I hate being an atheist

kneemos · 13-01-2014 09:00AM

Atheists are so boring.I'd rather read Peig Sayers than listen to them and their "big man in the sky"argument.
It's not edgy or cool just level ten boring.

Pherekydes · 13-01-2014 09:01AM

yawhat! wrote: »

There is one thing I hate about Atheists, they have to tell everyone there an atheist.

Here an atheist, there an atheist, everywhere an atheist...

Pherekydes · 13-01-2014 09:03AM

Duck Soup wrote: »

Catholics are much more fun. Seriously.

According to the RCC I'm a catholic. According to me I'm an atheist.

The best of both worlds, eh?

Pherekydes · 13-01-2014 09:09AM

Duck Soup wrote: »

I'm a confirmed agnostic.

Some people seem to think that the terms atheist and agnostic are mutually exclusive.

13-01-2014 09:11AM

Pontificating athiests are a self-selecting sample.

What I find annoying is when other athiests make statements, implicitly or explicitly stating that people of faith are all stupid and deluded. I know far too many very clever people with faith in a higher power for that to be true. Its the equal and opposite of religious people stating that all athiests are arrogant know-it-alls. Evangelising either way is boring.

I get what the OP says. I don't believe in an afterlife, but I'd love to. It might be a fantasy but it's a really nice one, and I envy people who have that rock solid conviction in it. It's sometimes hard to accept just how fleeting and insignificant our time is, for most of us anyway.

Canis Lupus · 13-01-2014 09:17AM

zenno wrote: »

There is one thing I understand clearly, and it is... have respect for others beliefs. Just because others think they have the answers to life and the universe per se, doesn't give them the right to take a person down regarding their belief system.

In my ramblings, it might seem crazy to other folk, but the number one thing regarding this, is to just respect the person that they are, regardless of a belief system. Every-one has one.

I believe black people are inferior to white people and that jews are the cause of all the worlds financial problems.

zenno · 13-01-2014 09:27AM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I believe black people are inferior to white people and that jews are the cause of all the worlds financial problems.

Explain yourself in lay-mans terms ? Regarding that comment.

Context.

Akrasia · 13-01-2014 09:29AM

Epicurus said it 2400 years ago

“Death is nothing to us, since when we are, death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.”

I am not afraid of death for my self, My own death, once it is finalised, does not affect me, it affects my family and those who I leave behind, therefore I do worry about death, I worry about the sorrow it will cause to my wife and children. Hopefully that's something we won't have to deal with for many decades to come.

Regarding the afterlife. Sure, it would be nice to think that we can survive death and that it is not really the end. But the problem is of all the conceivable ways our consciousness could survive, the vast majority of them are extremely unpleasant.

If I was given a straight choice right now to choose from 2 options.

1. Death is final. My consciousness is no more and I am not aware of my own non existence

2. A 50% chance that one of the below will happen:

2 (a)Death is just a stage leading onto an eternal paradise where I will 'live forever' in absolute bliss

2 (b) Death is a stage leading to an eternal torture where I would be tortured for eternity with no hope of ever getting relief

If I was given that choice right now, I would have to take option 1. I would rather have my life end at it's natural conclusion on Earth, than have to live my final years in uncertainty and fear that I could be close to entering a prison of unimaginable cruelty from which there is no release

Given that we don't know for 100% certainty what happens after death, I can not imagine how believing that there is an afterlife is in any way a comfort, given that the afterlife could be a horrible horrible place (just as this life can be a truly horrible place if you're unlucky enough to be born into the wrong place at the wrong time)

Akrasia · 13-01-2014 09:31AM

zenno wrote: »

Explain yourself in lay-mans terms ? Regarding that comment.

Context.

Canis Lupus is clearly refuting your point that we should always respect the beliefs of others by stating a position that is clearly abhorent and should not be respected, especially if it is a genuinely and strongly held one

Akrasia · 13-01-2014 09:34AM

To make the analogy more relevant to this topic. There are people out there who have a strongly held belief that gay people will be burned in hell for all eternity.
And there are many of these people who make it their business to hound and torment gay people and attempt to 'cure them' of their homosexuality in a practise that has been extremely harmfull and has driven many young people to the point of suicide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy
Should these beliefs be respected?

zenno · 13-01-2014 09:36AM

Akrasia wrote: »

Epicurus said it 2400 years ago

I am not afraid of death for my self, My own death, once it is finalised, does not affect me, it affects my family and those who I leave behind, therefore I do worry about death, I worry about the sorrow it will cause to my wife and children. Hopefully that's something we won't have to deal with for many decades to come.

