Are all Bikram teachers fully qualified?

christeb

A general query following on from a class I attended recently. The teacher seemed a little out of her depth. Class was paced too quickly, she even turned off the heaters halfway and only turned them back on when requested to from a student. I got through the whole class without water, which again is an exception.

Got me wondering: are all Bikram teachers certified from Bikram's studio in LA? The costs are high: ca. €10,000 for the course, with flights, expenses and missed earnings making this figure much higher in reality. I can't imagine the pay for a teacher in Dublin is great (unless you own a studio).

I can't imagine I'll get a full answer to this here, but curious nonetheless!

purethick

christeb wrote: »

The teacher seemed a little out of her depth. Class was paced too quickly,

Maybe it was their first couple classes after certification and they were nervous?

christeb wrote: »

are all Bikram teachers certified from Bikram's studio in LA?

Yes....actually it seems they've branched out to other locations now The Fall 2014 Teacher Training will be in Phuket, THAILAND

christeb wrote: »

The costs are high: ca. €10,000 for the course, with flights, expenses and missed earnings making this figure much higher in reality. I can't imagine the pay for a teacher in Dublin is great (unless you own a studio).

Well given that they regularly get 40+ people in a class and I've been in classes with 60+ and the average cost per class is say €16; therefore the studio is regularly taking in (40*16) €640 for a single class, I imagine they have to pay the instructors something decent (€80-€100 per class?).

<mild rant>
I've no idea why anyone would want to be a bikram instructor though, you might as well get a tape recorder and hit play for each class - you just end up being a parrot -> "ONLY Bikram's Beginning Yoga Class dialogue used".
In fact here's is the mandatory dialogue. You'd just go insane having to come out with that by rote each class.

Also how on earth can an instructor keep an eye on a class with that many students in it, I've regularly seen people in class with really bad form and not being corrected. If the ethos was about quality instruction then they would put a limit on class sizes...but it seems that it's profit before people.

As you may be able to tell I used to be a bikram belieber but no longer. I think it's only safe for people who are reasonably fit, injury free and are very clear on correct form and the consequences of bad form. If you tick all those boxes then I reckon it is relatively safe to do - I still do the occasional class myself.
I do have a major issue with their one size fits all approach; people are different...and have do regularly have various temporary or permanent ailments. Bikram classes takes none of this into account.

Also Bikram Choudhury's greed and vice like grip on the franchise is just plain ugly; e.g. trying for years to trademark yoga poses - wtf??
</mild rant>

I'm probably setting myself up here for an interesting backlash here :-)

CBRLizzie

purethick wrote: »

Maybe it was their first couple classes after certification and they were nervous?


Yes....actually it seems they've branched out to other locations now The Fall 2014 Teacher Training will be in Phuket, THAILAND


Well given that they regularly get 40+ people in a class and I've been in classes with 60+ and the average cost per class is say €16; therefore the studio is regularly taking in (40*16) €640 for a single class, I imagine they have to pay the instructors something decent (€80-€100 per class?).

<mild rant>
I've no idea why anyone would want to be a bikram instructor though, you might as well get a tape recorder and hit play for each class - you just end up being a parrot -> "ONLY Bikram's Beginning Yoga Class dialogue used".
In fact here's is the mandatory dialogue. You'd just go insane having to come out with that by rote each class.

Also how on earth can an instructor keep an eye on a class with that many students in it, I've regularly seen people in class with really bad form and not being corrected. If the ethos was about quality instruction then they would put a limit on class sizes...but it seems that it's profit before people.

As you may be able to tell I used to be a bikram belieber but no longer. I think it's only safe for people who are reasonably fit, injury free and are very clear on correct form and the consequences of bad form. If you tick all those boxes then I reckon it is relatively safe to do - I still do the occasional class myself.
I do have a major issue with their one size fits all approach; people are different...and have do regularly have various temporary or permanent ailments. Bikram classes takes none of this into account.

