The Giant Prehistoric Bird Thread

Adam Khor · 28-06-2012 2:13am #1

Or so scientists believe, based on a measly little bone found in a cove.
But still, the creature is awesome- 6 meter wingspan, beak armed with false-teeth, and this picture is awesome too:

http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/breaking-news-blog/prehistoric-bird-fossil-located-on-bayside-beach/20120628-213sd.html

Galvasean · 29-06-2012 1:05pm

Seems like a lot to extrapolate based on one incomplete bone. I'm sure they could deduce it was avian and most likely related to Pelagornis, but to state the exact genus seems a bit over reaching to me.

Adam Khor · 29-06-2012 8:36pm

Galvasean wrote: »

Seems like a lot to extrapolate based on one incomplete bone. I'm sure they could deduce it was avian and most likely related to Pelagornis, but to state the exact genus seems a bit over reaching to me.

Yeah, well, you know they do that a lot

Rubecula · 29-06-2012 8:49pm

Right or wrong it does make you think that perhaps these creatures had a lifestyle perhaps similar to a wandering albatross. (Which goes to sea for 10 years before returning to land to breed.)

Something that big must have had a similar method of flying I think.

Adam Khor · 29-06-2012 8:50pm

Rubecula wrote: »

Right or wrong it does make you think that perhaps these creatures had a lifestyle perhaps similar to a wandering albatross. (Which goes to sea for 10 years before returning to land to breed.)

Something that big must have had a similar method of flying I think.

Indeed, and so it is possible that they didn´t have a very definite distribution- they could probably fly enormous distances and show up anywhere in the globe, as has also been suggested for some giant marine pterosaurs :>

Adam Khor · 24-11-2012 2:22am

Scientists say a recently discovered footprint may suggest so. Im not sure I buy their reasons, tho. According to them, "all carnivorous birds have sharp, long talons".

Only, modern day carnivorous birds can fly.

This guy was flightless and its toenails were worn from constant walking on the ground. The toenails of T. rex were rather blunt too (they were more like ostrich toenails than eagle talons). The thing Diatryma and T. Rex have in common is that whatever they were eating, they used their jaws, not their feet, to get their food.

As for their being slow, they could have been ambush hunters. I think we should wait until we find its stomach contents or something to be really sure...

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1112736041/giant-eocene-bird-peaceful-herbivore-112312/

Galvasean · 25-11-2012 2:09pm

If you ask me, the beak apears to be overdeveloped for a plant eating lifestyle. Unless, of course, it ate particularly large nuts or hard shelled fruits.
I'd imagine such birds would have made excellent scavengers. There weren't many other large predators of note so they could probably intimidate rivals with their size. The massive beak looks like* it would be capable of cracking through bone so Gastrnis could then gorge itself on the nutritious marrow.

*Have there been any studies to show how powerful said beak was?

Rubecula · 25-11-2012 8:46pm

Coconuts?

Adam Khor · 25-11-2012 10:10pm

Rubecula wrote: »

Coconuts?

Could be... apparently coconuts and coconut-like fruits were already around by then but, have any been found around where Gastornis lived? If it had been specialized on that they should have been very abundant...

Been looking at its skull and comparing it to living birds that have somewhat similar beaks, btw:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7EiruOsYr5ed8BH1YEscrfDhqNj-kzhtLxwMtwMtqEoUyZuZd

The most similar I found is this, the thick-billed raven from Africa, which is an omnivore with a tendency to carnivory.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRb_s4zbryJaoH7fOxdirlIXDTGqepdd7QrMJ4g5DlJ6bEjLPw4

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRb_s4zbryJaoH7fOxdirlIXDTGqepdd7QrMJ4g5DlJ6bEjLPw4

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2kRTfRTUENvXurpp3t0LvFhxXuC9c-NcvRLVnEiBke_-wPXuqRw

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZKyTcR0XUTfzxXca-XZxVsBkasllwKsSXYrwSRsUVNXL0zJNHgw

There's also the Helmet Vanga which is much smaller but still has a somewhat similar bill. This one feeds mostly on small animals, especially large insects.

