There is no moral difference between a Stealth bomber and a suicide bomber

Tony EH · 06-01-2014 10:52AM

Duck Soup wrote: »

All of the people who ran Unit 731 were given immunity from prosecution by the US, so the Americans could have the cooperation of those military and medical people in interpreting the results of the experiments carried out at Unit 731 in biological and chemical warfare.

Shirō Ishii, the lieutenant general of Unit 731, travelled after the war to the US to advise on bioweapons. He died in Tokyo aged 67, in 1959, never having served a day for his crimes and worked all his post-war life as a doctor in Japan.

Masaji Kitano was the second in command of Unit 731, a medical doctor, microbiologist and the lieutenant general of the Imperial Japanese Army. He too completely escaped prosecution, thanks to the Americans, and after the war he worked for Green Cross, a Japanese pharmaceutical company. He died in Tokyo in 1986 aged 91.

No one from Unit 731 was ever prosecuted by the Allies, because America wanted access and explanation of the data that came from Unit 731.

It's a strangely selective thing, morality.

That's because Unit 731 had absolutely nothing to do with the allies prosecution of the war. Nor did it have anything to do with their actions post-war. It was simply an extremely minor footnote. In fact, only a tiny, tiny amount of people had even heard about Unit 731 until about 10 or 15 years ago. But, it has somehow become bastardised into some sort of justification for allied action against the Japanese.

Just witness the people mentioning it as a reason for using the atomic bomb.

Utterly bizarre...

old hippy · 06-01-2014 11:09AM

Nino Brown wrote: »

I bet Jap isn't even a word in Japan. I could probably call a Japanese person a Jap, and not only would they not be offended, but they wouldn't have a clue what I just said. But say it on a discussion forum in Ireland, and watch people get their backs up about it, some people have nothing better to do but look for things to get offended by.

I first learned it was an offensive word back in the 70s, when at school with a Japanese lad.

My wife is Japanese and many of my friends are. None of them like the term and consider it racist.

old hippy · 06-01-2014 11:11AM

Terry1985 wrote: »

If you're offended by the term Jap, you going to have a PC field day in the motors forum... search for 'Jap cars' and 'Jap imports'.

Yes, Terry, I've been there before.

There's nothing PC about calling out racism.

Potatoeman · 06-01-2014 11:14AM

old hippy wrote: »

I first learned it was an offensive word back in the 70s, when at school with a Japanese lad.

My wife is Japanese and many of my friends are. None of them like the term and consider it racist.

Its an odd one. Its really just an abreviation, like poles. Is it a slur because it was used in propaganda during the war?

old hippy · 06-01-2014 11:25AM

Potatoeman wrote: »

Its an odd one. Its really just an abreviation, like poles. Is it a slur because it was used in propaganda during the war?

Some more info:

http://www.japan-talk.com/jt/new/is-the-word-Jap-derogatory

The word Jap is generally considered derogatory in the UK. Britain is home to the largest Japanese community in Europe who consider the term offensive.

The Japanese Embassy in London went after a London newspaper for using the term in 2011. The following statement came from the embassy at that time:
Most Japanese people find the word Jap offensive, irrespective of the circumstances in which it is used.
~ Embassy of Japan in the UK

Tony EH · 06-01-2014 11:30AM

old hippy wrote: »

I first learned it was an offensive word back in the 70s, when at school with a Japanese lad.

My wife is Japanese and many of my friends are. None of them like the term and consider it racist.

We've had this discussion before, but I'll reiterate my observations here. When I was in Japan, nobody I encountered considered the word racist. In fact there were some people on Kyushu that hadn't even heard of the word. And no, I didn't meet everybody on Honshu or Kyushu.

In fact, it seems to be really only in America (especially the west coast) that the term "Jap" is considered taboo. Naturally, the war has something to do with this feeling.

At the end of the day, it probably comes down to the person you are talking to at the time.

Outside of American wartime propaganda, I don't personally consider the phrase racist and view it as a shortening of the word Japanese, must in the way Brit is short for British.

Terry1985 · 06-01-2014 12:04PM

old hippy wrote: »

Yes, Terry, I've been there before.

There's nothing PC about calling out racism.

There's a difference between racism and inadvertently using a commonly used abbreviation without realising it.

It's people like you who cry Wolf constantly who actually hurt real victims of racism.
If the immigrant council of Ireland says it reported 300 incidents of racism, I'm more likely to count your ideas of racism in the figures and dismiss much of it.

somuj · 06-01-2014 12:08PM

Terry1985 wrote: »

There's a difference between racism and inadvertently using a commonly used abbreviation without realising it.

It's people like you who cry Wolf constantly who actually hurt real victims of racism.
If the immigrant council of Ireland says it reported 300 incidents of racism, I'm more likely to count your ideas of racism in the figures and dismiss much of it.