Also Bikram Choudhury's greed and vice like grip on the franchise is just plain ugly; e.g. trying for years to trademark yoga poses - wtf??
</mild rant>

I'm probably setting myself up here for an interesting backlash here :-)

I do have to agree with you on this, I qualified as a Dru yoga teacher last year and we were told that safely - 16 should be the maximum in the class. I've been to many classes in Dublin where the teacher can't possibly see everyone and make sure they are doing everything correctly. Unfortunately as places to rent to teach in are so expensive, a lot of people will cram you all in to try and make some kind of profit. Some of the places I've see were €90 an hour and I was told "sure you'll fit 30 people at least in" - as I can't safely teach 30 people on my own I said no to the room.

You really do have to judge for yourself when you go to a class - if it doesn't feel right, then it isn't - say something, even if its just to e-mail them afterwards and say how disappointed you are - yoga is supposed to be about looking after yourself and being kind to your body.

yoginindublin

christeb wrote: »

A general query following on from a class I attended recently. The teacher seemed a little out of her depth. Class was paced too quickly, she even turned off the heaters halfway and only turned them back on when requested to from a student. I got through the whole class without water, which again is an exception.

Got me wondering: are all Bikram teachers certified from Bikram's studio in LA? The costs are high: ca. €10,000 for the course, with flights, expenses and missed earnings making this figure much higher in reality. I can't imagine the pay for a teacher in Dublin is great (unless you own a studio).

I can't imagine I'll get a full answer to this here, but curious nonetheless!

Hi! I have been wanting to try it out Bikram a few times. I am an ashtanga practitioner myself. Can you tell me which studio you went to?

Muff Richardson

I went to Bikram quite a bit when I lived overseas, I went to one studio in Dublin when i got back for a few sessions and found it to be fairly rubbish at best, pack in as many as possible regardless of how much room was available, you generally ended up directly behind some latecomer who plonked her fat hole down half way thru the breathing exercise...needless to say that was the end of your session before it started, was €18 by the way and was in an absolute sh*thole of a studio. the last time i went, there was a guy giving the class with a gut the size of an inflated tractor wheel tube, something tells me he wasn't qualified, just a hunch. not to mention his delivery was like a spin class instructor on a few grams of grade A speed.

the packing in of people combined with Irish etiquette, as in non-existent etiquette means a whole lot of disappointment here with going to and attending things here, from the cinema to trying to wind down in a sauna after the gym. we cant do things properly here, each and every person out for themselves most of the time and totally uninterested in any consideration for others.

purethick

yoginindublin wrote: »

Hi! I have been wanting to try it out Bikram a few times. I am an ashtanga practitioner myself. Can you tell me which studio you went to?

Hi yoginindublin,
Although you didn't ask me directly....you've got dublincitybikramyoga.com on Drury St (this place isn't that big and gets very packed because of its location -barely enough oxygen in the room to breathe properly at times).
bikramyoga.ie in Harolds Cross, huge place, peak time classes can max out (over 70 people :eek:). Facilities are really grim though, I really don't know why the owner won't spend some money to do it up.
The last one that I know about is inityoga.ie in Ringsend which I've never been to but I know people that have and they say that it has the nicest facilities.

There are other places in Dublin but I know nowt about them.

Hippo

I've been going to Ringsend for 6 months and can only speak about my experience there. With regard to Muff's complaints above about the studio he/she attended, that may well have been the case but it is most definitely not the case in Ringsend, in terms of both etiquette and instructors.

Regarding the more general issues raised above about Bikram, I have found the average attendance at my classes to be anywhere between 10-20, occasionally going up to 25-30. The instructors do, I think, keep a close eye on peoples' technique and constantly issue corrective instructions on top of the dialogue. As regards people injuring themselves, I think there is also an element of personal responsibility involved, and as none of the actions involve sudden, sharp movements the fact that one slowly assumes a posture means surely that warning signs would become obvious gradually.

When I started I was neither reasonably fit nor completely injury-free, and 6 months on I'm the fittest I've ever been and my chronic knee injury and sciatica have cleared up, all this at the age of 53. My form is still not great in most of the postures but it's improving all the time, and I relish the challenge every class brings; which brings me on to another point - I actually enjoy the repetitiveness of the class. It allows me set measureable goals and continually assess my progress. The heat (which I like anyway) and challenge of the class structure has helped me develop my concentration enormously. I take the point that the repetitiveness of the dialogue may be an issue for instructors, but really that's their problem.

