back in fulltime employment OAP is were it mostly goes and now. And as I have said again and again they have looked into combating welfare fraud .. but guess what it's tiny there were a few large fraudsters caught. People have this notion in their head that massive numbers of people are scamming the system when it's simply not true. But it never gets old bashing the old stereotypes does it ...

Figures show that over 700m from clerical errors and Fraudsters in 2013..

UCDVet · 15-01-2014 04:42PM

That depends - what country am I in?

If I'm living in Ireland and my neighbor is a (n Irish) dole cheat - I'd report him. Because he's stealing from me. Either I have a job and he's taking my tax money or I don't and he's taking public resources that I might otherwise get.

If I'm living somewhere else, like Canada and he's running an elaborate scam that allows him to collect the dole in Ireland - that's far enough removed that it doesn't directly impact me in any meaningful way. So I'd mind my own business.

darkpagandeath · 15-01-2014 04:42PM

Specialun wrote: »

Figures show that over 700m from clerical errors and Fraudsters in 2013..

So clerical errors make up the bulk and to look like their doing something they mention Fraudsters. Unless you can link otherwise. Everyone knows there is massive wastage in the system admin back office so on so forth.

Specialun · 15-01-2014 04:45PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

So clerical errors make up the bulk and to look like their doing something they mention Fraudsters. Unless you can like otherwise. Everyone knows there is massive wastage in the system admin back office so on so forth.

How do you know clerical errors make up the bulk or do you feel to make up [EMAIL="cr@p"]cr@p[/EMAIL] to suit your arguement. You claimed very little is taken from fraud..I showed you figures that could potentially mean your wrong

Tiddlypeeps · 15-01-2014 04:45PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Because it's true are you having a hard time reading were I said "Your Tax Taken" I did not say the total tax income for the country please point out to were I said this ? And how much of that 1 Million would be wasted trying to catch that 100 ? Surveillance monitoring and so on ... And I don’t know how people can say Pretty much everyone is scamming the system I would wager my statement of hardly any is closer to the truth.

You can't differentiate where specific tax taken goes, it doesn't' work like that. The government don't sit down and go right lads were gonna put income tax into health and were gonna put VAT into social welfare, it just doesn't work like that and that would be a really daft way to to it. It all goes into a pot and is distributed as needed.

Over 30% of the budget goes on social welfare therefore I can claim that over 30% of my tax taken goes on social welfare, since it goes into a generic pot that pays out over 30% of it's contents for social welfare.

You wouldn't do up a household budget like that, you wouldn't work on monday and say right todays wages are gonna go on rent and tomorrows are gonna go on bills. Since you get payed a lump sum at the end of the week/month it would be much more appropriate to say x% is gonna go on rent and y% is gonna go on bills.

I never said they should put any extra money into catch those people screwing the system. The theme of the thread is should you report people who cheat the system. Your view seems to be no because people cheating the state don't cost us that much money (correct me if I'm wrong). That logic is flawed because you have no idea how much money it costs the state and as demonstrated above relatively small numbers can cost a fairly significant amount of money.

I don't think anyone is claiming that pretty much everyone is scamming the system.

If you knew your neighbour was a dole cheat would you report him/her

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