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loss leaders ?

2

Comments

  • #32
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Days 298


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Don't alot of our exports sell for lower price in the EU than it costs to buy here ? were clearly being overcharged.

    If we are clearly being overcharged you'll obviously bring forth examples. Not as if reduction in sellers is going to reduce the overcharging. If anything it will get worse.

    Its not as if the execs in Aldi, Dunnes and Tesco looked and saw the plight of the Irish consumer and wanted to help. If they did they would permanently lower prices to a sustainable level not price wars. Big companies answer to shareholders not consumers.


  • #33
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Days 298 wrote: »
    If we are clearly being overcharged you'll obviously bring forth examples. Not as if reduction in sellers is going to reduce the overcharging. If anything it will get worse.

    Its not as if the execs in Aldi, Dunnes and Tesco looked and saw the plight of the Irish consumer and wanted to help. If they did they would permanently lower prices to a sustainable level not price wars. Big companies answer to shareholders not consumers.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0624/458524-irish-food-and-beverage-prices-above-eu-average/


  • #34
    Voltex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭Voltex


    Retailer models are changing. Loss leaders were based on getting 90 days EOM..banking cash and gaining margin on deposit interest rates. Aldi and Lidl models of Every Day Low Price (EDLP) is the new model that the MSVC, Dunnes and Tesco have figured out and are applying into strategy. I know cause I'm in the thick of it.

    The days of BOGOF and multi-buys will end in favour of EDLP, innovation and buyer experience.

    I see it happening that the discounters are riding the crest of a wave right now..but the recognition of what consumers perceive as value has been recognised by the big 3.
    The continued use of loss leaders is a temporary tactic until the EDLP model is rolled out.


  • #35
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Days 298


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0624/458524-irish-food-and-beverage-prices-above-eu-average/

    Cost of living is high here but it doesn't mention suppliers overcharging here over the produce they are exporting. The article even mentions tobacco prices, never really had a tradition of selling that.


  • #36
    Henwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 635 ✭✭✭Henwin


    well as my boyfriend is a former potato grower, i can tell you the suppliers and supermarkets make huge profits from fleecing small food producers. They set the price, you take it or leave it. we always had to pay the price for in store offers.

    Seriously he worked from 6 in the morning till 12 at night for years producing potatos. the costs for seed spuds, diesel, spray and packaging are huge, then after all that work and money the suppliers offer you a pittance for them, you hav no choice only to sell them for below cost prices. if you go to the shops directly tey will threaten you that they wont buy any more from you.
    Often they wont want them if they have enough, so you hav no choice only to plough them back into the field. heartbreaking stuff.

    Bullys the lot of them.
    he got out of vegetable growing after loosing thousands and affecting his health through the sprays, overtime hours etc
    he is now in dairy farming which at least you get paid for your milk.
    I would love if all children in the country get to spend a few weeks on various farms throughout their childhood. it mite open their eyes to the amount of work and money tat goes into farming and they mite change their minds on the 'whinging farmers'


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  • #37
    Outkast_IRE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,511 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    I know food prices are a bit higher here but doesn't anybody think that the quality of our food and standards they are held to, are quite high compared to many other EU countries.

    Just from family members living abroad and visitors to the country, they all seem to remark that food quality here is often much higher than their home countries.


  • #38
    The_Pretender
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 594 ✭✭✭The_Pretender


    Outkast_IRE wrote: »
    I know food prices are a bit higher here but doesn't anybody think that the quality of our food and standards they are held too are quite high compared to many other EU countries.

    Just from family members living abroad and visitors to the country, they all seem to remark that food quality here is often much higher than their home countries.

    I agree with you saying that food quality is better here, but it's not a case of paying more money for better quality food. It's a case of paying more money to supermarkets who are going to pocket it themselelves without giving the fair share to the farmers who actually produce this high quality food.


  • #39
    Silverbling
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 311 ✭✭Silverbling


    loss leaders were expected in the 80's they disappeared during the celtic tiger and are now back, all business's have used them subtly for years, the retailer stands the cost, self employed life is hard enough without being squeezed by suppliers


  • #40
    Voltex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭Voltex


    Outkast_IRE wrote: »
    I know food prices are a bit higher here but doesn't anybody think that the quality of our food and standards they are held too are quite high compared to many other EU countries.

    Just from family members living abroad and visitors to the country, they all seem to remark that food quality here is often much higher than their home countries.
    You are absolutely bang on there!! Irish agri-food products are considered higher quality. I was in Migros in Zurich airport recently where Irish fillet steak was being sold for SFr60....we don't give our best industry enough credit.


  • #41
    Rabelais
    Site Banned Posts: 263 ✭✭Rabelais


    I love Aldi. But they do lean heavily on their producers. It's the nature of the industry in which they operate. They source more of their goods from Irish producers than any other supermarket chain. But it comes at a cost. We now spend less of our disposable income on food than at any other time in history.