Yes, Bikram Choudhury may be neither the most agreeable nor altruistic person around, but the laptop I'm typing on was made in China, and I'd have serious concerns about human rights in that country. It's a clumsily-made point I know but I can manage to divorce his personality from the classes I attend.

It occurs to me now that the original thread question asked whether all Bikram teachers are fully qualified! Really it's a question for the studios - whether their 'franchise' arrangements have such a requirement. I imagine they do, given Mr BC's considerable acumen. I've no complaints at all about any of the instruction I've received in Ringsend, and should also point out I've no personal connection to the studio other than as a customer.

purethick

Hippo wrote: »

The instructors do, I think, keep a close eye on peoples' technique and constantly issue corrective instructions on top of the dialogue.

That is definitely the most important aspect of what they are supposed to do. However I've been to a helluva a lot of Bikram classes in my time where I've seen lots of people with poor form (even with relatively low numbers in the class) and in classes with large numbers of people it's simply not feasible for a single instructor to observe all the participents.

Hippo wrote: »

When I started I was neither reasonably fit nor completely injury-free, and 6 months on I'm the fittest I've ever been and my chronic knee injury and sciatica have cleared up, all this at the age of 53.

It's had a dramatic effect on my physique too - and also it has helped with my own mental strength and determination (sometimes the class can be so tough you want to sit down but to keep going and just do the next pose aiming for 100% alignment and strength builds a certain toughness....for me anyhow). It's for these reasons I *used to* recommend it to a lot of people that I met.

Hippo wrote: »

As regards people injuring themselves, I think there is also an element of personal responsibility involved, and as none of the actions involve sudden, sharp movements the fact that one slowly assumes a posture means surely that warning signs would become obvious gradually.

Of course personal responsibility applies in all walks of life. However...

Hippo wrote: »

My form is still not great in most of the postures but it's improving all the time, and I relish the challenge every class brings; which brings me on to another point

And herein lies the crux. In the heated envornment of Bikram it's far too easy to end up overstretching your ligaments without realising it. Once you overstretch these structures beyond a certain point they don't return to their previous length as they are only partially elastic. This can compromise joint stability aka hypermobility or "loose joints". This problem is masked while you have good muscle tone but if (or should I say when) that muscle atrophies with age you will have a instability problem (potentially a major one)....unless your form is bang on and you know your own bodies limits.

As an example, examine the cueing for back-bends, "Look back, lean back, go back, way back, far back, fall back" where the instructors insist on pushing you to go into a very deep back-bend. This cueing is used for people who are there for the first time (as well as seasoned veterans) and this could be the first form of exercise they've done in aeons and in all likelihood they have no understanding of how to keep themselves safe.
On top of that the studios don't take into account peoples pre-existing injuries or ailments - there is just the blind belief that Bikram yoga cures everything via their one size fits all approach.

Hippo wrote: »

I actually enjoy the repetitiveness of the class. It allows me set measureable goals and continually assess my progress. The heat (which I like anyway) and challenge of the class structure has helped me develop my concentration enormously. I take the point that the repetitiveness of the dialogue may be an issue for instructors, but really that's their problem.

I'm with you 100% here - the repetitiveness aspect does work well from the students perspective (even though it sounds like it would become very boring very quickly).

Hippo wrote: »

It occurs to me now that the original thread question asked whether all Bikram teachers are fully qualified! Really it's a question for the studios - whether their 'franchise' arrangements have such a requirement. I imagine they do, given Mr BC's considerable acumen.

Yup I believe all instructors to be qualified otherwise they'd jeopardise the studio franchise.

siochain

i've being going to haralds cross for over two years and know a lot of the people in the classes and had never heard anything about injuries happening during the class. I have heard on numerous occasions the benefits people have gotten from starting bikram, young, old, fit, unfit, underweight, over weight all do what the can do and reap the results.

Muff Richardson wrote: »

I went to Bikram quite a bit when I lived overseas, I went to one studio in Dublin when i got back for a few sessions and found it to be fairly rubbish at best, pack in as many as possible regardless of how much room was available, you generally ended up directly behind some latecomer who plonked her fat hole down half way thru the breathing exercise...needless to say that was the end of your session before it started, was €18 by the way and was in an absolute sh*thole of a studio. the last time i went, there was a guy giving the class with a gut the size of an inflated tractor wheel tube, something tells me he wasn't qualified, just a hunch. not to mention his delivery was like a spin class instructor on a few grams of grade A speed.

the packing in of people combined with Irish etiquette, as in non-existent etiquette means a whole lot of disappointment here with going to and attending things here, from the cinema to trying to wind down in a sauna after the gym. we cant do things properly here, each and every person out for themselves most of the time and totally uninterested in any consideration for others.