Well said. I wholeheartedly agree.

old hippy · 06-01-2014 12:08PM

Terry1985 wrote: »

There's a difference between racism and inadvertently using a commonly used abbreviation without realising it.

It's people like you who cry Wolf constantly who actually hurt real victims of racism.
If the immigrant council of Ireland says it reported 300 incidents of racism, I'm more likely to count your ideas of racism in the figures and dismiss much of it.

And it's people like you, Terry, who revel in the back slapping "aren't I a card" culture that carries on using such epithets and slurs when you've been repeatedly told that it's offensive.

You keep justifying your use of the word, by all means.

old hippy · 06-01-2014 12:09PM

Tony EH wrote: »

We've had this discussion before, but I'll reiterate my observations here. When I was in Japan, nobody I encountered considered the word racist. In fact there were some people on Kyushu that hadn't even heard of the word. And no, I didn't meet everybody on Honshu or Kyushu.

In fact, it seems to be really only in America (especially the west coast) that the term "Jap" is considered taboo. Naturally, the war has something to do with this feeling.

At the end of the day, it probably comes down to the person you are talking to at the time.

Outside of American wartime propaganda, I don't personally consider the phrase racist and view it as a shortening of the word Japanese, must in the way Brit is short for British.

Well, Tony, you stick to your defense of the word & I'll keep hilighting it, everytime boards descends into using it.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 06-01-2014 12:10PM

old hippy wrote: »

Well, Tony, you stick to your defense of the word & I'll keep hilighting it, everytime boards descends into using it.

you're the hero boards.ie needs, not the hero it deserves

old hippy · 06-01-2014 12:11PM

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

you're the hero boards.ie needs, not the hero it deserves

I'm glad you find racism amusing

somuj · 06-01-2014 12:14PM

old hippy wrote: »

I'm glad you find racism amusing

I'm inclined to think that he finds you amusing rather than racisim.

Terry1985 · 06-01-2014 12:31PM

old hippy wrote: »

And it's people like you, Terry, who revel in the back slapping "aren't I a card" culture that carries on using such epithets and slurs when you've been repeatedly told that it's offensive.

You keep justifying your use of the word, by all means.

When was I 'repeatedly told' it was offensive?
First I heard about it was via an infraction, and the source seems obvious now.
The conversation about the term happened later in the thread, which I was not a part of, and I haven't repeated it since.

I think it's you who is wildly branding people as racist, and maybe you need a little break from AH?

I've no personal issues with the Japanese people and saw a documentary on how they handled the recent natural crisis with honor.

Tony EH · 06-01-2014 12:39PM

old hippy wrote: »

Well, Tony, you stick to your defense of the word & I'll keep hilighting it, everytime boards descends into using it.

I don't believe I've "defended" anything. I am merely pointing out that the Japanese people I met, in Japan, didn't find the word racist.

old hippy · 06-01-2014 01:08PM

Tony EH wrote: »

I don't believe I've "defended" anything. I am merely pointing out that the Japanese people I met, in Japan, didn't find the word racist.

To be fair; Japanese people don't tend to refer to each other by that term. Those who travel or converse in English would be more aware of it.

old hippy · 06-01-2014 01:14PM

somuj wrote: »

I'm inclined to think that he finds you amusing rather than racisim.

Oh, I'm sure. There's plenty out there who get a giggle when someone is offended by racial slurs.

Terry1985 wrote: »

When was I 'repeatedly told' it was offensive?
First I heard about it was via an infraction, and the source seems obvious now.
The conversation about the term happened later in the thread, which I was not a part of, and I haven't repeated it since.

I think it's you who is wildly branding people as racist, and maybe you need a little break from AH?

I've no personal issues with the Japanese people and saw a documentary on how they handled the recent natural crisis with honor.

"You" plural. The offensive term crops up on a distressingly regular basis. Ignorance can be hard to stamp out.

If your loved ones were constantly denigrated by a term meant in jest or otherwise you'd feel a bit annoyed by it.

Do I need a little break? I'd prefer people to stop using the word, if possible. But maybe you can report me to the mod for having the gall to be offended by racial slurs.

LOSTfan57 · 06-01-2014 01:23PM

If I use the word "Jap" it is because I am lazy **** and Jap is shorter than Japan or Japanese.....plain and simple....I also use "Brit" over British....its not bloody racism at all? This indignation is hilarious. Making a hoohaa over zilch bahaha. Its a bloody abbreviation

old hippy · 06-01-2014 01:28PM

LOSTfan57 wrote: »

If I use the word "Jap" it is because I am lazy **** and Jap is shorter than Japan or Japanese.....plain and simple....I also use "Brit" over British....its not bloody racism at all? This indignation is hilarious. Making a hoohaa over zilch bahaha. Its a bloody abbreviation

But it's not an abbreviation; it's a racist slur.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Jap

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap#Reaction_in_Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment#Derogatory_terms

Terry1985 · 06-01-2014 01:32PM

old hippy wrote: »

Do I need a little break? I'd prefer people to stop using the word, if possible. But maybe you can report me to the mod for having the gall to be offended by racial slurs.

