Is Bill Gates an absolute legend?

goose2005 · 24-12-2013 12:42PM

professore wrote: »

Gates beats the hell out of Jobs. Anyone who gives away their fortune to try to improve the planet deserves respect.

As for their business days, they are/were both extremely successful businessmen - you can't be that without stepping on a few toes.

That's why I respected Michael O'Leary do much - he was honest about it until recently.

tbh I'd respect O'Leary far more. His low-cost airline strategies were genuinely new, and he never sought monopolies

camel jockey · 24-12-2013 12:44PM

goose2005 wrote: »

tbh I'd respect O'Leary far more. His low-cost airline strategies were genuinely new, and he never sought monopolies

Read a bit more - the idea came from a US airline (can't remember the name), O'Leary will gladly give credit. Of course he built on the idea but the concept wasn't original...

nxbyveromdwjpg · 24-12-2013 12:48PM

I like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw8x7ASpRIY

murpho999 · 24-12-2013 12:48PM

camel jockey wrote: »

It's valid criticism if you aren't an Apple fanboy.

It's not.
Like saying that Airbus copied Boeing by giving their planes wings.
It's just Apple haters saying stuff like that.

Using terms like "Apple fanboy" etc.

All seem to forget that Android had to be scrapped and rebuilt after iPhone first came out.

All these companies borrow and copy ideas off each other and the rest comes down to marketing.

In the 90's Bill Gates and Microsoft was hated by people.

It always seems that succesfull people and companies get this.

Femme_Fatale · 24-12-2013 01:57PM

stannis wrote: »

Would you have started this thread if he was all of those things except a liberal? I mostly admire him for bringing computing into the reach of many more human beings than possible before the home PC, don't see the need to get political.

I agree but they did balance out the "liberal" with "capitalist" in fairness.

Phoebas · 24-12-2013 02:24PM

camel jockey wrote: »

Read a bit more - the idea came from a US airline (can't remember the name), O'Leary will gladly give credit. Of course he built on the idea but the concept wasn't original...

I think it was SouthWest.

Not only is Bill Gates giving most of his fortune to charity, he is also persuading other billionaires, like Warren Buffet, to do the same.

Capt'n Midnight · 24-12-2013 02:27PM

When you consider that the only superpowers that Iron Man and Batman have is money and technology, Bill has turned out to be something of a disappointment.

yoloc · 24-12-2013 02:28PM

bill gates invests in monsanto and the big pharma compines which IMO he is scum of the highest order!!!!! He contributes to a world that is making people sick and causes cancer with poisoning our food, poisioning is with the meds and not to mention destroying the worlds pulse with all this radation we need to use his products. He deserves a place in hell right beside the devil but hey, sure he has you all fooled into believing he deserves a seat beside god.

Karl Stein · 24-12-2013 02:37PM

Bill Gates made a fortune from cobbling together other people's ideas (I guess his ability to foresee their potential was his primary success) and then building an aggressively protected, state underwritten, monopoly with them.

Bill Gates Snr was an attorney who specialised in working with high technology clients on patents and copyrights for their products and his law firm was involved in lobbying in Washington.

Gates can attribute much of his fortune and much of the success of MS to knowing how to 'play the game'.

Capt'n Midnight · 24-12-2013 02:51PM

Rabelais wrote: »

He created a company that has had an enormous influence on how we communicate and interact with the world about us. He was involved in the development of products that fundamentally changed how companies and individuals work and live. Computing for the masses.

He became the wealthiest man of the planet by doing so. Selling software that people wanted to buy. And then he decided he was going to give it all away. Some people seem to have real problems with what he did. Riles up the anti-establishment crowd.

Microsoft got rich by very sharp practice including regularly breaking laws because they knew they could easily pay the fines.

Bill used to dumpster dive for code.

IBM had to buy DOS for their computers because of anti-competition laws that microsoft has never had to worry about. After they sold DOS microsoft they bought it. Dos was written by seattle university as QDOS Quick and Dirty Operating System. Almost all of the "innovation" by microsoft is buying in stuff. Windows NT was developed by people headhunted from Digital. WNT is one letter after VMS in the same way that HAL from 2001 is IBM.