Is it just Irish and fat people you don't like or fat Irish people or I guess guess its probably just people in general. Hope you've booked that return ticket.

Muff Richardson

siochain wrote: »

i've being going to haralds cross for over two years and know a lot of the people in the classes and had never heard anything about injuries happening during the class. I have heard on numerous occasions the benefits people have gotten from starting bikram, young, old, fit, unfit, underweight, over weight all do what the can do and reap the results.





Is it just Irish and fat people you don't like or fat Irish people or I guess guess its probably just people in general. Hope you've booked that return ticket.

New year diet not going too well then? Try almonds instead of Pringles

siochain

Muff Richardson wrote: »

New year diet not going too well then? Try almonds instead of Pringles

I can assure you I have no weight issues.

Even if I had at least weight can be lost as for your issues they I'm sure they are ingrained at this stage.

Pembily

Mod note: keep it civil and on topic. Enough with the sniping.

purethick

siochain wrote: »

i've being going to haralds cross for over two years and know a lot of the people in the classes and had never heard anything about injuries happening during the class. I have heard on numerous occasions the benefits people have gotten from starting bikram, young, old, fit, unfit, underweight, over weight all do what the can do and reap the results.

Yup, I've been doing Bikram on and off for over 10 years and have heard loads of positive stories too. I didn't have any ailments myself but I loved what it did to physical strength and mental strength. As I said earlier, I used to be a belieber and would frequently recommend it to people.

However I'd like to know your thoughts on the following:-
1) are all humans built the same?
2) do Bikram instructors take into account people's individual pre-existing conditions? (I haven't seen this is any class I've been in)
3) do you think that going into such deep postures (and the heat allows the postures to be so much deeper) with bad form could be bad for your joints, ligaments and skeletal system?
4) can a single instructor keep an eye on each individual in a really busy class (and classes are frequently packed, seriously packed, at peak times in the studios I've been to)
5) based on the above, and if you apply critical thinking, do you think that a one size fits all approach is completely appropriate (i.e. safe) for all students of varying conditions and experiences? Just because the oft used phrase "Bikram says" doesn't make it so.

One small point in relation to point 4) and someone else saying that the problem seems to only be an Irish issue of over crowding; I disagree, it's endemic...

That's all I'm trying to convey. If you are reasonably fit and know correct form and your bodies limitations (and stay within them) then Bikram can work for you. If you don't you are potentially setting yourself up for some serious problems down the road, e.g. joint instability.

I suggest that new people do a different type of yoga first with a good instructor in a small class where you can get individual attention so that you can learn correct form and get your own body awareness; then you should be good to go with Bikram; assuming you don't have osteo or other conditions like that.
e.g. Iyengar is a good style as it focuses on the precision of each pose plus they also use props (cause not everyone is built the same / has the same level of flexibility).

Also there are also plenty of negative anecdotal stories on the web, but I'm not going to quote any here. All I'm just suggesting that people engage in critical thinking, especially when they hear the phrase "Bikram says ..."

siochain

I'm quite experience in coaching groups and individuals in other areas so I see your question as pointless in answering.

When starting any sport, hobby, activity the the responsibity is the individual to declare any injuries or medical issues. And when stating bikram you are required to sign a form declaring any ailments.

If I'm coaching a kickboxing class, rugby session or a strenght and conditioning session it's up to the individual to scale accordinging and stop if they are under to much stress and risk if injury. I will provide technic on the skills, form and technic and look out for risk of injury. In Harold's cross I've heard loads of coaching and tips going on.

Personally Bikram has help me in many areas and my mobility is better that ever and I have a lot of damage and miles on the clock.

How many injuries have you witnessed in your years of doing bikram?

purethick

siochain wrote: »

I'm quite experience in coaching groups and individuals in other areas

But I'm not talking about you - I'm sure what you do is great and really diligent.

siochain wrote: »

I see your question as pointless in answering.