Regarding the afterlife. Sure, it would be nice to think that we can survive death and that it is not really the end. But the problem is of all the conceivable ways our consciousness could survive, the vast majority of them are extremely unpleasant.

If I was given a straight choice right now to choose from 2 options.

1. Death is final. My consciousness is no more and I am not aware of my own non existence

2. A 50% chance that one of the below will happen:

2 (a)Death is just a stage leading onto an eternal paradise where I will 'live forever' in absolute bliss

2 (b) Death is a stage leading to an eternal torture where I would be tortured for eternity with no hope of ever getting relief

If I was given that choice right now, I would have to take option 1. I would rather have my life end at it's natural conclusion on Earth, than have to live my final years in uncertainty and fear that I could be close to entering a prison of unimaginable cruelty from which there is no release

Given that we don't know for 100% certainty what happens after death, I can not imagine how believing that there is an afterlife is in any way a comfort, given that the afterlife could be a horrible horrible place (just as this life can be a truly horrible place if you're unlucky enough to be born into the wrong place at the wrong time)

I wish I could prove it to you. The containers electrical energy dissipates into the electrical energy surrounding every living thing, as well as the Earth, the living thing we all suck from, the earth.

Ghost Buster · 13-01-2014 09:37AM

Op. Did the infinity of nothing before your birth influence your fears?

nozzferrahhtoo · 13-01-2014 09:49AM

Evelyn Cusack wrote: »

I truly do, the thought of an infinity of nothing is terrifying.

And Yes I know that you aren't conscious of it so you won't feel the pain, but that is the very tragedy of it, the loss of consciousness.

I love life and the world, all my thoughts will be lost like tears in the rain, to steal a phrase.

Although I do not actually tend to use the word "Atheist" to describe myself.... as someone who would be described as such by others I have to say the above has never bothered me one iota.

Sure I love my life too and wish to elongate the experience as much as possible. But at the same time the idea that such a project is doomed to eventual failure has never bothered me.

In fact I find the idea of eternal life cheapens the value of this life we have here. Gold is precious for one clear reason: It is rare. If you found 20000 tons of it tomorrow its value would plummet.

Similarly I think the idea of an eternal afterlife cheapens the value of this life, and what we do with it, to nearly nothing.

Take the myth of Jesus Christ for example. He was said to have made a sacrifice for us by "giving his life" for our sins while the deity particular to that religion is said to have "given" us his only son.

Yet where does the myth claim Jesus is now? Sitting at the right hand of his father ruling in eternal dominion and bliss?

Where is the sacrifice there? It sounds like a trade up to me. What did this deity "give" us? At best it sounds like the briefest of loans. Who died here? No one?

The myth is an insult to any parent who actually has lost a child. An insult to anyone who actually has given their life in sacrifice for a person, place or ideal without any expectation, let alone certainty, of an eternal life. Let alone an eternal life of bliss and dominion. What do the lives of such people, let alone their sacrifice, even mean in the light of an eternal life?

So no, I am not worried or bothered by death. Not only do I see no reason to even suspect there might be an after life, I am also relieved to think there is none.

Christopher Hitchens in his dying months said that knowing you are doing to die is like being part of a really great party and being tapped on the shoulder and told you have to leave... knowing the party will go on without you.

But he then went on to say the idea of an after life is like being tapped on the shoulder in that party and told that A) you can NEVER leave and

while you are there.... your host _insists_ you have a good time.

That would not be a "comfort" to me. It would be a horror.

So while I would love to spout some helpful advice or quip or mantra to help you with what is bothering you here.... I am afraid I am so far from being in the same head space as you that I can not even comprehend it enough to give you any wisdom at all from the short supply I am endowed with as it is.

