Are all Bikram teachers fully qualified?

purethick wrote: »

Maybe it was their first couple classes after certification and they were nervous?


Yes....actually it seems they've branched out to other locations now The Fall 2014 Teacher Training will be in Phuket, THAILAND


Well given that they regularly get 40+ people in a class and I've been in classes with 60+ and the average cost per class is say €16; therefore the studio is regularly taking in (40*16) €640 for a single class, I imagine they have to pay the instructors something decent (€80-€100 per class?).

<mild rant>
I've no idea why anyone would want to be a bikram instructor though, you might as well get a tape recorder and hit play for each class - you just end up being a parrot -> "ONLY Bikram's Beginning Yoga Class dialogue used".
In fact here's is the mandatory dialogue. You'd just go insane having to come out with that by rote each class.

Also how on earth can an instructor keep an eye on a class with that many students in it, I've regularly seen people in class with really bad form and not being corrected. If the ethos was about quality instruction then they would put a limit on class sizes...but it seems that it's profit before people.

As you may be able to tell I used to be a bikram belieber but no longer. I think it's only safe for people who are reasonably fit, injury free and are very clear on correct form and the consequences of bad form. If you tick all those boxes then I reckon it is relatively safe to do - I still do the occasional class myself.
I do have a major issue with their one size fits all approach; people are different...and have do regularly have various temporary or permanent ailments. Bikram classes takes none of this into account.

Also Bikram Choudhury's greed and vice like grip on the franchise is just plain ugly; e.g. trying for years to trademark yoga poses - wtf??
</mild rant>

I'm probably setting myself up here for an interesting backlash here :-)

I do have to agree with you on this, I qualified as a Dru yoga teacher last year and we were told that safely - 16 should be the maximum in the class. I've been to many classes in Dublin where the teacher can't possibly see everyone and make sure they are doing everything correctly. Unfortunately as places to rent to teach in are so expensive, a lot of people will cram you all in to try and make some kind of profit. Some of the places I've see were €90 an hour and I was told "sure you'll fit 30 people at least in" - as I can't safely teach 30 people on my own I said no to the room.

You really do have to judge for yourself when you go to a class - if it doesn't feel right, then it isn't - say something, even if its just to e-mail them afterwards and say how disappointed you are - yoga is supposed to be about looking after yourself and being kind to your body.

I've been going to Ringsend for 6 months and can only speak about my experience there. With regard to Muff's complaints above about the studio he/she attended, that may well have been the case but it is most definitely not the case in Ringsend, in terms of both etiquette and instructors.

Regarding the more general issues raised above about Bikram, I have found the average attendance at my classes to be anywhere between 10-20, occasionally going up to 25-30. The instructors do, I think, keep a close eye on peoples' technique and constantly issue corrective instructions on top of the dialogue. As regards people injuring themselves, I think there is also an element of personal responsibility involved, and as none of the actions involve sudden, sharp movements the fact that one slowly assumes a posture means surely that warning signs would become obvious gradually.

When I started I was neither reasonably fit nor completely injury-free, and 6 months on I'm the fittest I've ever been and my chronic knee injury and sciatica have cleared up, all this at the age of 53. My form is still not great in most of the postures but it's improving all the time, and I relish the challenge every class brings; which brings me on to another point - I actually enjoy the repetitiveness of the class. It allows me set measureable goals and continually assess my progress. The heat (which I like anyway) and challenge of the class structure has helped me develop my concentration enormously. I take the point that the repetitiveness of the dialogue may be an issue for instructors, but really that's their problem.

Yes, Bikram Choudhury may be neither the most agreeable nor altruistic person around, but the laptop I'm typing on was made in China, and I'd have serious concerns about human rights in that country. It's a clumsily-made point I know but I can manage to divorce his personality from the classes I attend.

