(Old thread) Fixed parts, sold car, new owner says part was never fixed!

rockdj316 · 14-01-2014 10:45PM

I've got a similar post about this subject but want to know if anyone else has ever been in the same place?
Paid for water pump and timing belt to be done on car, sold a few days later,new owner states belt wasn't done as engine has seized,apparently his 2 mechanic stated the same too.
He's seeing his solicitor tomorrow
I did state on ad when I was selling that the pump and belt were done.
If it turns out that the belt wasn't done,where do I stand?I didn't get a receipt when the job was done as it's a friends garage and I got a few quid off.
Saw the mechanic today and he said the job was done properly!
Has anyone else been in the same predicament?
The new owner had the car for 13 days when it broke down on him.

listermint · 14-01-2014 10:46PM

Tell him to enjoy the solictor and then stop answering the phone or texts or whatever means he is contacting you by.

Close case.

Stheno · 14-01-2014 10:47PM

Private sale rules apply here so it's caveat emptor, up to the buyer to ensure what they buy is fine

They have no comeback

I'd not be using your mechanic again if I was you however.

Supergurrier · 14-01-2014 10:47PM

Get a receipt off the mechanic, hang onto it.

Job done

jimmycrackcorm · 14-01-2014 10:50PM

It might not be so clear cut though - caveat emptor normally applies but if it can be shown that the buyer was deliberately misled then all bets are off as it is theft by deception.

listermint · 14-01-2014 10:52PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It might not be so clear cut though - caveat emptor normally applies but if it can be shown that the buyer was deliberately misled then all bets are off as it is theft by deception.

I cant see how that could be shown, solicitor might take the case to get some cash out of the buyer for the crack. But he will end up paying more for it. The buyer is a tool if he procedes with that sort of action.

biko · 14-01-2014 10:59PM

OP, you will keep getting the same answer in this new thread.
I am merging the two threads about the same issue together.

You will not get legal advice on this site. If you are worried see a local solicitor to get legal advice.

Soarer · 14-01-2014 10:59PM

So he had the car for 2 weeks and comes crying when something goes wrong? With a dealer, yeah. Privately, not a hope.

BTW, what happened to the assessor he was supposed to be getting the other day?

rockdj316 · 14-01-2014 11:15PM

Soarer wrote: »

So he had the car for 2 weeks and comes crying when something goes wrong? With a dealer, yeah. Privately, not a hope.

BTW, what happened to the assessor he was supposed to be getting the other day?

Doing the solicitor then the accessor tomorrow so he is apparently.

rockdj316 · 14-01-2014 11:19PM

biko wrote: »

OP, you will keep getting the same answer in this new thread.
I am merging the two threads about the same issue together.

You will not get legal advice on this site. If you are worried see a local solicitor to get legal advice.

Hi miko,
Thanks for merging the posts,just wanted to see today if this has happened anyone more than anything trying to get a general feel.
Thanks again though!

rockdj316 · 14-01-2014 11:20PM

rockdj316 wrote: »

Hi miko,
Thanks for merging the posts,just wanted to see today if this has happened anyone more than anything trying to get a general feel.
Thanks again though!

Biko even

road_high · 14-01-2014 11:25PM

This was a 01 1.6 petrol Laguna? Seriously, what is the book value (if that's the appropriate word!) of this? €200?
Feck the solicitor will cost him more per hour than the car was ever probably worth. That's if he even bothers (unlikely in my view).

shamanpriest · 16-01-2014 10:19PM

When selling anything (a car for example) the general rule of thumb is buyer beware unless you (the seller) made a statement contract (written or verbal) with the buyer.

For example the seller advertises in print that the car is in excellent condition, then the seller is in effect almost guaranteeing that he/she (the seller) to their knowledge know of no fault with the vehicle.

If the buyer was then to discover that there was what could be considered an obvious or disguised fault with the vehicle, He/She (the buyer) has cause for breach of contract in a civil court (small claims etc).

In your case it sounds like the buyer has a case against your mechanic (and less against you), Especially if you can prove that you enlisted the mechanic to do the cam/ timing belt and pump etc. IF you still have the receipt or job spec from the mechanic, you are off the hook.

I would advise you to take another look at your advert or statements of the sale, remember a contract can be written or verbal.

shamanpriest · 16-01-2014 11:01PM

Took the time to go through all the replies on this subject and I am in agreement with Jimmy (I Think is name).