He didn't get rich by selling software people wanted to buy.
He got rich by killing off the competition by forcing manufacturers to install their software and allowing software to be copied freely. You want to buy DrDos or CPM on a computer - microsoft still got paid for a copy of MSDos, you want to copy any product before 1995 - just use 55555555 as the serial number or anything divisible by 7.

"Dos ain't done till Lotus won't run" add in the undocumented API's in windows and there is a huge history of breaking third party software , again to kill the competition.

You want to bypass Novells server licenses, just install one copy of windows and it'll share to all the other computers on the network. Novell got hammered on that, and that's why the BSA was setup to ensure that all corporates now buy Microsoft CAL's.

They did a deal with Mosaic - which a big browser at the time - 50:50 profit share. Then they gave it away free to undermine Netscape. And since there were no profits that killed Mosaic too. Today it's not so bad but there was a long time when it seamed that every one that did a deal with micorosoft got shafted, big time.

/RANT

You have to admire microsoft. They are experts in extracting revenue from a captive audience. The performance of the financial side is amazing.

Dunnes Stores isn't a supermarket. Customers pay cash and suppliers don't get paid for months and Dunnes make a lot of their money not on sales margins but on what they can do with the cash in that time.

Microsoft is similar. They could give windows away for free tomorrow and still make money on licenses of other products that they have vendor lock-in on the corporate market.

Personally I'd estimate up to 10% of microsoft's income is people buying extra licenses to cover themselves because of the Byzantine licensing rules.

Hobbes · 24-12-2013 03:19PM

Carlos Roca wrote: »

Bill Gates made a fortune from cobbling together other people's ideas (I guess his ability to foresee their potential was his primary success) and then building an aggressively protected, state underwritten, monopoly with them.

This is the crux of it. I recommend watching "Triumph of the Nerds" (PBS) and reading the Department of Justice findings of fact against Microsoft (not claims, actual facts proven in the case). As well as the "Halloween documents".

Or the whole Stacker debacle where MS stole code from Stacker, lost when sued and instead of paying the fine bought out the company instead.

His first book also underlined how clueless they were about the internet being the next big thing, so much so that Windows 95 didn't even ship with a browser. Actually the whole origins of IE caused the death of the company that wrote it. MS was supposed to pay for every license sold, so they gave it away free.

I wouldn't class him as visionary, more a highly skilled person in his field in the right place at the right time.

That said, current day Bill Gates is a very different person.

Henlars67 · 24-12-2013 03:42PM

So what, a multi billionaire gave a load of money to charity.

If people like him paid their fair share of tax then there would be no need for charities to exist.

Arawn · 24-12-2013 03:45PM

Henlars67 wrote: »

So what, a multi billionaire gave a load of money to charity.

If people like him paid their fair share of tax then there would be no need for charities to exist.

well he'd pay his taxes in america, so yeah africa wouldn't benefit at all

jimeryan22 · 24-12-2013 04:18PM

yoloc wrote: »

bill gates invests in monsanto and the big pharma compines which IMO he is scum of the highest order!!!!! He contributes to a world that is making people sick and causes cancer with poisoning our food, poisioning is with the meds and not to mention destroying the worlds pulse with all this radation we need to use his products. He deserves a place in hell right beside the devil but hey, sure he has you all fooled into believing he deserves a seat beside god.

My god..!! Somebody who doesn't actually read biographical story books written about rich people..!! Haha. Yeah all this tech was developed for you and me..! Not

jimeryan22 · 24-12-2013 04:19PM

jimeryan22 wrote: »

My god..!! Somebody who doesn't actually read biographical story books written about rich people..!! Haha. Yeah all this tech was developed for you and me..! Not

bill gates does not pay tax I'm afraid
Look it up

seano12 · 24-12-2013 04:23PM

http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/08/bill-gates-polio-vaccine-program-caused-47500-cases-of-paralysis-death/