Mmmm hmmm.

siochain wrote: »

when stating bikram you are required to sign a form declaring any ailments.

A waiver, yes. Are you saying that each instructor glances though everyones' pre-existing conditions before a class (and for sake of simplicity I'm talking about the mega busy classes)? I haven't seen any evidence of that. It would be hard enough to even remember the names of half of the people in the class.

siochain wrote: »

it's up to the individual to scale accordinging and stop if they are under to much stress and risk if injury.

Yes! Exactly - but in Bikram all I've ever heard is "push, push push, go further, go as far as you can go, go beyond what you think you can do".
I've never heard them say "listen to your own body" "go gently until you have done x amount of classes" "you are responsibile yourself". Instead I hear during class that Bikram cures most ailments for everyone from all walks of life regardless of pre-existing conditions.

siochain wrote: »

Personally Bikram has help me in many areas and my mobility is better that ever and I have a lot of damage and miles on the clock.

That's great and I'm sure you are very body aware from what you describe above. What about the other punters who aren't?

siochain wrote: »

How many injuries have you witnessed in your years of doing bikram

I've been told by other regulars about lots of tweaks (you tend to hear about them after someone returns to classes after missing for several weeks). I've even tweaked my lower back myself (probably from camel pose).
However I'm not going to base my argument on anecdotal stories - I'm basing it on the points I've made above and I'm suggesting to others that they have a think about this.

If you want more anecdotal evidence and also medical evidence then search google for bikram injuries, bikram joint instability, bikram hypermobility.

Pembily

siochain wrote: »

When starting any sport, hobby, activity the the responsibity is the individual to declare any injuries or medical issues. And when stating bikram you are required to sign a form declaring any ailments.

If I'm coaching a kickboxing class, rugby session or a strenght and conditioning session it's up to the individual to scale accordinging and stop if they are under to much stress and risk if injury. I will provide technic on the skills, form and technic and look out for risk of injury. In Harold's cross I've heard loads of coaching and tips going on.

If someone is new to a sport how do they know what too much stress is? How can they compare over exertion to just enough exertion? When new to a sport one may think their posture and form is correct based on what they see the teacher doing but that is not always the case. Advice is all well and good but I personally think it's more beneficial to have individualish attention.

People pay for a class to be taught the correct technique!

OP there are lots of hot Yoga classes so I would suggest trying another one. Even if a teacher is qualified doesn't mean they will hold the type of class you prefer. I prefer smaller classes but some people don't mind a bigger class.

siochain

purethick wrote: »

However I'd like to know your thoughts on the following:-
1) are all humans built the same? This is fairly obvious
2) do Bikram instructors take into account people's individual pre-existing conditions? (I haven't seen this is any class I've been in). Impossible and this goes for any type of yoga classes in a busy school. The responsibility is on the individual to highlight any issues.

3) do you think that going into such deep postures (and the heat allows the postures to be so much deeper) with bad form could be bad for your joints, ligaments and skeletal system? It could easy be stated that the heat and flexibility with help protect. After all the guidance for any sport or activity is to warm up.

4) can a single instructor keep an eye on each individual in a really busy class (and classes are frequently packed, seriously packed, at peak times in the studios I've been to) Yeah packed with adults not kids, same could be said for for any yoga class. Not everyone needs handholding if you can follow instructure.

5) based on the above, and if you apply critical thinking, do you think that a one size fits all approach is completely appropriate (i.e. safe) for all students of varying conditions and experiences? Of course it’s never one size bits all this was never in question.

That's all I'm trying to convey. Conveying and unbalanced personal opinion.
If you are reasonably fit and know correct form and your bodies limitations (and stay within them) then Bikram can work for you. If you don't you are potentially setting yourself up for some serious problems down the road, e.g. joint instability.
I’ve seen very elder start as new members and thrive. Some have hobbled into the first class and moved around much better after a few weeks. I guy I see regularly at class came of blood pressure meds after two months, if he had have taken up walking it probably would have had the same effect……. I’ve seen very unfit people thrive after a few weeks of sticking it out.

purethick wrote: »

A waiver, yes. Are you saying that each instructor glances though everyones' pre-existing conditions before a class (and for sake of simplicity I'm talking about the mega busy classes)? I haven't seen any evidence of that. It would be hard enough to even remember the names of half of the people in the class. No and I haven’t seen it any other yoga, sport, or fitness class. Again these are adults they are responsible to making the teacher aware of any issues.

