Ireland Independence Like Other Countries

Sounds

December 23rd 2013

This is a hard topic for me to bring up, any time of the day.
So i'll try keep it simple and not get too into politics and rage.
If I ever get in a conversation about this, I end up feeling left down.

I've been in other countries, the UK included, great place,
And i always felt a sense of freedom, yet when i come home, I feel i'm part
of something that's not really mine, something is missing, my independence I dunno.

With bitterness aside, Irish people just want Ireland to be one nation,
The republic and the north united as one, independent of British rule.
That doesn't seem like a lot to ask, and i don't feel we should have to.
It's just how it is and we don't really have any say in how it should be.
I don't like the feeling of another country deciding they rule in my country.

We have a good country compared to some, opportunities are there when
you look in the right places, people from other less fortunate countries can
find refuge in our country and make a fresh start, all good in my opinion.
If it helps the economy it's all good.

6 counties in the North of Ireland, under English rule since the early 1920s
There are many people in the north who would prefer it to stay that way.
And i have no disrespect towards them, even if we were one nation,
English people, africans, americans and anyone else could still live in
Ireland and nothing should change, no war no hatred.

I'd love to hear the queen of england's views on this but i never will.
I doubt she has ever discussed or felt deep in her heart about our situation.
But when ever she visited our country we always made her feel at home.

We're not powerful enough to fight for what we believe in and anyway,
Violence is hardly the way forward, although it works for some countries.

I read the news about Scotland and Wales wanting to be independant states,
Having their own referendum voting to be independent of the UK.
That's great for them, what if my country wants independence?
That feeling; this is my country and nobody can take that away, well they have.
So that the people of Ireland can have what they have always wanted, one nation!

Why can't we do the same?
Things will just continue as they were, Irish people would have their freedom.

What else can I say... have a good day
I'm having second thoughts about posting this.

Captain Farrell

TL DR: Some people want the north to stay british, but screw them i want a warm and fuzzy 32 county Ireland.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Captain Farrell wrote: »

TL DR: Some people want the north to stay british, but screw them i want a warm and fuzzy 32 county Ireland.

Worse than that, thinks the "English" ruled the six counties since the 1920's and even worse thinks the Queen has a say in UK politics.

.jacksparrow.

I'm more convinced than ever that there is plants put on boards to start these threads as a wind up or to watch a long silly argument that they can observe!

Jesus every 2 days one of these threads is opened and its the same discussion over and over.

Plants or darker forces at play!

lkionm

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I'm more convinced than ever that there is plants put on boards to start these threads as a wind up or to watch a long silly argument that they can observe!

Jesus every 2 days one of these threads is opened and its the same discussion over and over.

Plants or darker forces at play!

It must be the mods. Kinda bored at home and just want some entertainment. I would do it.

keeponhurling

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

Worse than that, thinks the "English" ruled the six counties since the 1920's and even worse thinks the Queen has a say in UK politics.

Actually, she does have the final say.

Sounds

It's nothing to do with the mods or anyone trying to start an argument about something that can't be resolved.
And I hope this subject will never die, always get air, people need to know about it, we have freedom of speech if anything.
It's how i have felt most of my adult life and i'm sure other people feel the same if they think about the hand we've been dealt.
The Irish are known for sitting back and taking it with a pinch of salt, let politics take care of it, let them ride us back and forth.
Instead of looking at how it could be resolved we take every opportunity to comment on how it can't be resolved.
Instead of looking for things to correct in my comments, try looking at it from my side and what i'm actually trying to say.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

keeponhurling wrote: »

Actually, she does have the final say.

Actually she doesn't, as she has no political power at all it is all held by Parliament.

Sunnyisland

Merry Christmas OP

martinedwards

I'd like a united Ireland too.

back like it was.

London rule and all the paddies in the bogs where they belong.






Nah, not really.

I DO like my British Passport, 3% less VAT, an education system that allows you to send you kid to the local school regardless of whether a pedophile has splashed on their head, and no need to learn the Irish language.

I also LOVE the fact that there is ONE International rugby team, and that U2 are still the best band in the world.

keeponhurling

I thought that all bills had to be given Royal Assent before going into law, also they have powers to declare war, instruct the army, appoint or refuse to appoint Prime Minister, dilute parliament etc.
There's a long list somewhere.

Wouldn't call it no power at all.

kneemos

A Northern thread.A religious thread.Somebody start a dole thread.

Sounds

There's no reason why that should be taken away from you,
Keep you british passport, have an Irish one too if you want, give your kids whatever education you can give them.