Buyer beware is the usual conclusion, however this is less about the vehicle sold and more about the contract made between seller and buyer.

As I stated before an advert selling the car or a statement as to the condition of the car, by the seller can be considered as a binding contract. In this case the seller stated that the belt/s & pump were done prior to the sale, IF they were NOT done as advertised (promised in contract) then the seller has broken the contract by misrepresenting the item for sale.

Very much like selling a rolled gold (gold plated) ring as 9 ct gold, If the advert states that the ring is 9ct gold and days/weeks later the new owner finds out the ring is gold plated. Then the seller misrepresented the item for sale and thus broke the contract between buyer and seller.

It is now up to the seller to get confirmation from his/her mechanic that indeed the belt/s were replaced. If they were not then the seller can be pursued by the buyer for compensation and in turn the seller will have to seek compensation from the mechanic.

This is because the contract of vehicle sale is between the buyer and seller, the contract of repair is between the seller and his/her mechanic. In other words the buyer has no contract with the mechanic..

emeldc · 16-01-2014 11:15PM

shamanpriest wrote: »

Took the time to go through all the replies on this subject and I am in agreement with Jimmy (I Think is name).

Buyer beware is the usual conclusion, however this is less about the vehicle sold and more about the contract made between seller and buyer.

As I stated before an advert selling the car or a statement as to the condition of the car, by the seller can be considered as a binding contract. In this case the seller stated that the belt/s & pump were done prior to the sale, IF they were NOT done as advertised (promised in contract) then the seller has broken the contract by misrepresenting the item for sale.

Very much like selling a rolled gold (gold plated) ring as 9 ct gold, If the advert states that the ring is 9ct gold and days/weeks later the new owner finds out the ring is gold plated. Then the seller misrepresented the item for sale and thus broke the contract between buyer and seller.

It is now up to the seller to get confirmation from his/her mechanic that indeed the belt/s were replaced. If they were not then the seller can be pursued by the buyer for compensation and in turn the seller will have to seek compensation from the mechanic.

This is because the contract of vehicle sale is between the buyer and seller, the contract of repair is between the seller and his/her mechanic. In other words the buyer has no contract with the mechanic..

I'm sure you speak the truth. Can you point us to any case in law where this has actually been successful.
As the sellers idea of excellent condition or 'mint' as they are sometimes called can be poles apart from my idea of same, how do I prove that his idea was false?

shamanpriest · 16-01-2014 11:48PM

Hi Emeldc,

I can't think of one off hand, but I will research a couple and put the links on here tomorrow if that helps.

You are correct regarding the difference between the sellers idea of Excellent/ mint and what the buyer might consider to be excellent/mint.

Simply put the buyer would have to prove that the seller was untruthful in their description.

For example a TV is advertised and sold as being in mint condition/Like New and later the screen fails, the buyers engineer states that the TV had been previously opened and repaired (lets say screen damage). In this situation the seller has misrepresented the TV, by not stating that the TV was at one time repaired. Thus the TV was not as advertised in Mint condition and like new.

This is only my understanding of contract law, it's not so much about the TV, but instead about misrepresentation. I am not a lawyer just a layman. I will check on contact law as it applies to Ireland just in case it differs to mainland Europe, Australia etc.

A friend took a civil case about 10 years ago on car stereo equipment to small claims court, produced the advert which stated that the item was brand new and with warranty (but second hand). The seller refused to refund, replace or repair the item. My friend was awarded the full amount on the basis that the seller misrepresented the goods for sale and failed to honour the warranty stated as was advertised.

shamanpriest · 17-01-2014 01:54AM

Hi Emeldc,

Turns out that the law regarding private sales is a dark a murky arena in Ireland.

Regarding vehicles, the law is confusing to say the very least, for example in general there is no comeback unless the buyer can prove that the seller sold a vehicle that could be considered dangerous or not roadworthy. That said, even the experts can't actually agree on this either. The impression I get is that the law concerning private automobile sales has yet to be tested. The only option I can find is the small claims court however there is an upper limit of €2,000.

Re: contract law, it appears that contracts are only recognized if between a dealer and buyer or between dealers, in other words commercial dealings only, unlike the US, Canada and to my knowledge Australia.

Advertising law is also murky, it appears that here also the private seller/ private buyer relationship is very low on the ladder when it comes to getting justice and again the only options I can find is Citizens advice, the Police (Gardai in fraud cases) and the small claims court.