Yes! Exactly - but in Bikram all I've ever heard is "push, push push, go further, go as far as you can go, go beyond what you think you can do". I’ve heard encouragement to push and go but never to ‘go beyond what you think you can do’ that’s rubbish. A teacher\coach is there for encouragement to work hard at the movement. If this is not someone’s cup of tea then try something else.

I've never heard them say "listen to your own body" "go gently until you have done x amount of classes" "you are responsibile yourself". You are told this in the introduction when you sign up, if as an adult you need to be reminded every class they should leave the house never mind attend a class. And of course your responsible for you self. Aren’t you responsible for you what you do at all times?

Instead I hear during class that Bikram cures most ailments for everyone from all walks of life regardless of pre-existing conditions. Yeah and many other types of yoga have things like chanting (which is OK if that’s your thing) that people may not like and you hear all sorts of claims about postures in general.

That's great and I'm sure you are very body aware from what you describe above. What about the other punters who aren't? Seriously? Tough, if you can’t be responsible for your self doing some stretching maybe take up ‘bingo’ no maybe not cause might get knocked down crossing the road on the way.

I've been told by other regulars about lots of tweaks (you tend to hear about them after someone returns to classes after missing for several weeks). I've even tweaked my lower back myself (probably from camel pose). People get teaks getting out of bed in the morning or picking up a box. You can be assured they would be a lot less teaks happening of more people did bikram or other types of yoga.

However I'm not going to base my argument on anecdotal stories - I'm basing it on the points I've made above and I'm suggesting to others that they have a think about this

People should try a class and make their own mind up there’s positives and risk to anything in life.
If you want more anecdotal evidence and also medical evidence then search google for bikram injuries, bikram joint instability, bikram hypermobility. Yes we can all work google to find an argument for anything if you search for benefits to bikram yoga you’ll get a difference set of results.

In fairness you made a very unbalanced assessment of Bikram, there are way more benefits than there are risks in fact if you’re an adult with average intelligence the risks are minimal and no more than taking up any other type of class. Way blown out of proportion. And yes a lot of the other traditional yoga teachers do slag it off, probably because the see it as a treat. As you say the classes are packed most days, all those people can’t be wrong.


Do I agree with the founder Bikram Choudhury philosophy and business model? No
Do I think there are positive benefits to Birkam yoga? Definitely.
Are there any more risks when compared to walking your dog? No
Will it be everyone’s cup of tea? No. But it’s one of the few sectors in the fitness and leisure industry that’s growing over the last few years.
Try it for yourself and make your own mind up.

bonzo_k

I have practiced ashtanga yoga for many years and I can assure you that people do require individual instruction for the most basic of postures not to mention more advanced asana. Some of the postures in bikram are advanced postures nd would require adaptation for a beginner. I have never been to a bikram class but I find it hard to believe that individual instruction is not given. Sounds like a recipe for injury to me. Hopefully that is not the case.

siochain

Pembily wrote: »

If someone is new to a sport how do they know what too much stress is? How can they compare over exertion to just enough exertion? When new to a sport one may think their posture and form is correct based on what they see the teacher doing but that is not always the case. Advice is all well and good but I personally think it's more beneficial to have individualish attention.

People pay for a class to be taught the correct technique!

OP there are lots of hot Yoga classes so I would suggest trying another one. Even if a teacher is qualified doesn't mean they will hold the type of class you prefer. I prefer smaller classes but some people don't mind a bigger class.

Our wonderful bodies are very good at telling us when its under-stress. If you over doing something it well tell you via, pain signaling, increased heart rate or increased breathing.

Individual attention is great but the you pay for one on one classes. Is there any type of yoga where don't develop the correct technique over time. For years I've been involved in sports either part-taking and now coaching, I'm still picking up technique.

bonzo_k

siochain wrote: »

Our wonderful bodies are very good at telling us when its under-stress. If you over doing something it well tell you via, pain signaling, increased heart rate or increased breathing.

Individual attention is great but the you pay for one on one classes. Is there any type of yoga where don't develop the correct technique over time. For years I've been involved in sports either part-taking and now coaching, I'm still picking up technique.