Akrasia · 13-01-2014 09:49AM

zenno wrote: »

I wish I could prove it to you. The containers electrical energy dissipates into the electrical energy surrounding every living thing, as well as the Earth, the living thing we all suck from, the earth.

Electrical energy is not conscious, and most of the 'energy we suck from' comes from light and heat generated by nuclear fusion in the Sun, not the earth.

The energy that powers our consciousness is no different from the energy that powers our computer. Energy is just a measure of how fast particles move and vibrate. An electron is not conscious. The fact that our computer can perform complex tasks is because the energy is used to turn transistors on and off. In our brain, this energy is used to send signals between neurons. Our consciousness emerges from the workings of the physical elements of our brain. The only part 'energy' has in all this is that energy is required to change any state in nature. It's thermodynamics, it's not any indication of some kind of ethereal consciousness.

There is no 'The force', Star wars was a science fiction/fantasy story

Canis Lupus · 13-01-2014 09:50AM

zenno wrote: »

Explain yourself in lay-mans terms ? Regarding that comment.

Context.

A belief is a belief... I don't have to 'respect' anyones beliefs and just because these particular beliefs revolve around the afterlife/god/higher power or your weird electrical energy belief (brought on if I remember by illness) doesn't make them immune to ridicule/criticism.

nozzferrahhtoo · 13-01-2014 10:08AM

yawhat! wrote: »

There is one thing I hate about Atheists, they have to tell everyone there an atheist.

I suggest you travel a little more in the US sometime. There are places there where people literally tell you their religion and denomination upon introduction. Almost like it is part of their name.

zenno wrote: »

Narrow minded people.

I'm what you call a complicated atheist. I believe your electrical energy/conciousness carries on.

Not religious, but open-minded.

I am not sure we are using the same definition of "open minded" as you are. Or of "Narrow Minded" either. Though it really depends on exactly what you mean with the above post, which is far from clear. "Carries on" is so vague as to be devoid of meaning.

For me "Open minded" is the willingness to accept as true things for which there is reason to think is true. Regardless of how much you want it to be one way or another.

Depending on what you actually mean by "carries on" here... there is a chance you may be defining "open minded" as "The willingness to believe just about anything, for no reason at all".

Evelyn Cusack wrote: »

If I sound arrogant, I hope I'm proven wrong

I am not sure "arrogant" is the word they should be using. but I think what they are getting at is that given how lucky you are to be alive at all... being upset that the existence is only temporary is at best a little selfish.

In a world full of death and loss you have something that is being denied many others. And that is just among the born. In the single ejaculate that your father used to produce you, there was millions of potential other lives that do not exist here today.

Life is precious and rare. Every life to our knowledge unique, transient, and never to be repeated. At a guess therefore: What is likely to raise the ire of some people on a thread like this is their frustration that you would be upset at that transience rather than embrace it while you have it. When someone cooks you a cake as a gift, do you enjoy the cake, or moan that when you eat it it will be gone?

zenno wrote: »

There is one thing I understand clearly, and it is... have respect for others beliefs. Just because others think they have the answers to life and the universe per se, doesn't give them the right to take a person down regarding their belief system.

I would disagree with this. Do not respect ideas or beliefs. Ever. Respect people, not beliefs. Attacking or dessimating a bad or unsubstantiated belief should not be conflated with an attack on the person who holds such a belief. do not conflate the two, especially when most of the people doing that conflating are doing so to defend their beliefs from criticism behind a screen of feigning offence or upset in order to cajole others into silence.

No one owns real estate in "Idea Space" and if someone espouses a belief or idea outside the privacy of their own minds then they have made it fair game for critique. And critique it we will.

13-01-2014 10:22AM

zenno wrote: »

There is one thing I understand clearly, and it is... have respect for others beliefs. Just because others think they have the answers to life and the universe per se, doesn't give them the right to take a person down regarding their belief system.

In my ramblings, it might seem crazy to other folk, but the number one thing regarding this, is to just respect the person that they are, regardless of a belief system. Every-one has one.

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I believe black people are inferior to white people and that jews are the cause of all the worlds financial problems.

zenno wrote: »

Explain yourself in lay-mans terms ? Regarding that comment.

Context.

