Ireland Independence Like Other Countries

DeadHand · 23-12-2013 12:07PM

Just curious OP, you claim not to have your freedom.

Just how does this lack of freedom manifest itself in your practical, everyday life?

Put simply, what can someone in the Republic or a member of the Unionist community do that you can't?

Hande hoche! · 23-12-2013 12:11PM

keeponhurling wrote: »

Might as well also mention barstoolers

True, it's understandably a cynical/jaded group on a Monday morning.

Days 298 · 23-12-2013 12:19PM

The last thing I want is a united Ireland. Flags and parades are national issues up their.

I much prefer the republic as it is. Free from cultural divides, regular bomb threats and riots on the drop of a flag free.

Thanks but no thanks. The south is much nicer and I like knowing that my fellow country men don't have a hatred for me because of my background.

Just an old mans republican wet dream. The south says no unification! Just a lot of trouble for little reward. Let the Brits pay to police and run it.

megafan · 23-12-2013 12:21PM

[QUOTE=Sounds;88127955]December 23rd 2013

I've been in other countries, the UK included, great place,
And i always felt a sense of freedom, yet when i come home, I feel i'm part
of something that's not really mine, something is missing, my independence I dunno.

Have we ever been independent? As soon as we broke away from GB what happened?? We sold out to Rome & as soon as we start to break away from the clergy we allow corrupt politicians & the EC with its incomplete banking system to beggar us again!:mad:

BadCompany · 23-12-2013 12:23PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I was at line 5 before I stopped reading it like a poem.

Haha, I was about to ask if I was the only one looking for a rhyming scheme!

An Coilean · 23-12-2013 12:36PM

DeadHand wrote: »

Just curious OP, you claim not to have your freedom.

Just how does this lack of freedom manifest itself in your practical, everyday life?

Put simply, what can someone in the Republic or a member of the Unionist community do that you can't?

Become head of state in theory?

johnnyskeleton · 23-12-2013 12:42PM

I find it interesting that you relate to the partition issue on a personal / emotional level rather than the political, having a feeling that you are less free here than in say the USA.

Whatever about the States duty to educate you, provide health and emergency services and temporary welfare payments/accomodation, the state does not have a duty to make you feel better emotionally, nor could it ever really do that.

ruthloss · 23-12-2013 12:53PM

We had a Referendum about this question.
The majority voted for a change to our Constitution. (19th Change)

Northern Ireland will not become part of a United Ireland until and when the Majority of it's citizens vote for it.(Part of the Good Friday Agreement I believe)

3.1. It is the firm will of the Irish nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island. Until then, the laws enacted by the Parliament established by this Constitution shall have the like area and extent of application as the laws enacted by the Parliament that existed immediately before the coming into operation of this Constitution.

Richard · 23-12-2013 05:55PM

Captain Farrell wrote: »

I just need Nodin and Fratton Fred for a full house.

I think we need a KeithAFC re-reg.

keeponhurling · 23-12-2013 06:00PM

An Coilean wrote: »

Become head of state in theory?

McAleese became President.

Plus theoretically somebody from the North like Gerry Adams can be elected in Louth so hypothetically could be Taoiseach.

You couldn't vote though

Nodin · 23-12-2013 06:08PM

megafan wrote: »

Have we ever been independent? As soon as we broke away from GB what happened?? We sold out to Rome & as soon as we start to break away from the clergy we allow corrupt politicians & the EC with its incomplete banking system to beggar us again!:mad:

The church was embedded long before independence, unfortunately.

dd972 · 23-12-2013 06:13PM

Reunite the Island and make it part of Denmark or Norway, people who know how to run a fecking country ! :pac:

Nodin · 23-12-2013 06:17PM

dd972 wrote: »

Reunite the Island and make it part of Denmark or Norway, people who know how to run a fecking country ! :pac:

Or Finland. We could go there in the Winter for real snow.

harryr711 · 23-12-2013 06:22PM

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I'm more convinced than ever that there is plants put on boards to start these threads as a wind up or to watch a long silly argument that they can observe!

