Consultants Fees

rawn · 09-01-2014 05:19PM #1

I just read THIS article and the sum of €50m spent on consultants alone by Irish Water boggles my mind. How does one become a consultant, and exactly what do they do to earn such huge wages? Besides "consult" that it. And yes I realize that €50m wasn't spent on one consultant alone but that's still a massive figure. To me "consult" just sounds like a company asking an experts advice, and then paying them millions for their answer? Is that really a job worthy of that amount of money?

uch · 09-01-2014 05:27PM

It's expensive to become an Expert you know.

wexie · 09-01-2014 05:28PM

You know what they say :

Consulting: if you're not part of the solution there's good money to be made in prolonging the problem

rawn · 09-01-2014 05:28PM

uch wrote: »

It's expensive to become an Expert you know.

It's expensive to become a lot of things that don't demand such huge fees.

ScumLord · 09-01-2014 05:31PM

rawn wrote: »

and exactly what do they do to earn such huge wages? Besides "consult" that it.

The majority of them do sweet FA. They're just a bridge between what you don't know who is able to achieve what you want. They introduce you to the skilled labour and then get in the way by repeating everything in the conversation to make themselves look important.

keeponhurling · 09-01-2014 05:33PM

Consultants are often used when people are needed, but only for certain times.
So it's cheaper to only pay for them when you need them, rather than be paying them every month regardless of workload.

It would be more expensive to perhaps have the relevant skills and people in-house.

If you don't need them any more, then say good-bye. Not so easy if they are employed directly by you.

(I've no idea about the €50million for Irish Water or what it's for, but maybe it is necessary stuff as the article says they are planning on hiring some of it in-house next year)

Michael D Not Higgins · 09-01-2014 05:35PM

I'm an engineering consultant in the UK. My company charge me at nearly £600 a day while the most senior people go for double that. Consultants are expensive but they allow you to temporarily buy in experience, knowledge and peace of mind (covering their ass).

On the other hand, doing the maths I see €50M would be equal to 139 of our most senior staff working all year. Crazy money.

wexie · 09-01-2014 05:41PM

What Michael D said, it makes sense in a lot of ways (I myself get sold for sometimes crazy money but 50 million is just astronomical.

lets say a decent consultant costs 2500 a day

that would be 20.000 days (roughly 55 years!!! :eek:) worth of consulting time.

at those rates I'm not altogether convinced it's being done because of a cost saving strategy.

rawn · 09-01-2014 05:42PM

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

I'm an engineering consultant in the UK. My company charge me at nearly £600 a day while the most senior people go for double that. Consultants are expensive but they allow you to temporarily buy in experience, knowledge and peace of mind (covering their ass).

On the other hand, doing the maths I see €50M would be equal to 139 of our most senior staff working all year. Crazy money.

Wow. If a company needs THAT much consulting, then something is seriously wrong with the company.

wretcheddomain · 09-01-2014 05:44PM

I believe €50 million is very much a watered down figure, the true figure would have them truly drowning in cash.

biko · 09-01-2014 05:44PM

Consultant = fancy contractor.

09-01-2014 05:49PM

I suppose part of it is for the lack of job security, sorting out taxes and possibly insurance? yourself, lack of pensions, etc.
But yeah, it's to get someone in on a temporary basis who definitely knows what they're doing

Michael D Not Higgins · 09-01-2014 05:49PM

Just think, the first thing they have to do is justify those fees by recouping that in water charges.

wexie · 09-01-2014 05:52PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I suppose part of it is for the lack of job security, sorting out taxes and possibly insurance? yourself, lack of pensions, etc.
But yeah, it's to get someone in on a temporary basis who definitely knows what they're doing

You must not have dealt with some of the same consultants I've dealt with.

I once turned down a job for a customer as we didn't have a sufficient level of knowledge on the subject in house. Customer went to an outside consultancy who took the job, and then contacted me through the back channels to ask could I help them out with the design!!!

Sikpupi · 09-01-2014 05:54PM

How in gawds name can you spend €50m....surely there must be someone signing the cheques thats asking questions?

Is it to 1 x Company????

I'm just disgusted that this was allowed to happen - I will be writing to my local TD looking for fffing answers on this. €55,000,000.00 - it looks worse written this way.. FFS.

09-01-2014 05:55PM

wexie wrote: »

You must not have dealt with some of the same consultants I've dealt with.

I once turned down a job for a customer as we didn't have a sufficient level of knowledge on the subject in house. Customer went to an outside consultancy who took the job, and then contacted me through the back channels to ask could I help them out with the design!!!

No, I haven't!
I was speaking in theory

Michael D Not Higgins · 09-01-2014 05:55PM

wexie wrote: »

You must not have dealt with some of the same consultants I've dealt with.

I once turned down a job for a customer as we didn't have a sufficient level of knowledge on the subject in house. Customer went to an outside consultancy who took the job, and then contacted me through the back channels to ask could I help them out with the design!!!