I believe the poster is attacking the idea that we have to accept peoples beliefs no matter how stupid. To highlight this point he uses a belief that was in previous times quite prevalent ie that certain races are inferior to other races.

Someone might then say you cant say that to which the poster could retort hey man its my belief you gotta respect it.

A very ugly but simple way of proving what happens when we just accept peoples stupid beliefs!

pauldla · 13-01-2014 10:34AM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I suggest you travel a little more in the US sometime. There are places there where people literally tell you their religion and denomination upon introduction. Almost like it is part of their name.

My experience of this was a very nice chap from Alabama telling me his religion, his hometown, and then more about his religion. Then he asked me about my faith.

"Well," I said, "I was raised a Catholic, but now I suppose I'm atheist."

His reply was a look of total shock. "A ROMAN Catholic!?!?!?"

zenno · 13-01-2014 10:38AM

Akrasia wrote: »

Electrical energy is not conscious, and most of the 'energy we suck from' comes from light and heat generated by nuclear fusion in the Sun, not the earth.

The energy that powers our consciousness is no different from the energy that powers our computer. Energy is just a measure of how fast particles move and vibrate. An electron is not conscious. The fact that our computer can perform complex tasks is because the energy is used to turn transistors on and off. In our brain, this energy is used to send signals between neurons. Our consciousness emerges from the workings of the physical elements of our brain. The only part 'energy' has in all this is that energy is required to change any state in nature. It's thermodynamics, it's not any indication of some kind of ethereal consciousness.

There is no 'The force', Star wars was a science fiction/fantasy story

Are you serious ?.

The energy that powers our consciousness is no different from the energy that powers our computer.

Well, you have to forward the details, and documents to prove your case. Because that statement has no basis until proven.

There is no 'The force', Star wars was a science fiction/fantasy story

I don't understand this comment above. Watching too much star-wars ? I'm lost on that one... Clarify.

@ nozzferrahhtoo I would disagree with this. Do not respect ideas or beliefs. Ever. Respect people, not beliefs.

No. I will respect peoples beliefs. I will respect people in communication, and I will respect their beliefs. That's me though, but feel free to dictate your forwardness in brainwashing if you like.

iDave · 13-01-2014 10:42AM

Personally I think being atheist is great.

anncoates · 13-01-2014 10:45AM

I hate hearing about you being a atheist.

MagicMarker · 13-01-2014 10:49AM

Duck Soup wrote: »

The thing I hate about some atheists is oftentimes they are more pontificating and sanctimonious than religious people.

I'm a confirmed agnostic. Don't know, don't particularly care. But Jesus wept, spare me from the 'intellectual bravery' and searing intellect of an atheist in full shíte.

Catholics are much more fun. Seriously.

Agnostic atheist or agnostic theist? You either believe or you don't, there's no in between.

Rabelais · 13-01-2014 10:53AM

Good to see AH is still a meeting place for some of Ireland's finest theologians, philosophers and epistemologists.

nozzferrahhtoo · 13-01-2014 11:02AM

zenno wrote: »

Well, you have to forward the details, and documents to prove your case. Because that statement has no basis until proven.

The energy powering a computer is electrical. So is the energy in the brain. If you want to suggest there is therefore a difference the onus of evidence lies with you, not Akrasia.

zenno wrote: »

No. I will respect peoples beliefs. I will respect people in communication, and I will respect their beliefs. That's me though, but feel free to dictate your forwardness in brainwashing if you like.

Disagreeing with ideas is not brain washing. The exact opposite in fact. Ideas should not be respected. They should be evaluated and tested and where necessary rebutted.

Akrasia · 13-01-2014 11:06AM

zenno wrote: »

Are you serious ?.

Well, you have to forward the details, and documents to prove your case. Because that statement has no basis until proven.

I don't understand this comment above. Watching too much star-wars ? I'm lost on that one... Clarify.

Energy is the word used in physics to describe the ability to do work. Energy is measured in Joules (a Watt is one joule per second)

The law of conservation of energy applies to this physical manifestation of energy. Energy can not be created or destroyed but only converted from one form to another.