"Bill Gates’ Polio Vaccine Program Caused 47,500 Cases of Paralysis Death"

jimeryan22 · 24-12-2013 04:25PM

seano12 wrote: »

http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/08/bill-gates-polio-vaccine-program-caused-47500-cases-of-paralysis-death/

"Bill Gates’ Polio Vaccine Program Caused 47,500 Cases of Paralysis Death"

Yes... Thank you
Legend..? He's a bloody scourge

NTMK · 24-12-2013 04:33PM

seano12 wrote: »

http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/08/bill-gates-polio-vaccine-program-caused-47500-cases-of-paralysis-death/

"Bill Gates’ Polio Vaccine Program Caused 47,500 Cases of Paralysis Death"

any sources that arent CT websites as that site is full of Anti vaccine and Anti GMO BS

jimeryan22 · 24-12-2013 04:40PM

NTMK wrote: »

any sources that arent CT websites as that site is full of Anti vaccine and Anti GMO BS

Haha. Knew that one was coming.. You mean stuff not written by known liars..
Namely mainstream media owned all by another globalist scumbag Rupert Murdoch..? Propaganda media you mean..?

Femme_Fatale · 24-12-2013 04:55PM

Carlos Roca wrote: »

Bill Gates made a fortune from cobbling together other people's ideas (I guess his ability to foresee their potential was his primary success) and then building an aggressively protected, state underwritten, monopoly with them.

Bill Gates Snr was an attorney who specialised in working with high technology clients on patents and copyrights for their products and his law firm was involved in lobbying in Washington.

Gate's can attribute much of his fortune and much of the success of MS to knowing how to 'play the game'.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Microsoft got rich by very sharp practice including regularly breaking laws because they knew they could easily pay the fines.

Bill used to dumpster dive for code.

IBM had to buy DOS for their computers because of anti-competition laws that microsoft has never had to worry about. After they sold DOS microsoft they bought it. Dos was written by seattle university as QDOS Quick and Dirty Operating System. Almost all of the "innovation" by microsoft is buying in stuff. Windows NT was developed by people headhunted from Digital. WNT is one letter after VMS in the same way that HAL from 2001 is IBM.

He didn't get rich by selling software people wanted to buy.
He got rich by killing off the competition by forcing manufacturers to install their software and allowing software to be copied freely. You want to buy DrDos or CPM on a computer - microsoft still got paid for a copy of MSDos, you want to copy any product before 1995 - just use 55555555 as the serial number or anything divisible by 7.

"Dos ain't done till Lotus won't run" add in the undocumented API's in windows and there is a huge history of breaking third party software , again to kill the competition.

You want to bypass Novells server licenses, just install one copy of windows and it'll share to all the other computers on the network. Novell got hammered on that, and that's why the BSA was setup to ensure that all corporates now buy Microsoft CAL's.

They did a deal with Mosaic - which a big browser at the time - 50:50 profit share. Then they gave it away free to undermine Netscape. And since there were no profits that killed Mosaic too. Today it's not so bad but there was a long time when it seamed that every one that did a deal with micorosoft got shafted, big time.

/RANT

You have to admire microsoft. They are experts in extracting revenue from a captive audience. The performance of the financial side is amazing.

Dunnes Stores isn't a supermarket. Customers pay cash and suppliers don't get paid for months and Dunnes make a lot of their money not on sales margins but on what they can do with the cash in that time.

Microsoft is similar. They could give windows away for free tomorrow and still make money on licenses of other products that they have vendor lock-in on the corporate market.

Personally I'd estimate up to 10% of microsoft's income is people buying extra licenses to cover themselves because of the Byzantine licensing rules.

^^^
Constructive critiques of Gates.

jimeryan22 wrote: »

Pretty sure ole bill's a eugenicist not very nice people

yoloc wrote: »

bill gates invests in monsanto and the big pharma compines which IMO he is scum of the highest order!!!!! He contributes to a world that is making people sick and causes cancer with poisoning our food, poisioning is with the meds and not to mention destroying the worlds pulse with all this radation we need to use his products. He deserves a place in hell right beside the devil but hey, sure he has you all fooled into believing he deserves a seat beside god.