    If you want premium meat, bread and vegetables then visit a good butcher, bakery, and F&V shop.

    No point complaining about a race to the bottom if you're hand in glove in the whole thing.


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  • #42
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Rabelais wrote: »
    I love Aldi. But they do lean heavily on their producers. It's the nature of the industry in which they operate. They source more of their goods from Irish producers than any other supermarket chain. But it comes at a cost. We now spend less of our disposable income on food than at any other time in history.

    If you want premium meat, bread and vegetables then visit a good butcher, bakery, and F&V shop.

    No point complaining about a race to the bottom if you're hand in glove in the whole thing.

    Why does it have to be ? If producers/suppliers could not make a profit on what they sell to the supermarkets they would already be out of business. Suppliers/producers already undercut each other they just don't make as much profit as they would like. If they had their way there would be minimum pricing and we would all be paying well over the odd’s for stuff


  • #43
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Days 298


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Why does it have to be ? If producers/suppliers could not make a profit on what they sell to the supermarkets they would already be out of business. Suppliers/producers already undercut each other they just don't make as much profit as they would like. If they had their way there would be minimum pricing and we would all be paying well over the odd’s for stuff

    Suppliers/producers are price takers. They have no reason the under cut each other. If they had their way they would be earning higher profits, due to perfect competition between suppliers of homogenous goods being discussed in the long run they are happy to produce if they can earn normal profits.


  • #44
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Days 298 wrote: »
    Suppliers/producers are price takers. They have no reason the under cut each other. If they had their way they would be earning higher profits, due to perfect competition between suppliers of homogenous goods being discussed in the long run they are happy to produce if they can earn normal profits.

    So none of them undercut to gain more contracts ? As what your describing is price fixing and then they wonder why people don't listen when they cry wolf ... were not making enough profit .. no no sorry we mean were being driven out of business thats it...


  • #45
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Days 298


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    So none of them undercut to gain more contracts ? As what your describing is price fixing and then they wonder why people don't listen when they cry wolf ... were not making enough profit .. no no sorry we mean were being driven out of business thats it...

    No I am not describing price fixing. I said "price taking". Google ;)


  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If the supermarkets/distributors are ripping off producers so much why is it so rare to find a bargain at a farmers' market? Usually the only bargain seems like a "loss leader" itself when prices are cut by half for one day only.


  • #47
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    No point in blaming retailers for this. Consumers (you and I) constantly bitch about prices and demand cheaper and cheaper crap to ram down our glutinous food holes.


  • #48
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    kneemos wrote: »
    I thought Sinn Fein were for the "ordinary man"how come they're siding with the farmers?

    Quiet there! Farmers are ordinary men .......... just doing an extra-ordinary job ........ cashing grant cheques, whinging about the EEU common policy, Tesco, Weather, price of agricultural diesel (can only get 60 miles per gallon in family saloon) and GM Foods. AND they eat their dinner in the middle of the day.


  • #49
    camel jockey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭camel jockey


    I'm boycotting sprouts and all other vegetables this Christmas, in solidarity with the Farmers of Ireland.


  • #50
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Fúcking whinging farmers - you'd be sick and tired of them. It's too hot, it's too cold, it's too dry, it's too wet - just shut the fúck up the lot of you - if you can't make a living being a farmer - don't be a fúcking farmer. Simple.


  • #51
    The_Pretender
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 594 ✭✭✭The_Pretender


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Fúcking whinging farmers - you'd be sick and tired of them. It's too hot, it's too cold, it's too dry, it's too wet - just shut the fúck up the lot of you - if you can't make a living being a farmer - don't be a fúcking farmer. Simple.

    The point is, if supermarkets don't offer prices to farmers that they can actually live off, then Irish farmers will cease to exist. If this happens, supermarkets are going to have to import the same crops anyway, and in the end we'll still just go back to paying the prices we should be paying or else possibly more, with transport costs taken into account.


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  • #52
    robbok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69 ✭✭robbok


    Supermarkets NEVER take the hit in the long term, any promotion in supermarkets will be at the expense of the supplier who will hope to make up the loss in higher volume sales.
    Customers are now expecting vegetables to be extremely cheap and so the supermarkets will push down prices to an unsustainable level for farmers
    Farmers have every right to complain


  • #53
    animaal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 815 ✭✭✭animaal


    I find it interesting how quickly things are moving for the introduction of laws to protect producers.

    On the other hand, when price increases affect consumers, there's a lot of hand waving and talk of "necessary profit levels to encourage competition".

    Remember those livestock crises a few years ago that affected animals in UK but not in Ireland? Beef prices in Ireland rocketed. Not because of difficulties with Irish production, but because a shortage in the UK meant higher prices could now be gotten. There was no thought of capping prices in Ireland, despite public support being sought for those feet-wiping mats, etc.