Galvasean · 25-11-2012 10:20pm

That thick billed raven's beak looks a lot lik that of Dromornis, another giant flightless prehistoric bird with a question mark over its dietary habits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dromornis_stirtoni

Adam Khor · 31-08-2013 9:48pm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130829214559.htm

Galvasean · 01-09-2013 11:40am

I really wish news outlets wouldn't wouldn't refer to Gastornis as a 'terror bird'. It just gets people confusing them with the phorusrhacidae.

Adam Khor · 02-09-2013 12:21am

Galvasean wrote: »

I really wish news outlets wouldn't wouldn't refer to Gastornis as a 'terror bird'. It just gets people confusing them with the phorusrhacidae.

I agree. Now people will think actual terror birds are vegetarian

Galvasean · 02-09-2013 11:36pm

Clamboured up on my soapbox about it...
http://www.krank.ie/category/sci/gastornis/

Adam Khor · 03-09-2013 7:24pm

I'm not going to start defending the predator theory now that evidence is piling up against it, BUT... I always thought the footprints were very poor evidence. I mean, there are no flightless raptors nowadays, and no predatory birds of that size. That means we really have no reason to expect sharp talons in a creature like Gastornis; I would expect its claws to be blunt and worn out, same as those of most large theropods- after all the feet would be busy carrying the creature around while it did all the dirty work with its beak...

Galvasean · 03-09-2013 9:03pm

Good point. Also, considering just how big Gastornis was they could have trampled small critters to death. Blunt trauma being a good weapon and all. That said, the isotope analysis is very compelling evidence for herbivority (is that a word).

Adam Khor · 03-09-2013 11:55pm

I think the word is herbivory :B

And true; now that I think about it, the secretary bird kills most of its prey- venomous snakes included- by trampling them :>

Adam Khor · 05-10-2013 9:32pm

http://www.sci-news.com/paleontology/science-diet-moa-01431.html

Rubecula · 06-10-2013 2:08am

The Moa is a sad loss I feel. What a wonderful bird it must have been. Ditto the Elephant bird of Madagascar. And the Haart's Eagle too.

Galvasean · 06-10-2013 6:35pm

It's weird to think that they were roaming around so recently.

Adam Khor · 19-12-2013 1:44am

http://www.livescience.com/42076-giant-moa-loses-weight.html

Moa_2.jpg?1387401318

Galvasean · 21-12-2013 3:29am

So Haast's eagle was perhaps not as powerful as we thought?

Adam Khor · 22-12-2013 2:01am

Powerful enough to eat people if old Maori stories are to be believed :cool:

Adam Khor · 22-12-2013 2:05am

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/19/kiwi-bird-could-have-australian-roots-says-expert-after-fossil-discovery

Manach · 22-12-2013 3:04am

When I see mention of New Zealand I think Middle Earth.
But, given the distance between there and Australia, and the description of the proto-Kiwi as chicken sized - how likely would it be for a sufficient population to fly there but instead to independently evolve from the Moa.

Kess73 · 23-12-2013 12:27am

Adam Khor wrote: »

Powerful enough to eat people if old Maori stories are to be believed :cool:

Would tend to believe that the Haast Eagle was capable of taking down very large prey.

Modern day Golden Eagles have been confirmed as having attacked and killed adult swans, adult foxes, adult badgers (American and Eurasian), adult reindeer, adult sheep, and even young cattle up to about 100kg.

A Haast Eagle would have been up to 50% or so heavier than a Golden eagle and it's remains suggest it was much more strongly build. Basically designed perfectly to take out larger prey than what a modern day Golden eagle can.

Cannot think of any reason why a large Haast eagle could not have attacked and killed a human. The initial strike from such a large raptor would leave a grown man in no position to be able to defend himself.

