muslim staff can refuse to serve pork or alcohol

Phoebas · 22-12-2013 05:49PM

cerastes wrote: »

So what does a customer have to do, bad enough hedging your bets on which Q is gonna get slowed down, now people have to check for religion, its just too much stupid in one go, how will they be identified?

I presume they'll just have a sign on the till saying that alcohol isn't served at that till. Much like they do in supermarkets every day of the week when there is an under 18 year old working the till.

My name is URL · 22-12-2013 05:50PM

Phoebas wrote: »

Of course it is. Its a silly little rule, but not something I'd be getting my knickers in a twist over. Just like this silly thing in M&S.
Just go to the next till where you can buy your sausages and beer. No big deal.

So you're happy enough to just accept all these silly religion-based rules being imposed upon you? Why should people see it as 'no big deal' exactly... it causes unnecessary inconvenience to people, and for no other reason than to appease a few hard-line fanatics.

The public should rightly voice their disagreement to it.

shane9689 · 22-12-2013 05:53PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Imagine the uproar if you went to tesco to buy condoms and all the catholic employees refused to sell them to you. But don't say anything about the Islamic faith unless you want to be labelled a racist

funny, because back in the day, that was kind of the case

Phoebas · 22-12-2013 05:53PM

My name is URL wrote: »

So you're happy enough to just accept all these silly religion-based rules being imposed upon you? Why should people see it as 'no big deal' exactly... it causes unnecessary inconvenience to people, and for no other reason than to appease a few hard-line fanatics.

The public should rightly voice their disagreement to it.

I'm not that happy with it, but its just a minor inconvenience really. No big deal - anyone who wants sausages and beer will get sausages and beer.

cerastes · 22-12-2013 05:55PM

Phoebas wrote: »

I'm not that happy with it, but its just a minor inconvenience really. No big deal - anyone who wants sausages and beer will get sausages and beer.

In another store hopefully

_Redzer_ · 22-12-2013 05:56PM

Phoebas wrote: »

I'm not that happy with it, but its just a minor inconvenience really. No big deal - anyone who wants sausages and beer will get sausages and beer.

Don't care, it shouldn't be happening in the first place.

Get rid of the stupid law - I'm happy, they're happy, everybody wins.

Oh hang on, the religious probably won't be happy with that since everyone should conform to what they think...

Phoebas · 22-12-2013 05:56PM

cerastes wrote: »

In another store hopefully

If people want to turn a small inconvenience into a bigger one, they're free to do that too.

Potential-Monke · 22-12-2013 05:57PM

Phoebas wrote: »

I'm not that happy with it, but its just a minor inconvenience really. No big deal - anyone who wants sausages and beer will get sausages and beer.

You're missing the point. Yes it's a minor inconvenience, but it's the principle that's the issue. No pork/alcohol today, and next thing you're being forced to stop shopping during prayer tume while they sing to a made up diety?! Extreme, but letting them away with this paves the path for more extreme views/rules. Why should someone's insistence on following stupid rules force me to behave differently?

Don't want to handle pork/alcohol products? Don't get a job in a freckin supermarket!

22-12-2013 06:01PM

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Those signs disgust me as well.

It should of course be "ten items or fewer".

or "maximum ten items, service charge of 50c for eleven or more!"
I hate it when someone has about 20 items and use the 10 or less queue! :mad:

The Diabolical Monocle · 22-12-2013 06:02PM

Contract/Job description:

Employee duties include serving alcohol.

Future employee problems solved.

damke_1 · 22-12-2013 06:06PM

i know that Muslims are forbidden to produce, drink, serve, sell or distribute alcohol and pork and it's a commandment, period. what i don't understand is people getting upset about it on forums which causes others to believe they are all the same and this creates a stereotype among people. this is absurd to me that people work in stores, cafes or any other place where alcohol is distributed. if they know about it they shouldn't even apply for a job, but then again i don't see the problem of taking an order and asking someone else to bring it to the table, or to the register. but don't all get upset and lose your temper over it and spit on people since you have no clue about their religion except what you are told by the media

_Redzer_ · 22-12-2013 06:09PM

If you were a Jehovah's Witness and a doctor and refused to give a blood transfusion you should be rightfully told to fúck off out of the medical field.