Or maybe you could have applied a bit more intelligence to the problem rather than reporting everyone and calling them racists, devaluing the term racist.

Even though I don't like how you attack AH posters trying to get them banned I'm going to give you a very simple solution to at least one of your problems...

Ask the mods, who you must be on first name terms with now, to add 'Jap' to boards swear filters.

Tony EH · 06-01-2014 01:33PM

old hippy wrote: »

To be fair; Japanese people don't tend to refer to each other by that term. Those who travel or converse in English would be more aware of it.

A considerable chunk of the people I met in Japan had traveled outside of the country and a lot of them had extremely good English.

Even the person I went to visit originally, who had lived in Ireland, England and France said that she didn't consider the word a racist word, in and of itself. But understood, as I do, that it could be used in a racial context, provided that the person using it employed it in such a manner.

The simple fact is, is that many people of Japanese extraction don't consider "Jap" to be a racist term and its main area of charge, as it were, remains in the States.

I personally would refrain from using it to a persons face in polite conversation, but I have used it as a shorthand when writing, in such a way as I would use Yanks or Reds. In other words, as an informal, but not an invective.

I do think "Jap" is really at the very low end of insults, to be honest and it really depends on who you are talking to. I have heard much, much worse leveled at Japanese people. Some westerners opinions/views of the Japanese are, quite frankly, appalling.

LOSTfan57 · 06-01-2014 01:35PM

old hippy wrote: »

But it's not an abbreviation; it's a racist slur.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Jap

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap#Reaction_in_Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment#Derogatory_terms

So you get up in arms about this but have no problem calling me rascist when I simply told you I'm a lazy **** who uses 3 letters instead of 5/8....not rascist just lazy. Get off the bloody high horse like

old hippy · 06-01-2014 01:38PM

Terry1985 wrote: »

Or maybe you could have applied a bit more intelligence to the problem rather than reporting everyone and calling them racists, devaluing the term racist.

Even though I don't like how you attack AH posters trying to get them banned I'm going to give you a very simple solution to at least one of your problems...

Ask the mods, who you must be on first name terms with now, to add 'Jap' to boards swear filters.

Here's a simpler idea. How about people think for a moment before using the offensive term?

The term is racist, nobody is devaluing anything. Except those who use the term - as they are devaluing Japanese people.

I'm trying to get people banned for using offensive terms? Arf. They don't need my help on that front. Ignorant, lazy people usually end up hoisted by their own petard.

old hippy · 06-01-2014 01:39PM

LOSTfan57 wrote: »

So you get up in arms about this but have no problem calling me rascist when I simply told you I'm a lazy **** who uses 3 letters instead of 5/8....not rascist just lazy. Get off the bloody high horse like

I refer you to my previous reply.

old hippy · 06-01-2014 01:40PM

Tony EH wrote: »

I do think "Jap" is really at the very low end of insults, to be honest and it really depends on who you are talking to. I have heard much, much worse leveled at Japanese people. Some westerners opinions/views of the Japanese are, quite frankly, appalling.

Well, Tony, we'll just have to disagree on how much of an insult it is.

06-01-2014 01:40PM

Suicide bomber is braver ? ?

LOSTfan57 · 06-01-2014 01:40PM

old hippy wrote: »

I refer you to my previous reply.

And I refer you to the replies that state that even the japanese themselves dont find the bloody term offensive haha

old hippy · 06-01-2014 01:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Suicide bomber is braver ? ?

There was certainly an element of bravery in the kamikazee pilots. Although it was deeply misguided, no doubt about it. They wrongly believed it was the only way to defend their country against the US at the time.

old hippy · 06-01-2014 01:43PM

LOSTfan57 wrote: »

And I refer you to the replies that state that even the japanese themselves dont find the bloody term offensive haha

Do you have Japanese family and friends, Lostfan57? Has your wife ever been racially abused because of her nationality? Harrassed in pubs, on public transport, called names?

Terry1985 · 06-01-2014 01:46PM

old hippy wrote: »

Here's a simpler idea. How about people think for a moment before using the offensive term?

So yes or no answer, are you going to request a change to the swear filter or are you happier attacking AH posters as emotional punchbags for your personal experiences of racism outside of boards?

There is no moral difference between a Stealth bomber and a suicide bomber

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