It occurs to me now that the original thread question asked whether all Bikram teachers are fully qualified! Really it's a question for the studios - whether their 'franchise' arrangements have such a requirement. I imagine they do, given Mr BC's considerable acumen. I've no complaints at all about any of the instruction I've received in Ringsend, and should also point out I've no personal connection to the studio other than as a customer.

i've being going to haralds cross for over two years and know a lot of the people in the classes and had never heard anything about injuries happening during the class. I have heard on numerous occasions the benefits people have gotten from starting bikram, young, old, fit, unfit, underweight, over weight all do what the can do and reap the results.

Muff Richardson wrote: »

I went to Bikram quite a bit when I lived overseas, I went to one studio in Dublin when i got back for a few sessions and found it to be fairly rubbish at best, pack in as many as possible regardless of how much room was available, you generally ended up directly behind some latecomer who plonked her fat hole down half way thru the breathing exercise...needless to say that was the end of your session before it started, was €18 by the way and was in an absolute sh*thole of a studio. the last time i went, there was a guy giving the class with a gut the size of an inflated tractor wheel tube, something tells me he wasn't qualified, just a hunch. not to mention his delivery was like a spin class instructor on a few grams of grade A speed.

the packing in of people combined with Irish etiquette, as in non-existent etiquette means a whole lot of disappointment here with going to and attending things here, from the cinema to trying to wind down in a sauna after the gym. we cant do things properly here, each and every person out for themselves most of the time and totally uninterested in any consideration for others.

Is it just Irish and fat people you don't like or fat Irish people or I guess guess its probably just people in general. Hope you've booked that return ticket.

Muff Richardson wrote: »

New year diet not going too well then? Try almonds instead of Pringles

I can assure you I have no weight issues.

Even if I had at least weight can be lost as for your issues they I'm sure they are ingrained at this stage.

siochain wrote: »

i've being going to haralds cross for over two years and know a lot of the people in the classes and had never heard anything about injuries happening during the class. I have heard on numerous occasions the benefits people have gotten from starting bikram, young, old, fit, unfit, underweight, over weight all do what the can do and reap the results.

Yup, I've been doing Bikram on and off for over 10 years and have heard loads of positive stories too. I didn't have any ailments myself but I loved what it did to physical strength and mental strength. As I said earlier, I used to be a belieber and would frequently recommend it to people.

However I'd like to know your thoughts on the following:-
1) are all humans built the same?
2) do Bikram instructors take into account people's individual pre-existing conditions? (I haven't seen this is any class I've been in)
3) do you think that going into such deep postures (and the heat allows the postures to be so much deeper) with bad form could be bad for your joints, ligaments and skeletal system?
4) can a single instructor keep an eye on each individual in a really busy class (and classes are frequently packed, seriously packed, at peak times in the studios I've been to)
5) based on the above, and if you apply critical thinking, do you think that a one size fits all approach is completely appropriate (i.e. safe) for all students of varying conditions and experiences? Just because the oft used phrase "Bikram says" doesn't make it so.

One small point in relation to point 4) and someone else saying that the problem seems to only be an Irish issue of over crowding; I disagree, it's endemic...

That's all I'm trying to convey. If you are reasonably fit and know correct form and your bodies limitations (and stay within them) then Bikram can work for you. If you don't you are potentially setting yourself up for some serious problems down the road, e.g. joint instability.

I suggest that new people do a different type of yoga first with a good instructor in a small class where you can get individual attention so that you can learn correct form and get your own body awareness; then you should be good to go with Bikram; assuming you don't have osteo or other conditions like that.
e.g. Iyengar is a good style as it focuses on the precision of each pose plus they also use props (cause not everyone is built the same / has the same level of flexibility).

Also there are also plenty of negative anecdotal stories on the web, but I'm not going to quote any here. All I'm just suggesting that people engage in critical thinking, especially when they hear the phrase "Bikram says ..."

siochain wrote: »

I'm quite experience in coaching groups and individuals in other areas

But I'm not talking about you - I'm sure what you do is great and really diligent.

siochain wrote: »

I see your question as pointless in answering.

Mmmm hmmm.

siochain wrote: »

when stating bikram you are required to sign a form declaring any ailments.