Religion has zero place in the real world and should be solely kept to their respective churches.

cerastes · 22-12-2013 06:11PM

Phoebas wrote: »

If people want to turn a small inconvenience into a bigger one, they're free to do that too.

Maybe its a matter of principle, they wont be any more inconvenienced by choosing to go elsewhere, M&S is a rip off so probably better in the long run,
I myself boycott them on that basis, if religious beliefs guide the signage it'll be become ridiculous.

No condoms on till 5, no pork on till 9,

Cant believe I was codded into working on my holy day all those years, I really need to get into a religion with some clout behind it,

Phoebas · 22-12-2013 06:16PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

You're missing the point. Yes it's a minor inconvenience, but it's the principle that's the issue. No pork/alcohol today, and next thing you're being forced to stop shopping during prayer tume while they sing to a made up diety?! Extreme, but letting them away with this paves the path for more extreme views/rules. Why should someone's insistence on following stupid rules force me to behave differently?

Don't want to handle pork/alcohol products? Don't get a job in a freckin supermarket!

The slippery slope argument? I'm not really buying that.

Tell me - should under 18s be barred from employment in supermarkets? They also can't sell alcohol.

humbert · 22-12-2013 06:18PM

Why is it so often the case that tolerating someone else's beliefs feels more like being expected to tolerate someone else's intolerance.

Paramite Pie · 22-12-2013 06:48PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Imagine the uproar if you went to tesco to buy condoms and all the catholic employees refused to sell them to you. But don't say anything about the Islamic faith unless you want to be labelled a racist

This happened in a store I worked in, a very Catholic employee who has since joined a seminary, refused to sell condoms to a customer. The management gave him an awful bollocking.

We shouldn't pander to any one faith. Cows are sacred in India but they don't complain if I bring some beef to their checkout, and to be honest no Muslim ever refused me for buying alcohol in my local spar (this Spar appears to be run by Muslims - yet they sell alcohol to those who wish to drink it).

My mum got a bottle of wine as a gift from our Muslim neighbours for Christmas. They neither celebrate Christmas nor drink. Nice people still gave a gift and wished us merry christmas.

Issues like this only aggravate racial/cultural tensions, we'll always have an 'us and them' mentality if the PC lefties keep giving into uber-religious far-right demands. I'd like a secular supermarket please.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

The top comment in that article, where the majority of people in Morocco are Muslim and they have no problems selling pork/alcohol products...

Morocco also had a ban on the burka for a while too but it was relaxed recently in the Arab springs. However government officials/employees still cannot wear any religious symbols while in office in Morocco as far as I can tell.

When Europeans try to treat Islam like some more secular Muslim countries (Turkey, Morocco, Lebannon etc), we're accused of being anti-Islamic, often by our own "do-gooders".

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 22-12-2013 06:52PM

Hitchens wrote: »

What's wrong here? only one member of the PC Brigade 'anti-racist' crew popped the little head up so far

hold the popcorn for awhile

What? Who? Surely you don;t mean Santa - i mean, he exists...

lazybones32 · 22-12-2013 06:55PM

I'd do the exact same.

And if I'd time, I fill a few more trollies and go to the same register.....nothing beats being a pain-in-the-ass to idiots

partyatmygaff · 22-12-2013 07:06PM

The funny thing is some Muslims in the Middle East have no problem selling alcohol.

Completely ridiculous from M&S. What next, will staff be allowed to ask customers to change tills if someone tries to buy clothes they don't agree with?

preston johnny · 22-12-2013 07:15PM

Strike back at Islam.

Run into your local mosque with 20 pounds of pork sausages strapped to your chest.

LOSTfan57 · 22-12-2013 07:19PM

Bahaha what a pile of ****e! PC is totally takin over its bloody ridiculous

22-12-2013 07:24PM

Where will I buy Percy pigs from now? :-(

efb · 22-12-2013 07:25PM

Mail couldn't wait to jump on this! It would be like no selling alcohol on Good Friday... Oh wait...

cathalomurchu · 22-12-2013 07:28PM

Well isn't this the same if you're under 18. A Supermarket won't employ you because you're not allowed to sell alcohol. They shouldn't be allowed to be employed either.

Paramite Pie · 22-12-2013 08:09PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

What about it? Nobody is holding a gun to your head, you can go to another till, or another shop.