^^^

Unsupported rants.

Btw, give the "you all" a rest. A number of people here have questioned Gates.

Capt'n Midnight · 24-12-2013 04:57PM

Arawn wrote: »

well he'd pay his taxes in america, so yeah africa wouldn't benefit at all

Actually aid to Africa could be funded with a 16% tax on the money flowing out of Africa , and not even all of it just tax the interest payments and tax dodges.

KyussBishop · 24-12-2013 05:07PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

He's giving pretty much giving all of it away.

No, not really:
"Bill Gates Retakes World’s Richest Title From Carlos Slim"
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-16/bill-gates-retakes-world-s-richest-title-from-carlos-slim.html

Retrovertigo · 24-12-2013 05:30PM

kingtiger wrote: »

iPod concept stolen from Kane Kramer who invented a similar device in 1979, but to date Apple haven't given him a cent

Who in turn stole it from John Lennon.

Capt'n Midnight · 24-12-2013 05:31PM

seano12 wrote: »

http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/08/bill-gates-polio-vaccine-program-caused-47500-cases-of-paralysis-death/

"Bill Gates’ Polio Vaccine Program Caused 47,500 Cases of Paralysis Death"

and then has some "quotes" from The Lancet

None of which refer to www.thelancet.com oddly enough

if you do a search on site:thelancet.com you get different stuff

The financial aspect of vaccines can't be ignored , we don't have to provide smallpox vaccinations or worry about it re-emerging in the rich world anymore.
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2810%2960565-X/fulltext

Disease eradication is qualitatively different from other investments; as a long-term strategy, it generates future health benefits and a revenue stream that can be applied to short-term goals—it is an annuity that keeps on paying. The global benefit—cost ratio of the eradication of smallpox has exceeded 400:1, with the USA alone recouping its total investment of US$32 million every 26 days.

Or apply Occam's razor

That foundation buys most of it's stuff from US companies. US companies could be sued if the vaccine wasn't safe. Given the billion dollar fines imposed recently to big pharma it just wouldn't be worth it.

In addition to Johnson & Johnson having to pay $2.2B last month
http://projects.propublica.org/graphics/bigpharma
GlaxoSmithKline agreed to pay a fine of $3 billion
Merck agreed to pay a fine of $950 million
Pfizer was fined $2.3 billion
Sanofi-Aventis agreed to pay $109 million
Eli Lilly was fined $1.42 billion
AstraZeneca was fined $520 million
Abbott was fined $1.5 billion
Boehringer Ingelheim Pharmaceuticals Inc agreed to pay $95 million
Amgen agreed to pay a $762 million fine

Dman001 · 24-12-2013 06:18PM

kjl wrote: »

I hate Apple and I hate Steve Jobs, Apple trade ergonomics and comfort for style, for god sake they made a glass phone, probably the most dropped possession people own

Have to laugh at this perspective people have about glass-built phones. I don't have an iPhone, but a Nexus 4 which is also glass based. Before that I had a fully plastic built phone (except the screen of course). What happened to that phone? It has chipped, cracked, scratched and been scuffed due to everyday use and the plastic casing. Yes glass sure will shatter if you drop it, but it is less prone to scratches and scuffs. While polycarbonate phones have become more sturdy, they are just as likely to cracking if dropped as glass phones. The only stronger alternative is aluminium, which Apple have applied to the iPhone.

kjl wrote: »

He was a con man, just a very brilliant con man. He conned the world into buying overpriced crap. He is worse than a religious leader, with this almighty messiah complex that the Apple brand represents. I can't stand listening to gob****es who know nothing about IT tell me how proper designers use a mac.

He built a brand, the same way as Nike, Coca Cola, McDonalds, etc have. The only difference is, he knew how to fully exploit it by doing the media events.

kjl wrote: »

They rip off their developers too, 30% fee to host my app and $99 to publish it, oh thank you might Apple and they are thieves too, every innovation in the iOS software is stolen from the jailbreak community.