You can get rsi based injuries from improper alignment in many postures. This does not present itself in pain while you are causing this injury.

siochain

bonzo_k wrote: »

You can get rsi based injuries from improper alignment in many postures. This does not present itself in pain while you are causing this injury.

yes this can happen from using your mouse too. RSI is not unique to Bikram.

siochain

bonzo_k wrote: »

I have practiced ashtanga yoga for many years and I can assure you that people do require individual instruction for the most basic of postures not to mention more advanced asana. Some of the postures in bikram are advanced postures nd would require adaptation for a beginner. I have never been to a bikram class but I find it hard to believe that individual instruction is not given. Sounds like a recipe for injury to me. Hopefully that is not the case.

This is not the case for beginners from my experience, I have practiced in 3 different studios and beginners are always given attention. If its a big class and the teacher doesn't know everyone they will ask if there are new people.

bonzo_k

siochain wrote: »

yes this can happen from using your mouse too. RSI is not unique to Bikram.

Yes you can, my point was that you need to be shown proper form otherwise you are risk of it developing.

purethick

siochain wrote: »

in fact if you’re an adult with average intelligence the risks are minimal and no more than taking up any other type of class.

People expect the instructors to know what they are doing, so they frequently just do as they are told. Listen to the verbal cueing that is used in Bikram; it pushes most people who are inexperienced and not body aware way too deep into the postures.

siochain wrote: »

Way blown out of proportion. And yes a lot of the other traditional yoga teachers do slag it off, probably because the see it as a treat. As you say the classes are packed most days, all those people can’t be wrong.

Which Bikram studio do you own / teach at? :-)

siochain wrote: »

Are there any more risks when compared to walking your dog? No

Ok, now I'm beginning to think you are a troll.

Pembily

MOD NOTE:This is going around in circles and the OP asked if all bikram teachers are qualified, not the benefits etc of bikram.

Hippo

Purethick,I have to say that the instructors I've experienced regularly point out, especially to beginners, that they should only take on as much of the posture as they can manage. As I said before, I'm only speaking about Ringsend, I have no experience beyond that.

My daughter has practiced in other (non-Bikram) studios around the city, and the personal attention given to inexperienced practitioners appears to vary greatly. If as you say, you've attended many Bikram studios where instructors pay little attention beginners' form then that's obviously unacceptable, but I find it hard to believe that the problem is exclusively confined to Bikram studios.

siochain

Seriously who do you know that's not body aware? And quantify how many you know who pushed themselves too far and what were the consequences?

Really clutching at straws now taking the focus off the facts by bringing up ownership and troll. I don't have a vested interest I just don't like biased BS on the net which may but someone off something that in most cases is very beneficial to there health and well being.

In the current times where the lack of exercise and over consumption of processed foods is driving so many illness we should be encouraging people to get up and move.

purethick wrote: »

Yup, I've been doing Bikram on and off for over 10 years and have heard loads of positive stories too.

Why not a balanced post with all the positive stories you have?

siochain

Pembily wrote: »

MOD NOTE:This is going around in circles and the OP asked if all bikram teachers are qualified, not the benefits etc of bikram.

discussions evolve that's what makes them interesting. If someone posts BS it should be pointed out people so can make and independent judgement.

Pembily

siochain wrote: »

discussions evolve that's what makes them interesting. If someone posts BS it should be pointed out people so can make and independent judgement.

MOD NOTE: That's irrelevant if a mod says get back on track get back on track. Also mod notes shouldn't be questioned on thread. If you've an issue with it PM the mods.

purethick

Hippo wrote: »

Purethick,I have to say that the instructors I've experienced regularly point out, especially to beginners, that they should only take on as much of the posture as they can manage. As I said before, I'm only speaking about Ringsend, I have no experience beyond that.

What I'm referring to though isn't so much about bad instructors, I'm referring to the Bikram "script" that is used for each class. There's very little in the way of verbal cueing to keep beginners and those who have pre-existing conditions safe. The issue is compounded when classes are packed

purethick

siochain wrote: »

discussions evolve that's what makes them interesting.