I was in Tesco the other day and picked up 11 funsize packets of Kitkats. When I saw the ten items or less sign at the checkout I left them back in disgust and I haven't left the house since.

As a checkout operator I can tell you that we don't actually count the items. No-one gets turned away unless they have an obviously large amount of stuff since the express queue needs to keep moving.

Phoebas wrote: »

I'm not that happy with it, but its just a minor inconvenience really. No big deal - anyone who wants sausages and beer will get sausages and beer.

And it's a minor inconvenience if my doctor won't give the morning after pill, after all I can get it somewhere else. Or refusing abortions on religious grounds.

Phoebas wrote: »

The slippery slope argument? I'm not really buying that.

-Hindus refusing to sell beef?
-Well what if vegetarians refused to all handle meat products since it's 'murder'?
-Jews refuse to handle non-Kosher food ('unclean' food like shrimp?)
-What if Christians refuse to sell Halal products since its "sacrificed to an idol", which is forbidden in Christianity?
-Refusal to sell condoms on religious grounds?
-Refusal to give mortgages to unmarried couples?

Allowing religious exemptions for one group and not another is an unsettling precedent. No one takes Christians seriously when they refuse to sell condoms but other religions are favoured. I'm an Atheist and I don't approve.

Can you honestly tell me you would accept a Christian refusing you service for alcohol, or condoms? I wouldn't.

Phoebas wrote: »

Tell me - should under 18s be barred from employment in supermarkets? They also can't sell alcohol.

That's not quite the same thing - this is not a supermarket policy, it's a law and it does not specifically mention any religious affiliation.

Minors should not be expected to deal with drunken customers or to gauge their sobriety since they don't have the much experience with drinking (on average). It'd be difficult to charge a minor for sale of alcohol to other minors aswell. Minors don't choose whether they can sell alcohol or not.

_Redzer_ · 22-12-2013 08:22PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

What about it? Nobody is holding a gun to your head, you can go to another till, or another shop.

I was in Tesco the other day and picked up 11 funsize packets of Kitkats. When I saw the ten items or less sign at the checkout I left them back in disgust and I haven't left the house since.

Nobody is holding a gun to their head to work there. Don't like it, quit your job. They should be thankful for the job they have.

Billy86 · 22-12-2013 08:27PM

I do agree it's a stupid decision by M&S (I don't mind it at all, but keeping them on the tills is dumb. I also hate when a 16/17 year old is on the till and I have alcohol, meaning they have to get an older member of staff to put it through).

So I've come up with a better idea... on Wednesday, let's all go to our local shops/supermarkets and protest by buying all the alcohol we can if there is a Muslim behind the counter. Who's with me???

darkpagandeath · 22-12-2013 08:42PM

If there was only some kind of designated area to practice your faith/religion .... If i said it was part of my faith to Tattoo my whole body and wear a grass skirt wonder how many job offers i would get ...

Manach · 22-12-2013 08:48PM

In spite of the misplaced and self-serving anti-religious narrative, religious mores and traditions are an intricate and vibrant part of most cultures. To image that simply declaring region to be a private matter and not for discussion in the public square is about as delusional as other secular concepts that have been touted.

Donkey Oaty · 22-12-2013 09:02PM

Here's a question on the SunniPath, an educational website:

I am working in Morrison's and I'm on the check outs, I wanted to know that because I am dealing with haram [forbidden] things such as beef, pork, ham is it haram for me to touch them things?

Here's the answer by Faraz Rabbani, an Islamic scholar:

It would be permitted to work on the check out of a supermarket that sells things Muslims consider impermissible (such as pork, alcohol, wine, or food items with haram ingredients). One’s earnings will be lawful (halal). This is the position of Imam Abu Hanifa (Allah have mercy on him)...this ruling refers to doing so in a non-Muslim country or in non-Muslim areas in a Muslim country.

Some members of the Islamic lunatic fringe think that even shopping at M&S is haram (Zionist connections, but that's another story) let alone working there, and others think that even living or paying taxes in a non-Muslim country is haram - but these are not representative views.

I can't help thinking that M&S's decision is bad news for mainstream Muslims who couldn't care less about many of these issues and are fed up of being portrayed as a group that is constantly demanding special treatment.

muslim staff can refuse to serve pork or alcohol

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