Putting my country on a guilt trip for wanting independence, yea well it wouldn't be our fault if we got that.

camel jockey

Sounds wrote: »

December 23rd 2013
With bitterness aside, Irish people just want Ireland to be one nation

Speak for yourself there, Cyril. We don't all want the aforementioned.

Mr.David

Sounds wrote: »

With bitterness aside, Irish people just want Ireland to be one nation,
The republic and the north united as one, independent of British rule.

Really? I don't!

They can keep the 6 counties tbh, completely different country culturally, socially and economically.

camel jockey

kneemos wrote: »

A Northern thread.A religious thread.Somebody start a dole thread.

There's already one about the 'welfare queen', you silly sausage.

Amirani

Sounds wrote: »

Putting my country on a guilt trip for wanting independence, yea well it wouldn't be our fault if we got that.

The majority of people in Northern Island don't want independence from the UK. A guilt trip is the least that is deserved if you deny them their right to self determination. Why exactly should your personal desire trump democracy?

wicklowwonder

A 32 county Ireland would be great but realistically Dublin can't afford the North. What percentage of people are employed directly or indirectly by the Civil Service? How much does London pay annually to keep this going? Dublin couldn't afford that.

Also what does the North bring to the table? Very little industry, no oil like Scotland. I think we should sort our own problems out in the 26 counties before worrying about 6 more.

Frank Black

Sounds wrote: »

December 23rd 2013

This is a hard topic for me to bring up, any time of the day.
So i'll try keep it simple and not get too into politics and rage.
If I ever get in a conversation about this, I end up feeling left down.

I've been in other countries, the UK included, great place,
And i always felt a sense of freedom, yet when i come home, I feel i'm part
of something that's not really mine, something is missing, my independence I dunno.

With bitterness aside, Irish people just want Ireland to be one nation,
The republic and the north united as one, independent of British rule.
That doesn't seem like a lot to ask, and i don't feel we should have to.
It's just how it is and we don't really have any say in how it should be.
I don't like the feeling of another country deciding they rule in my country.

We have a good country compared to some, opportunities are there when
you look in the right places, people from other less fortunate countries can
find refuge in our country and make a fresh start, all good in my opinion.
If it helps the economy it's all good.

6 counties in the North of Ireland, under English rule since the early 1920s
There are many people in the north who would prefer it to stay that way.
And i have no disrespect towards them, even if we were one nation,
English people, africans, americans and anyone else could still live in
Ireland and nothing should change, no war no hatred.

I'd love to hear the queen of england's views on this but i never will.
I doubt she has ever discussed or felt deep in her heart about our situation.
But when ever she visited our country we always made her feel at home.

We're not powerful enough to fight for what we believe in and anyway,
Violence is hardly the way forward, although it works for some countries.

I read the news about Scotland and Wales wanting to be independant states,
Having their own referendum voting to be independent of the UK.
That's great for them, what if my country wants independence?
That feeling; this is my country and nobody can take that away, well they have.
So that the people of Ireland can have what they have always wanted, one nation!

Why can't we do the same?
Things will just continue as they were, Irish people would have their freedom.

What else can I say... have a good day
I'm having second thoughts about posting this.

Guess what, you're not the spokesperson for 'Irish people'.

Many people in the Republic and in NI have no wish for the Republic to assume ownership of the North. Even from the basis of an economic or security viewpoint, the very idea would be horrific.

Anyhow, these NI threads are becoming tedious.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

keeponhurling wrote: »

I thought that all bills had to be given Royal Assent before going into law, also they have powers to declare war, instruct the army, appoint or refuse to appoint Prime Minister, dilute parliament etc.
There's a long list somewhere.

Wouldn't call it no power at all.

It is no power, all of those powers are held by the Government under the Royal Prerogative.
http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/government/constitutional_law/citizens_guide_to_government/500456.html

Tiddlypeeps

The only time I would support a united Ireland is if the 6 counties held a referendum and decided that they no longer want to be part of the UK and that they want to be ruled by the Irish government.

It's insanely pompous of you to think that you can speak on behalf of all Irish people and to assume that they hold the same opinion to you.

It's also pretty mental to assume that the opinions of anybody outside of the 6 counties should have any say in the matter. It'd be like saying that if all the Irish bandied together we could decide that we want to rule the whole UK just because we think we should, regardless of how they feel on the issue.

Robert McGrath

Sounds wrote: »

It's nothing to do with the mods or anyone trying to start an argument about something that can't be resolved.
And I hope this subject will never die, always get air, people need to know about it, we have freedom of speech if anything.
It's how i have felt most of my adult life and i'm sure other people feel the same if they think about the hand we've been dealt.
The Irish are known for sitting back and taking it with a pinch of salt, let politics take care of it, let them ride us back and forth.
Instead of looking at how it could be resolved we take every opportunity to comment on how it can't be resolved.
Instead of looking for things to correct in my comments, try looking at it from my side and what i'm actually trying to say.