Energy is not conscious, Energy fundamentally is the jiggling of atoms. When you apply heat to a body, you are increasing the energy of that body, the heat causes the atoms to move, to 'jiggle' (as the great Feynman describes so elequently
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fplaylist%3Flist%3DPL2D30B1DEFFDA0310&ei=V7fTUrT-H-assAS1poGgDA&usg=AFQjCNE3lV-YqcRAmOo-KJ_0maNDq2nydQ&sig2=kYRQOkSkdCNNaR5NAqw4Xg&bvm=bv.59026428,d.cWc)
The Jiggling of these atoms causes some of them to break out of their chemical bonds and allows reactions and changes of states to occor, different levels of energy facilitate different kinds of reactions as every element has a different nuclear force and every compound has different properties, so increasing or decreasing the level of energy in any system (moving it somewhere else or transferring it into different forms of energy) allows all kinds of interactions at all the different levels of scale, from the sub atomic scale, to the scale of universes.

This is the physical understanding of energy at a very basic level. There is no room for consciousness anywhere in this esplanation. Energy by itself can not be conscious. Consciousness can only exist under very very specific and fragile circumstances, inside of a brain that has been specially adapted and has evolved physical components that allow messages to be stored and transmitted within a complex system in such a way that consciousness can emerge.

There is no conceivably plausible mechanism in known, or even theoretical physics, for there to be any kind of non corporeal intelligence.
It's a fantasy, it's just an imagined anthropomorphisation. Just as humans can draw a hat on a cartoon pig and imagine that he is friends with a duck, we can look at the complexity of nature and imagine that has some kind of consciousness like our own.
It doesn't, and pigs and ducks are nature's fiercest enemies [Removed Image - this was supposed to be an image of Daffy Duck fighting Porky pig, but I can't add images from this computer for some reason]

whatdoicare · 13-01-2014 11:19AM

The one and only thing I hate about being an atheist is the arguments with family. If I could force myself to believe, life would be hunky dorey!

I'd be getting free money for Christening my child. I could send her to my local primary instead of across town to the educate together.

I wouldnt get that awkward feeling when people say theyll pray for me/thank god for me/tell me to pray for them. I wouldnt feel like I'm stuck in a creepy conversation when my mam starts talking about Angels.

It would be totally normal when I'm gifted religious parafenalia and id be able to proudly display it instead of fecking it into the bin and making excuses when the person notices it's not there.

I generally wouldn't feel like I was living in a world where everyone is in the matrix and I'm the only one who's woken up.

Wibbs · 13-01-2014 11:25AM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Agnostic atheist or agnostic theist? You either believe or you don't, there's no in between.

Eh yea there is. One can believe in the possibility of an underlying universal "purpose" without believing it actually exists, based on current evidence and or personal worldview. Doing so would not make you an atheist or a theist, though you would have more in common with the former position.

Cool Mo D · 13-01-2014 11:34AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh yea there is. One can believe in the possibility of an underlying universal "purpose" without believing it actually exists, based on current evidence and or personal worldview. Doing so would not make you an atheist or a theist, though you would have more in common with the former position.

It would make you an atheist. If you don't believe that there is a god, then you are an atheist - you don't have to reject the possibility of there being a god to be an atheist (although some do).

grizzly · 13-01-2014 11:35AM

Akrasia wrote: »

To make the analogy more relevant to this topic. There are people out there who have a strongly held belief that gay people will be burned in hell for all eternity.
And there are many of these people who make it their business to hound and torment gay people and attempt to 'cure them' of their homosexuality in a practise that has been extremely harmfull and has driven many young people to the point of suicide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy
Should these beliefs be respected?

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 18:22 KJV

The bible is unambiguous on the matter. Should these beliefs be respected? no.

MagicMarker · 13-01-2014 11:35AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh yea there is. One can believe in the possibility of an underlying universal "purpose" without believing it actually exists, based on current evidence and or personal worldview. Doing so would not make you an atheist or a theist, though you would have more in common with the former position.

Well that's what I mean, you can accept all the possibilities you want, but in the end you either have a belief in something or you don't. There's no fence sitting when it comes to belief, it's either there or it isn't. Duck Soup said he didn't know, and that's fine, but he either doesn't know but believes there's something, or he doesn't know and has no belief there's something.

I don't know if there's something, but I don't believe there's something.

I hate being an atheist

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