There are advertising standards which all advert agents must/should abide by and thus impose on their customers, however it appears to be a voluntary code of conduct as opposed to legally enforced.

Was going to say hope this helps, but it rather confuses the issues even more unless you are quite wealthy and willing to take your case all the way.

keithclancy · 17-01-2014 09:14AM

shamanpriest wrote: »

When selling anything (a car for example) the general rule of thumb is buyer beware unless you (the seller) made a statement contract (written or verbal) with the buyer.

For example the seller advertises in print that the car is in excellent condition, then the seller is in effect almost guaranteeing that he/she (the seller) to their knowledge know of no fault with the vehicle.

If the buyer was then to discover that there was what could be considered an obvious or disguised fault with the vehicle, He/She (the buyer) has cause for breach of contract in a civil court (small claims etc).

In your case it sounds like the buyer has a case against your mechanic (and less against you), Especially if you can prove that you enlisted the mechanic to do the cam/ timing belt and pump etc. IF you still have the receipt or job spec from the mechanic, you are off the hook.

I would advise you to take another look at your advert or statements of the sale, remember a contract can be written or verbal.

Buyer has no case against the mechanic as he has no contract with the mechanic (i.e. he did not pay the mechanic any money)

viper006 · 17-01-2014 09:41AM

shamanpriest wrote: »

If the buyer was then to discover that there was what could be considered an obvious or disguised fault with the vehicle, He/She (the buyer) has cause for breach of contract in a civil court (small claims etc).
l.

The bit in bold is completely wrong anyways relating to the small claims court.. you cant bring another private individual to the small claims court. At the end of the day it is a case of buyer beware.

Surely though you have a receipt for the work done or could get one to prove work done? That would resolve the problem straight away. As the buyer if you cudnt even supply that hed have every right to think you didnt get the work done but in reality the buyer wont have any comeback here. If you do a google of comeback on private car sales , i never seen one have a successful resolution for the buyer on a priavte car sale when they try to go back the legal road.

cerastes · 17-01-2014 05:15PM

emeldc wrote: »

I'm sure you speak the truth. Can you point us to any case in law where this has actually been successful.
As the sellers idea of excellent condition or 'mint' as they are sometimes called can be poles apart from my idea of same, how do I prove that his idea was false?

Surely its one thing to describe an item as mint condition which is clearly open to interpretation, and could be checked upon inspection on many items, even including say the body work of a car,
compared to
stating in an advert that a timing belt is done on a car, not something that is available for inspection, or that a buyer wouldnt have the experience to check.
Without a receipt, no matter how truthful the seller is, s/he cant really prove the timing belt was paid for so advertising it as such could easily be construed as deceit even if it was sold in good faith, if it was paid to be done by the seller and they have a receipt and it wasn't done, then thats another story as the seller sold it in good faith.

how much was this car op?

rockdj316 · 16-08-2015 05:15PM

cerastes wrote: »

Surely its one thing to describe an item as mint condition which is clearly open to interpretation, and could be checked upon inspection on many items, even including say the body work of a car,
compared to
stating in an advert that a timing belt is done on a car, not something that is available for inspection, or that a buyer wouldnt have the experience to check.
Without a receipt, no matter how truthful the seller is, s/he cant really prove the timing belt was paid for so advertising it as such could easily be construed as deceit even if it was sold in good faith, if it was paid to be done by the seller and they have a receipt and it wasn't done, then thats another story as the seller sold it in good faith.

how much was this car op?

Twas all sorted in the end haha. turns out he's been up to this in the past. Didn't he figit with the water pump and take the car for a long drive over a few days. Dirty rat! The garage actually did the pump AND timing belt and had photographic proof.

antodeco · 16-08-2015 08:11PM

Does he still have the car 2 years after you sold it?? :rolleyes:

rockdj316 · 16-08-2015 09:18PM

rockdj316 wrote: »

Twas all sorted in the end haha. turns out he's been up to this in the past. Didn't he figit with the water pump and take the car for a long drive over a few days. Dirty rat! The garage actually did the pump AND timing belt and had photographic proof.

Nope. But he only sold it 2 months ago. I know because of mutual friends ........aaaaannndd because he now works at the end of my road. He tried telling me that he found out who my mechanic was and he went to him and the mechanic said he didn't do anything to the car. The mechanic literally had no idea who he was as he never called to him. Complete idiot.

(Old thread) Fixed parts, sold car, new owner says part was never fixed!

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