+1

siochain wrote: »

If someone posts BS

Let's stay away from ad hominem territory please - rational discourse only

siochain

purethick wrote: »

+1

Let's stay away from ad hominem territory please - rational discourse only

Fully agree that posts shouldn't contain BS, let's continue in the other tread

BabysCoffee

To answer the OP, my understanding is that if it is a Bikram Studio proper than all teachers are fully certified. If it is a Hot Yoga Studio teaching Bikram Yoga or Hot Yoga the teachers may be uncertified.

yoginindublin

There's nothing better than asking either the owner or teacher about their training and certification.

christeb

purethick wrote: »

Maybe it was their first couple classes after certification and they were nervous?


Yes....actually it seems they've branched out to other locations now The Fall 2014 Teacher Training will be in Phuket, THAILAND


Well given that they regularly get 40+ people in a class and I've been in classes with 60+ and the average cost per class is say €16; therefore the studio is regularly taking in (40*16) €640 for a single class, I imagine they have to pay the instructors something decent (€80-€100 per class?).

<mild rant>
I've no idea why anyone would want to be a bikram instructor though, you might as well get a tape recorder and hit play for each class - you just end up being a parrot -> "ONLY Bikram's Beginning Yoga Class dialogue used".
In fact here's is the mandatory dialogue. You'd just go insane having to come out with that by rote each class.

Also how on earth can an instructor keep an eye on a class with that many students in it, I've regularly seen people in class with really bad form and not being corrected. If the ethos was about quality instruction then they would put a limit on class sizes...but it seems that it's profit before people.

As you may be able to tell I used to be a bikram belieber but no longer. I think it's only safe for people who are reasonably fit, injury free and are very clear on correct form and the consequences of bad form. If you tick all those boxes then I reckon it is relatively safe to do - I still do the occasional class myself.
I do have a major issue with their one size fits all approach; people are different...and have do regularly have various temporary or permanent ailments. Bikram classes takes none of this into account.

Also Bikram Choudhury's greed and vice like grip on the franchise is just plain ugly; e.g. trying for years to trademark yoga poses - wtf??
</mild rant>

I'm probably setting myself up here for an interesting backlash here :-)

I doubt that the average student pays €16, as most are on some sort of monthly plan. Assuming your calculations are correct, however, I wonder how much a yoga teacher gets paid?

I agree it may have been one of the teacher's first classes, but there were some students doing horrific poses. A new teacher would tend to be a little more hands on with corrections, I would've thought. Maybe not.

yoginindublin wrote: »

Hi! I have been wanting to try it out Bikram a few times. I am an ashtanga practitioner myself. Can you tell me which studio you went to?

Uhmmm, I forget I don't want to discuss or mention my particular studio, but rather have some general discourse.

christeb

BabysCoffee wrote: »

To answer the OP, my understanding is that if it is a Bikram Studio proper than all teachers are fully certified. If it is a Hot Yoga Studio teaching Bikram Yoga or Hot Yoga the teachers may be uncertified.

Well that's what I'd like to think, but there's obviously nothing to say that can't throw a few non-cert'ed teachers in for some of the quieter classes.

Muff Richardson

christeb wrote: »

Well that's what I'd like to think, but there's obviously nothing to say that can't throw a few non-cert'ed teachers in for some of the quieter classes.

As mentioned in one of my posts, there was a fella giving a class who was clearly standing in for someone and had not a clue what he was at. I've heard of the bikram training schedule which is something like twice a day for 6 weeks, can't remember exactly but when I heard it was extremely demanding. This guy was about 3 or 4 stone overweight I'd estimate, I seriously doubt he'd trained even once a fortnight for a five a side pub football team.

The studio is an absolute sh*thole which has dressing rooms with an odor that turns your stomach. Packed to the brim when I was there, looks like it is turning over a fair few euro.

mugwumpjism

Hi Muff,

Can you PM me the studio in question as I am going to take up bikram and want to avoid this one. Also I am riddled with injuries, bad knees, rheumatoid arthritis in me spine, dodgy shoulder etc. So I'll let you know how I get on...I like stretching in the sauna and find it really helps...but obviously only try and so this when it is empty as you don't want to be that weird bloke that stretches in the sauna in front of everyone! I have done other forms of yoga in the past and know the need for correct alignment but if it is only 26 poses I can practice in the mirror at home also to get aligned properly.