A waiver, yes. Are you saying that each instructor glances though everyones' pre-existing conditions before a class (and for sake of simplicity I'm talking about the mega busy classes)? I haven't seen any evidence of that. It would be hard enough to even remember the names of half of the people in the class.

siochain wrote: »

it's up to the individual to scale accordinging and stop if they are under to much stress and risk if injury.

Yes! Exactly - but in Bikram all I've ever heard is "push, push push, go further, go as far as you can go, go beyond what you think you can do".
I've never heard them say "listen to your own body" "go gently until you have done x amount of classes" "you are responsibile yourself". Instead I hear during class that Bikram cures most ailments for everyone from all walks of life regardless of pre-existing conditions.

siochain wrote: »

Personally Bikram has help me in many areas and my mobility is better that ever and I have a lot of damage and miles on the clock.

That's great and I'm sure you are very body aware from what you describe above. What about the other punters who aren't?

siochain wrote: »

How many injuries have you witnessed in your years of doing bikram

I've been told by other regulars about lots of tweaks (you tend to hear about them after someone returns to classes after missing for several weeks). I've even tweaked my lower back myself (probably from camel pose).
However I'm not going to base my argument on anecdotal stories - I'm basing it on the points I've made above and I'm suggesting to others that they have a think about this.

If you want more anecdotal evidence and also medical evidence then search google for bikram injuries, bikram joint instability, bikram hypermobility.

purethick wrote: »

However I'd like to know your thoughts on the following:-
1) are all humans built the same? This is fairly obvious
2) do Bikram instructors take into account people's individual pre-existing conditions? (I haven't seen this is any class I've been in). Impossible and this goes for any type of yoga classes in a busy school. The responsibility is on the individual to highlight any issues.

3) do you think that going into such deep postures (and the heat allows the postures to be so much deeper) with bad form could be bad for your joints, ligaments and skeletal system? It could easy be stated that the heat and flexibility with help protect. After all the guidance for any sport or activity is to warm up.

4) can a single instructor keep an eye on each individual in a really busy class (and classes are frequently packed, seriously packed, at peak times in the studios I've been to) Yeah packed with adults not kids, same could be said for for any yoga class. Not everyone needs handholding if you can follow instructure.

5) based on the above, and if you apply critical thinking, do you think that a one size fits all approach is completely appropriate (i.e. safe) for all students of varying conditions and experiences? Of course it’s never one size bits all this was never in question.

That's all I'm trying to convey. Conveying and unbalanced personal opinion.
If you are reasonably fit and know correct form and your bodies limitations (and stay within them) then Bikram can work for you. If you don't you are potentially setting yourself up for some serious problems down the road, e.g. joint instability.
I’ve seen very elder start as new members and thrive. Some have hobbled into the first class and moved around much better after a few weeks. I guy I see regularly at class came of blood pressure meds after two months, if he had have taken up walking it probably would have had the same effect……. I’ve seen very unfit people thrive after a few weeks of sticking it out.

purethick wrote: »

A waiver, yes. Are you saying that each instructor glances though everyones' pre-existing conditions before a class (and for sake of simplicity I'm talking about the mega busy classes)? I haven't seen any evidence of that. It would be hard enough to even remember the names of half of the people in the class. No and I haven’t seen it any other yoga, sport, or fitness class. Again these are adults they are responsible to making the teacher aware of any issues.

Yes! Exactly - but in Bikram all I've ever heard is "push, push push, go further, go as far as you can go, go beyond what you think you can do". I’ve heard encouragement to push and go but never to ‘go beyond what you think you can do’ that’s rubbish. A teacher\coach is there for encouragement to work hard at the movement. If this is not someone’s cup of tea then try something else.

I've never heard them say "listen to your own body" "go gently until you have done x amount of classes" "you are responsibile yourself". You are told this in the introduction when you sign up, if as an adult you need to be reminded every class they should leave the house never mind attend a class. And of course your responsible for you self. Aren’t you responsible for you what you do at all times?