I assume if you've felt this way most of your adult life and you're encouraging others to think about it, you've heard of a little thing called the Good Friday Agreement? You know, that thing that the entire island democratically approved and which permits self-determination for the North in the future if it is the democratic will of the people?

anncoates

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Plants or darker forces at play!

The Brits are messing with our minds.

COYW

keeponhurling wrote: »

Actually, she does have the final say.

No she doesn't. She has as about as much of a say as the president here.

kneemos wrote: »

A Northern thread.A religious thread.Somebody start a dole thread.

All we need is a public sector thread and we'll have a full house.

Sounds wrote: »

With bitterness aside, Irish people just want Ireland to be one nation,
The republic and the north united as one, independent of British rule.

I stopped reading at this point. It is pretty clear from every independent media poll taken on the subject that the people of Northern Ireland, the people who really matter in all of this, do not want a United Ireland.

The Shiner Bot mustn't take a break for Christmas!

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

It'd be like saying that if all the Irish bandied together we could decide that we want to rule the whole UK just because we think we should, regardless of how they feel on the issue.

They are starting to realize that their UI wet dream is never going to come through from the votes available in NI alone and they are trying to find ways to force it through. The people of NI are not interested in a UI and they are trying to force a vote on it for the whole island in the hope of winning the vote. Next they will be looking to include the people on the rest of the British Isles to try and achieve their UI. It really is pathetic.

Hande hoche!

Second page in, might as well mention West Brits.

5starpool

If there was a vote soon for a united Ireland I would vote against it. Listening to people I know from Belfast talk about their childhood seems like it was a million miles away, not just right beside us. The North comes with way too much baggage and if Ireland was 32 counties again it would be far more trouble than it's worth, even ignoring the fact that we can't afford to govern ourselves, never mind with the north thrown in.

My grandfather fought on the anti treaty side and he would probably be disgusted with this post, but while I like the ideal of a united Ireland, some of the people and politics that come with the deal would make it a big no from me at this point.

COYW

5starpool wrote: »

My grandfather fought on the anti treaty side and he would probably be disgusted with this post, but while I like the ideal of a united Ireland, some of the people and politics that come with the deal would make it a big no from me at this point.

In relation to your grandfather, that was then and this is now. A UI would have absolutely no positive influence on day-to-day life in our country or on NI, given how that country is progressing since the majority of republicans decided to chose the democratic path.

pablomakaveli

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Second page in, might as well mention West Brits.

Just need someone to mention "true Irish people" now and i'll win at Northern Ireland thread bingo.

Captain Farrell

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Just need someone to mention "true Irish people" now and i'll win at Northern Ireland thread bingo.

I just need Nodin and Fratton Fred for a full house.

ArmaniJeanss

I was at line 5 before I stopped reading it like a poem.

keeponhurling

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Second page in, might as well mention West Brits.

Might as well also mention barstoolers

DeadHand

Just curious OP, you claim not to have your freedom.

Just how does this lack of freedom manifest itself in your practical, everyday life?

Put simply, what can someone in the Republic or a member of the Unionist community do that you can't?

Hande hoche!

keeponhurling wrote: »

Might as well also mention barstoolers

True, it's understandably a cynical/jaded group on a Monday morning.

Days 298

The last thing I want is a united Ireland. Flags and parades are national issues up their.

I much prefer the republic as it is. Free from cultural divides, regular bomb threats and riots on the drop of a flag free.

Thanks but no thanks. The south is much nicer and I like knowing that my fellow country men don't have a hatred for me because of my background.

Just an old mans republican wet dream. The south says no unification! Just a lot of trouble for little reward. Let the Brits pay to police and run it.

megafan

[QUOTE=Sounds;88127955]December 23rd 2013





I've been in other countries, the UK included, great place,
And i always felt a sense of freedom, yet when i come home, I feel i'm part
of something that's not really mine, something is missing, my independence I dunno.




Have we ever been independent? As soon as we broke away from GB what happened?? We sold out to Rome & as soon as we start to break away from the clergy we allow corrupt politicians & the EC with its incomplete banking system to beggar us again!:mad:

BadCompany

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I was at line 5 before I stopped reading it like a poem.

Haha, I was about to ask if I was the only one looking for a rhyming scheme!

An Coilean

DeadHand wrote: »

Just curious OP, you claim not to have your freedom.

Just how does this lack of freedom manifest itself in your practical, everyday life?

Put simply, what can someone in the Republic or a member of the Unionist community do that you can't?