Manach · 23-12-2013 12:30am

Well as Aeschylus discovered to his cost, all eagles have to do is to divebomb using turtles.

Rubecula · 23-12-2013 2:10am

Kess73 wrote: »

Would tend to believe that the Haast Eagle was capable of taking down very large prey.

Modern day Golden Eagles have been confirmed as having attacked and killed adult swans, adult foxes, adult badgers (American and Eurasian), adult reindeer, adult sheep, and even young cattle up to about 100kg.

A Haast Eagle would have been up to 50% or so heavier than a Golden eagle and it's remains suggest it was much more strongly build. Basically designed perfectly to take out larger prey than what a modern day Golden eagle can.

Cannot think of any reason why a large Haast eagle could not have attacked and killed a human. The initial strike from such a large raptor would leave a grown man in no position to be able to defend himself.

I remember seeing a clip on youtube showing a golden eagle taking on a Grizzly bear, and winning despite the size difference. Didn't kill the bear of course, but had it running for it's life.

Adam Khor · 23-12-2013 4:47am

Kess73 wrote: »

Would tend to believe that the Haast Eagle was capable of taking down very large prey.

Modern day Golden Eagles have been confirmed as having attacked and killed adult swans, adult foxes, adult badgers (American and Eurasian), adult reindeer, adult sheep, and even young cattle up to about 100kg.

Cannot think of any reason why a large Haast eagle could not have attacked and killed a human. The initial strike from such a large raptor would leave a grown man in no position to be able to defend himself.

A golden eagle could kill a human, if motivated enough. In central Asia golden eagles are trained to hunt wolves, which may not be as heavy as the cattle you mention, but are surely more dangerous game. The eagle uses one talon to shut the wolf's jaws close, and the other to hold it still. Apparently the hunters usually try to get to the wolf before the eagle can do much damage to the skin, but I think I do remember reading about the eagle itself doing the kill. In Africa, children have been mauled by crowned eagles and the skulls of babies/toddlers have been found in their nests (which would make them the only bird of prey that still see us as prey).

We also tend to forget that there was another eagle as large as the Haast's eagle in North America- it may have encountered humans as well, and was probably more similar to the golden eagle as it was used to hunting in open spaces, rather than forested areas like the Haast's.

Manach wrote: »

Well as Aeschylus discovered to his cost, all eagles have to do is to divebomb using turtles.

Wasn´t that a bearded vulture?

Kess73 · 23-12-2013 1:35pm

Rubecula wrote: »

I remember seeing a clip on youtube showing a golden eagle taking on a Grizzly bear, and winning despite the size difference. Didn't kill the bear of course, but had it running for it's life.

They are also confirmed as predating on bear cubs ( Black and brown bears)

Kess73 · 23-12-2013 1:41pm

Adam Khor wrote: »

A golden eagle could kill a human, if motivated enough. In central Asia golden eagles are trained to hunt wolves, which may not be as heavy as the cattle you mention, but are surely more dangerous game. The eagle uses one talon to shut the wolf's jaws close, and the other to hold it still. Apparently the hunters usually try to get to the wolf before the eagle can do much damage to the skin, but I think I do remember reading about the eagle itself doing the kill. In Africa, children have been mauled by crowned eagles and the skulls of babies/toddlers have been found in their nests (which would make them the only bird of prey that still see us as prey).

We also tend to forget that there was another eagle as large as the Haast's eagle in North America- it may have encountered humans as well, and was probably more similar to the golden eagle as it was used to hunting in open spaces, rather than forested areas like the Haast's.

Wasn´t that a bearded vulture?

Have little doubt that they have the tools to do so. Could easily imagine the initial strike possessing the force required to stun a human and maybe even breaking the neck of a human if the strike connected just right.

You are spot on about how they use their talons on prey that is capable of fighting back, and those talons are deceptively strong.

The Giant Prehistoric Bird Thread

Comments