Instead I hear during class that Bikram cures most ailments for everyone from all walks of life regardless of pre-existing conditions. Yeah and many other types of yoga have things like chanting (which is OK if that’s your thing) that people may not like and you hear all sorts of claims about postures in general.

That's great and I'm sure you are very body aware from what you describe above. What about the other punters who aren't? Seriously? Tough, if you can’t be responsible for your self doing some stretching maybe take up ‘bingo’ no maybe not cause might get knocked down crossing the road on the way.

I've been told by other regulars about lots of tweaks (you tend to hear about them after someone returns to classes after missing for several weeks). I've even tweaked my lower back myself (probably from camel pose). People get teaks getting out of bed in the morning or picking up a box. You can be assured they would be a lot less teaks happening of more people did bikram or other types of yoga.

However I'm not going to base my argument on anecdotal stories - I'm basing it on the points I've made above and I'm suggesting to others that they have a think about this

People should try a class and make their own mind up there’s positives and risk to anything in life.
If you want more anecdotal evidence and also medical evidence then search google for bikram injuries, bikram joint instability, bikram hypermobility. Yes we can all work google to find an argument for anything if you search for benefits to bikram yoga you’ll get a difference set of results.

In fairness you made a very unbalanced assessment of Bikram, there are way more benefits than there are risks in fact if you’re an adult with average intelligence the risks are minimal and no more than taking up any other type of class. Way blown out of proportion. And yes a lot of the other traditional yoga teachers do slag it off, probably because the see it as a treat. As you say the classes are packed most days, all those people can’t be wrong.


Do I agree with the founder Bikram Choudhury philosophy and business model? No
Do I think there are positive benefits to Birkam yoga? Definitely.
Are there any more risks when compared to walking your dog? No
Will it be everyone’s cup of tea? No. But it’s one of the few sectors in the fitness and leisure industry that’s growing over the last few years.
Try it for yourself and make your own mind up.

Pembily wrote: »

If someone is new to a sport how do they know what too much stress is? How can they compare over exertion to just enough exertion? When new to a sport one may think their posture and form is correct based on what they see the teacher doing but that is not always the case. Advice is all well and good but I personally think it's more beneficial to have individualish attention.

People pay for a class to be taught the correct technique!

OP there are lots of hot Yoga classes so I would suggest trying another one. Even if a teacher is qualified doesn't mean they will hold the type of class you prefer. I prefer smaller classes but some people don't mind a bigger class.

Our wonderful bodies are very good at telling us when its under-stress. If you over doing something it well tell you via, pain signaling, increased heart rate or increased breathing.

Individual attention is great but the you pay for one on one classes. Is there any type of yoga where don't develop the correct technique over time. For years I've been involved in sports either part-taking and now coaching, I'm still picking up technique.

bonzo_k wrote: »

You can get rsi based injuries from improper alignment in many postures. This does not present itself in pain while you are causing this injury.

yes this can happen from using your mouse too. RSI is not unique to Bikram.

MOD NOTE:This is going around in circles and the OP asked if all bikram teachers are qualified, not the benefits etc of bikram.

Seriously who do you know that's not body aware? And quantify how many you know who pushed themselves too far and what were the consequences?

Really clutching at straws now taking the focus off the facts by bringing up ownership and troll. I don't have a vested interest I just don't like biased BS on the net which may but someone off something that in most cases is very beneficial to there health and well being.

In the current times where the lack of exercise and over consumption of processed foods is driving so many illness we should be encouraging people to get up and move.

purethick wrote: »

Yup, I've been doing Bikram on and off for over 10 years and have heard loads of positive stories too.

Why not a balanced post with all the positive stories you have?

siochain wrote: »

discussions evolve that's what makes them interesting. If someone posts BS it should be pointed out people so can make and independent judgement.

MOD NOTE: That's irrelevant if a mod says get back on track get back on track. Also mod notes shouldn't be questioned on thread. If you've an issue with it PM the mods.

siochain wrote: »

discussions evolve that's what makes them interesting.

+1

siochain wrote: »

If someone posts BS

Let's stay away from ad hominem territory please - rational discourse only