Become head of state in theory?

johnnyskeleton

I find it interesting that you relate to the partition issue on a personal / emotional level rather than the political, having a feeling that you are less free here than in say the USA.

Whatever about the States duty to educate you, provide health and emergency services and temporary welfare payments/accomodation, the state does not have a duty to make you feel better emotionally, nor could it ever really do that.

ruthloss

We had a Referendum about this question.
The majority voted for a change to our Constitution. (19th Change)

Northern Ireland will not become part of a United Ireland until and when the Majority of it's citizens vote for it.(Part of the Good Friday Agreement I believe)


3.1. It is the firm will of the Irish nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island. Until then, the laws enacted by the Parliament established by this Constitution shall have the like area and extent of application as the laws enacted by the Parliament that existed immediately before the coming into operation of this Constitution.

Richard

Captain Farrell wrote: »

I just need Nodin and Fratton Fred for a full house.

I think we need a KeithAFC re-reg.

keeponhurling

An Coilean wrote: »

Become head of state in theory?

McAleese became President.

Plus theoretically somebody from the North like Gerry Adams can be elected in Louth so hypothetically could be Taoiseach.

You couldn't vote though

Nodin

megafan wrote: »

Have we ever been independent? As soon as we broke away from GB what happened?? We sold out to Rome & as soon as we start to break away from the clergy we allow corrupt politicians & the EC with its incomplete banking system to beggar us again!:mad:

The church was embedded long before independence, unfortunately.

dd972

Reunite the Island and make it part of Denmark or Norway, people who know how to run a fecking country ! :pac:

Nodin

dd972 wrote: »

Reunite the Island and make it part of Denmark or Norway, people who know how to run a fecking country ! :pac:

Or Finland. We could go there in the Winter for real snow.

harryr711

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I'm more convinced than ever that there is plants put on boards to start these threads as a wind up or to watch a long silly argument that they can observe!

Jesus every 2 days one of these threads is opened and its the same discussion over and over.

Plants or darker forces at play!

Yeah, especially when you see the same ill-founded arguments for partition are trodden out (only to be disproved when facts and reality are brought into the thread).

TJ Lazer

Frank Black wrote: »

Guess what, you're not the spokesperson for 'Irish people'.

Many people in the Republic and in NI have no wish for the Republic to assume ownership of the North. Even from the basis of an economic or security viewpoint, the very idea would be horrific.

Anyhow, these NI threads are becoming tedious.

I personally don't care what the majority of the people want. The whole consent thing only became an issue towards the end of the 19th century and the British changed the goal posts at the last minute when they saw the damage Irish self determination might do to the 'Empire'.

Prior to any consent being sought in Ireland with regards to the governing of our own affairs, the country was governed with an iron fist by a small elite.

I agree with the OP. Ireland is no more free than Afghanistan or Iraq are. They may have national governments of their own but the governments are hardly the expressed will of the people.

Iwasfrozen

TJ Lazer wrote: »

I personally don't care what the majority of the people want. The whole consent thing only became an issue towards the end of the 19th century and the British changed the goal posts at the last minute when they saw the damage Irish self determination might do to the 'Empire'.

Prior to any consent being sought in Ireland with regards to the governing of our own affairs, the country was governed with an iron fist by a small elite.

I agree with the OP. Ireland is no more free than Afghanistan or Iraq are. They may have national governments of their own but the governments are hardly the expressed will of the people.

Well it's a good thing most people do then isn't it?

Amirani

TJ Lazer wrote:

I agree with the OP. Ireland is no more free than Afghanistan or Iraq are. They may have national governments of their own but the governments are hardly the expressed will of the people.

Truly bizarre.

Richard

harryr711 wrote: »

Yeah, especially when you see the same ill-founded arguments for partition are trodden out (only to be disproved when facts and reality are brought into the thread).

There's no point arguing the merits or otherwise of partitioning Ireland. Concentrate on the arguments for uniting Ireland now (if you want).

TJ Lazer

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well it's a good thing most people do then isn't it?

No it's not. I don't think it's fair that 1 million Unionists desire to remain in the Union should trump 4 million Nationalists desire to be in a United Ireland just because the British say so.

Look at it this way; how much weight do you think the GFA will carry if Scotland exits the Union?

Tiddlypeeps

TJ Lazer wrote: »

No it's not. I don't think it's fair that 1 million Unionists desire to remain in the Union should trump 4 million Nationalists desire to be in a United Ireland just because the British say so.

Look at it this way; how much weight do you think the GFA will carry if Scotland exits the Union?

There aren't 5 million people in Northern Irleand

Why would Scotland leaving the UK effect the good friday agreement?