Obviously each consultancy is different and is only as good as the people they employ.

rawn · 09-01-2014 06:02PM

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/44699435.jpg

twinytwo · 09-01-2014 06:02PM

rawn wrote: »

I just read THIS article and the sum of €50m spent on consultants alone by Irish Water boggles my mind. How does one become a consultant, and exactly what do they do to earn such huge wages? Besides "consult" that it. And yes I realize that €50m wasn't spent on one consultant alone but that's still a massive figure. To me "consult" just sounds like a company asking an experts advice, and then paying them millions for their answer? Is that really a job worthy of that amount of money?

See what people forget, is that most consultants work for a company... and while the company may charge 500-1000+ euro a day for their services, the actual consultant might only get paid 25-50 euro an hour.

The major consultancy companies use their "vast" experience to completely milk a situation.

That said, some of the IT projects etc that they are brought in on can be hugely complex, the likes of an erp for a large multi national....

keeponhurling · 09-01-2014 06:41PM

twinytwo wrote: »

See what people forget, is that most consultants work for a company... and while the company may charge 500-1000+ euro a day for their services, the actual consultant might only get paid 25-50 euro an hour.

The major consultancy companies use their "vast" experience to completely milk a situation.

That said, some of the IT projects etc that they are brought in on can be hugely complex, the likes of an erp for a large multi national....

Yes, but large comapnies often invest in Intellectual capital, which their consultants have access to, as well as give training etc.

Also, if there isn't much work from the client, the consultancy still has to pay the consultant at the end of the month.

steddyeddy · 09-01-2014 07:03PM

wexie wrote: »

You must not have dealt with some of the same consultants I've dealt with.

I once turned down a job for a customer as we didn't have a sufficient level of knowledge on the subject in house. Customer went to an outside consultancy who took the job, and then contacted me through the back channels to ask could I help them out with the design!!!

I'm quoting you Wexie because I thought you might appreciate this. A consultant last year told me biochemistry is not really clinically relevant in medicine.
In order to become a consultant physician politics is often required. You cannot assume that someone is knowledgeable just because they are in a certain position.

Cian92 · 09-01-2014 07:13PM

I'd be under the impression that the consultants they are referring to are law firms and accounting firms. Sure some top accountants and solicitors charge out at €500 an hour. Could that explain it.

Wurzelbert · 09-01-2014 07:24PM

omfg, this keeps getting better and better...will just go get my torch and pitchfork and cu all outside their house...

steddyeddy · 09-01-2014 07:29PM

Cian92 wrote: »

I'd be under the impression that the consultants they are referring to are law firms and accounting firms. Sure some top accountants and solicitors charge out at €500 an hour. Could that explain it.

True but there is a culture of overestimating consultants across the board in Ireland.

Cian92 · 09-01-2014 07:43PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

True but there is a culture of overestimating consultants across the board in Ireland.

I'm not sure I follow, could you please elaborate. Thanks.

rawn · 09-01-2014 07:43PM

What qualifications does one need in their area to become a consultant? Is there minimum requirements or a certain amount of years experience?

keith16 · 09-01-2014 07:52PM

I think people are looking at this the wrong way around.

Overspend by public bodies on things like IT and consultants is rampant in Ireland.

Consultants don't hold a gun to their heads. Consultant fees are well known up front.
Consultants do what they are asked.

Overspending happens because some senior public servant decides he doesn't like the font, the shade of blue and the functional and technical requirements are often ignored in favour of this lunacy.

This means that things go on for much longer than they need to. Additionally, the life cycle of systems is much shorter and the senior civil servant is accountable to nobody, and can make a political issue out of any project failure / overspend.

So think about that before opening fire on consultants. It's almost like "but the banks gave us the money" type view of the world.

Sky King · 09-01-2014 07:57PM

I'd like to learn more about the tendering process (assuming one exists). Maybe there's some 'consulting' I could do as well.

humbert · 09-01-2014 08:02PM

I think in the government's case hiring consultants is just a way of spending money to dodge responsibility.

wexie · 09-01-2014 08:06PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm quoting you Wexie because I thought you might appreciate this. A consultant last year told me biochemistry is not really clinically relevant in medicine.
In order to become a consultant physician politics is often required. You cannot assume that someone is knowledgeable just because they are in a certain position.

ah to be fair....biochemistry hardly has much of an impact on the functioning of the human body no?....

:rolleyes:

wexie · 09-01-2014 08:11PM

keith16 wrote: »

I think people are looking at this the wrong way around.

Overspend by public bodies on things like IT and consultants is rampant in Ireland.

Consultants don't hold a gun to their heads. Consultant fees are well known up front.
Consultants do what they are asked.

Overspending happens because some senior public servant decides he doesn't like the font, the shade of blue and the functional and technical requirements are often ignored in favour of this lunacy.

This means that things go on for much longer than they need to. Additionally, the life cycle of systems is much shorter and the senior civil servant is accountable to nobody, and can make a political issue out of any project failure / overspend.

So think about that before opening fire on consultants. It's almost like "but the banks gave us the money" type view of the world.

which is an entirely fair point. At the end of the day (or close of play :rolleyes:) a consultancy firm isn't actually in the business of providing solutions, they're in the business of making money.

So if some eejit of a civil servant demands that a design or conclusion be redone because he doesn't like the font or the conclusions then you can't really blame the consultant for thinking : SCORE....two days/weeks/months worth of time for rehashing something I already have (for example).

Consultants Fees

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