Jesus every 2 days one of these threads is opened and its the same discussion over and over.

Plants or darker forces at play!

Yeah, especially when you see the same ill-founded arguments for partition are trodden out (only to be disproved when facts and reality are brought into the thread).

TJ Lazer · 23-12-2013 06:26PM

Frank Black wrote: »

Guess what, you're not the spokesperson for 'Irish people'.

Many people in the Republic and in NI have no wish for the Republic to assume ownership of the North. Even from the basis of an economic or security viewpoint, the very idea would be horrific.

Anyhow, these NI threads are becoming tedious.

I personally don't care what the majority of the people want. The whole consent thing only became an issue towards the end of the 19th century and the British changed the goal posts at the last minute when they saw the damage Irish self determination might do to the 'Empire'.

Prior to any consent being sought in Ireland with regards to the governing of our own affairs, the country was governed with an iron fist by a small elite.

I agree with the OP. Ireland is no more free than Afghanistan or Iraq are. They may have national governments of their own but the governments are hardly the expressed will of the people.

Iwasfrozen · 23-12-2013 07:07PM

TJ Lazer wrote: »

I personally don't care what the majority of the people want. The whole consent thing only became an issue towards the end of the 19th century and the British changed the goal posts at the last minute when they saw the damage Irish self determination might do to the 'Empire'.

Prior to any consent being sought in Ireland with regards to the governing of our own affairs, the country was governed with an iron fist by a small elite.

I agree with the OP. Ireland is no more free than Afghanistan or Iraq are. They may have national governments of their own but the governments are hardly the expressed will of the people.

Well it's a good thing most people do then isn't it?

Amirani · 23-12-2013 07:52PM

TJ Lazer wrote:

I agree with the OP. Ireland is no more free than Afghanistan or Iraq are. They may have national governments of their own but the governments are hardly the expressed will of the people.

Truly bizarre.

Richard · 23-12-2013 08:56PM

harryr711 wrote: »

Yeah, especially when you see the same ill-founded arguments for partition are trodden out (only to be disproved when facts and reality are brought into the thread).

There's no point arguing the merits or otherwise of partitioning Ireland. Concentrate on the arguments for uniting Ireland now (if you want).

TJ Lazer · 23-12-2013 09:05PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well it's a good thing most people do then isn't it?

No it's not. I don't think it's fair that 1 million Unionists desire to remain in the Union should trump 4 million Nationalists desire to be in a United Ireland just because the British say so.

Look at it this way; how much weight do you think the GFA will carry if Scotland exits the Union?

Tiddlypeeps · 23-12-2013 09:10PM

TJ Lazer wrote: »

No it's not. I don't think it's fair that 1 million Unionists desire to remain in the Union should trump 4 million Nationalists desire to be in a United Ireland just because the British say so.

Look at it this way; how much weight do you think the GFA will carry if Scotland exits the Union?

There aren't 5 million people in Northern Irleand

Why would Scotland leaving the UK effect the good friday agreement?

Foxhound38 · 23-12-2013 09:17PM

Sounds wrote: »

December 23rd 2013

This is a hard topic for me to bring up, any time of the day.
So i'll try keep it simple and not get too into politics and rage.
If I ever get in a conversation about this, I end up feeling left down.

I've been in other countries, the UK included, great place,
And i always felt a sense of freedom, yet when i come home, I feel i'm part
of something that's not really mine, something is missing, my independence I dunno.

With bitterness aside, Irish people just want Ireland to be one nation,
The republic and the north united as one, independent of British rule.
That doesn't seem like a lot to ask, and i don't feel we should have to.
It's just how it is and we don't really have any say in how it should be.
I don't like the feeling of another country deciding they rule in my country.

We have a good country compared to some, opportunities are there when
you look in the right places, people from other less fortunate countries can
find refuge in our country and make a fresh start, all good in my opinion.
If it helps the economy it's all good.