Cant comment on this really, as I'm not a developer. So not aware is the 30% a rip-off to access one of the biggest technological ecosystems in the world. But I do know that iTunes barely breaks-even for Apple, they have to cover the costs somehow.

kjl wrote: »

Windows is reliable, stable and easy to use. Ok it's taken a while to get to Windows 7, but the first 10 versions of osx were absolute pants. It's still a stupidly annoying operating system to use.

Apple build their software that fully exploits the capabilities of given hardware - We've seen it with their Mac range and iOS range. The price to pay for that is a somewhat closed system, but a seamless user experience that works flawlessly. Fragmentation has hit Windows, just as it is hitting Android now, and the experience isn't quite the same. That's not to say Windows or Android offer a bad experience, but you do need certain hardware requirements to achieve certain tasks.

kjl wrote: »

Steve jobs was also petty, he had grip with adobe so bang, no flash on iPhone and made it his personal goal to get it wiped from all web content.

Flash is one the biggest bloatware I've come across and performs badly on Windows and Mac, and drains resources. HTML 5 was, and is, the way forward and offers a better experience.

Despite what this post my sound like, I'm not an Apple fanboy but a mere technology enthusiast. Microsoft, Google and Apple have proved there is space in the market for each type of OS so slating one company for doing something one way is nonsense. I own and use iOS, Android and Windows devices on a daily basis, each having their own flaws and drawbacks. Just as people easily deem Apple devices as the best thing since slice bread, there are others who just as easily slate them. Arguing which is the better system is a pointless argument really.

OP I'd love to know what book you are reading?

clairefontaine · 24-12-2013 06:30PM

Apple definitely has better products, but far more expensive.

Jobs way more innovative than Gates without having gone to the most expensive private schools in Washington State.

Gates charity is arguably another form of political lobbying.

Capt'n Midnight · 24-12-2013 07:20PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

Jobs way more innovative than Gates

But neither were really innovative , neither were technically innovative.

You could argue that microsoft make PC's cheap, but the herd were following IBM at that stage, and once Compaq, Amstrad & co. had reverse engineered it the floodgates were opened. IBM tried to reign it in with the PS/2 architecture but everyone else followed Compaq and the rest is history. PC's are cheap because of all the clones. Until 386's you could easily spend three grand on a PC, then intel launched the "intel inside" campaign and everyone realised that it didn't matter too much which brand you bought and entry level prices and margains fell through the floor.

All of the above was on a hardware level and would have happened anyway.

Of note here is that while PC's have fallen from three grand to three hundred the cost of the OS hasn't changed much, so in real terms the OS is costing ten times what it used to. And since all you get is a sticker with a serial number the additional cost of production is near zero.

Like I said you have to admire the way they operate more than the product they produce.

kjl · 24-12-2013 10:26PM

seano12 wrote: »

http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/08/bill-gates-polio-vaccine-program-caused-47500-cases-of-paralysis-death/

"Bill Gates’ Polio Vaccine Program Caused 47,500 Cases of Paralysis Death"

Oh I forgot how accurate the reporting of NBC is, I think it's ranked second best after fox news.

Temptamperu · 24-12-2013 10:30PM

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

Jobs was no 1 for me. Bill is very smart, but his company's products were not the best. They won with their business mod.

Jobs was a real visionary.

Yeah but he smelled like ass :pac:

OldBlueEyes Nidge · 24-12-2013 10:32PM

Rabelais wrote: »

I've been reading a book about Bill Gates. I've come to the conclusion that he is one of the most important human beings who has ever lived. A liberal, a capitalist, an innovator and a humanitarian.

He created a company that has had an enormous influence on how we communicate and interact with the world about us. He was involved in the development of products that fundamentally changed how companies and individuals work and live. Computing for the masses.

He became the wealthiest man of the planet by doing so. Selling software that people wanted to buy. And then he decided he was going to give it all away. Some people seem to have real problems with what he did. Riles up the anti-establishment crowd.

I find him truly inspirational. Does anyone agree?

What book ?

Is Bill Gates an absolute legend?

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