6 counties in the North of Ireland, under English rule since the early 1920s
There are many people in the north who would prefer it to stay that way.
And i have no disrespect towards them, even if we were one nation,
English people, africans, americans and anyone else could still live in
Ireland and nothing should change, no war no hatred.

I'd love to hear the queen of england's views on this but i never will.
I doubt she has ever discussed or felt deep in her heart about our situation.
But when ever she visited our country we always made her feel at home.

We're not powerful enough to fight for what we believe in and anyway,
Violence is hardly the way forward, although it works for some countries.

I read the news about Scotland and Wales wanting to be independant states,
Having their own referendum voting to be independent of the UK.
That's great for them, what if my country wants independence?
That feeling; this is my country and nobody can take that away, well they have.
So that the people of Ireland can have what they have always wanted, one nation!

Why can't we do the same?
Things will just continue as they were, Irish people would have their freedom.

What else can I say... have a good day
I'm having second thoughts about posting this.

I'm Irish and I'm more than happy to leave the Brits looking after the sectarian cesspit that is NI. They broke it, they bought it - sad day for them, mind the fleg protestors.

If a situation ain't broke, why fix it?

Filibuster · 23-12-2013 09:30PM

COYW wrote: »

All we need is a public sector thread and we'll have a full house.

No you also need a traveller bashing thread for a full house

Femme_Fatale · 23-12-2013 09:48PM

COYW wrote: »

The Shiner Bot mustn't take a break for Christmas!

I don't think a united Ireland is workable (my heart wants it but not my head) however why is someone who would like a united Ireland automatically a "Shiner (sic) bot" on that basis alone?

COYVB · 23-12-2013 09:59PM

Surely independence for northern Ireland would mean neither UK nor Irish rule?

Mar Mar Marmalade · 23-12-2013 10:01PM

N. Ireland has grown into it's own country. As much as it's Irish, it's completely different at this point culturally. Too much violence if you were to remove the British rule, much more than it is now.

Leave it be.

TJ Lazer · 23-12-2013 10:08PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I don't think a united Ireland is workable (my heart wants it but not my head) however why is someone who would like a united Ireland automatically a "Shiner (sic) bot" on that basis alone?

It's custom to ridicule Republicans in the south because it's not considered 'modern' to identify with Irish heritage or Irish patriotism.

Modern in the south consists of adopting alien cultures and speaking a foreign language.

Iwasfrozen · 23-12-2013 10:16PM

TJ Lazer wrote: »

No it's not. I don't think it's fair that 1 million Unionists desire to remain in the Union should trump 4 million Nationalists desire to be in a United Ireland just because the British say so.

Look at it this way; how much weight do you think the GFA will carry if Scotland exits the Union?

There's so much ignorance in this post I don't know where to start... Let's get a few things straight here.

There are not 4 million nationalists in Northern Ireland.
The people of Northern Ireland have a right to self determination.
Only undemocratic loonies reject the GFA, the region has moved on and your opinions are frankly irrelevant.
Scotland will not vote to leave the United Kingdom. Conversely the strong pro-union vote that is expected can only strengthen the Union.
Even if the absurd did happen and Scotland did decide to break away the Good Friday Agreement is not conditional on Scotland remaining a member of the United Kingdom.

kumate_champ07 · 23-12-2013 10:19PM

some people need to look up the word 'independence', If we got 6 more counties it still wouldnt exist

timthumbni · 23-12-2013 10:49PM

Mr.David wrote: »

Really? I don't!

They can keep the 6 counties tbh, completely different country culturally, socially and economically.

Well said.

Femme_Fatale · 23-12-2013 10:54PM

Mr.David wrote: »

completely different country culturally, socially

Many nationalists up there would disagree; and I wouldn't say the two broad communities, while different, are "completely" different.

The dismissal of northern nationalists by people down here is saddening.

Ireland Independence Like Other Countries

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