    The agriculture sector needs to decide whether it wants to operate in a free market, or not. Can't have it both ways.


  • #54
    wonski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,679 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    camel jockey wrote: »
    I'm boycotting sprouts and all other vegetables this Christmas, in solidarity with the Farmers of Ireland.

    The Pineapple, Melons and Clementine Farmers Association from co.Cork is very grateful for your support:D

    And now, seriously only some of the Carrots and Sprout were Irish. Most were from France (Carrots) and Holland (Sprout). Potatoes are Irish i guess.


  • #55
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Days 298


    WilyCoyote wrote: »
    Quiet there! Farmers are ordinary men .......... just doing an extra-ordinary job ........ cashing grant cheques, whinging about the EEU common policy, Tesco, Weather, price of agricultural diesel (can only get 60 miles per gallon in family saloon) and GM Foods. AND they eat their dinner in the middle of the day.

    Yah bang on! Well done. Never heard them complain about GM food at all really but your stereotype is great so it must be right. Your generalisations deserve post of the day.

    When one part of society stands up for itself people moan, when people dont stand up for themselves people moan. Cant win.

    Learn farmers! Bend over and take a reduced standard of living and uncertain future like all the others who refuse to stand up for themselves. Then you can moan when your way of life is gone.

    Dont let me stop your moaning though...


  • #56
    mb1725
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭mb1725


    The 600 million must be gone already http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2013/september/title,71582,en.html
    I thought that would keep the IFA quiet till next year.


  • #57
    paddysdream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    mb1725 wrote: »
    The 600 million must be gone already http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2013/september/title,71582,en.html
    I thought that would keep the IFA quiet till next year.

    Some terrible uninformed sh**e being posted on here.

    Vegetables and fruit have NEVER been directly subsidised and were always ineligible for SFP.

    SFP, for those of you who actually want to learn something, is a subsidy(market support) paid to ALL european (EU) farmers ,not just the whinging Irish variety.

    Its purpose was (is) to compensate european farmers for producing food at below the real cost of production.

    Dont want to get into a general discussion re. farming but can tell you that the price of grain this year is the same in actual terms as that which was got in 1983 ;yes 30 years ago.No adjusting for inflation etc etc .Was about 120 in pounds in 1983 and 155 euro this year.

    There was no fortune in it that time and as input costs and the actual cost of living has risen quiet a bit since then you can imagine that even with increased yields etc it aint a money spinner.

    Who on here would be willing to work for the same wage as they would have got in 1983?

    Dont forget farmers have mortgages and all the other bills everyone else has.

    Yes I will admit that those of us lucky enough to inherit a farm have an asset of major value(average farm about 500k)but the actual income after tax is nothing exciting
    Yes, we do pay tax like all self employed people and the chances of hiding income are non existent as on the vast majority of farms direct supports account for anything from 60% to 125% of the income


  • #58
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    paddysdream wrote: »
    Some terrible uninformed sh**e being posted on here.

    Vegetables and fruit have NEVER been directly subsidised and were always ineligible for SFP.

    SFP, for those of you who actually want to learn something, is a subsidy(market support) paid to ALL european (EU) farmers ,not just the whinging Irish variety.

    Its purpose was (is) to compensate european farmers for producing food at below the real cost of production.

    Dont want to get into a general discussion re. farming but can tell you that the price of grain this year is the same in actual terms as that which was got in 1983 ;yes 30 years ago.No adjusting for inflation etc etc .Was about 120 in pounds in 1983 and 155 euro this year.

    There was no fortune in it that time and as input costs and the actual cost of living has risen quiet a bit since then you can imagine that even with increased yields etc it aint a money spinner.

    Who on here would be willing to work for the same wage as they would have got in 1983?

    Dont forget farmers have mortgages and all the other bills everyone else has.

    Yes I will admit that those of us lucky enough to inherit a farm have an asset of major value(average farm about 500k)but the actual income after tax is nothing exciting
    Yes, we do pay tax like all self employed people and the chances of hiding income are non existent as on the vast majority of farms direct supports account for anything from 60% to 125% of the income

    Grain is a staple commodity ... It's affected by the large producers so for example Canada/china/Usa/Russia has a bumper crop and floods the market guess what the price goes down. Beef prices are going down and their complaining about that as well even though the price went up artificially here as larger demand for it in the UK. And your grain price was way off €210 to €212/t atm


  • #59
    paddysdream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Grain is a staple commodity ... It's affected by the large producers so for example Canada/china/Usa/Russia has a bumper crop and floods the market guess what the price goes down. Beef prices are going down and their complaining about that as well even though the price went up artificially here as larger demand for it in the UK. And your grain price was way off €210 to €212/t atm

    My grain price is way off? How?
    Find me a grain merchant who was paying 200 euro plus for grain off the combine last August.The price you quote is what grain is trading for at the moment.Look outside ,doesnt look a great day to cut corn here anyways.Price now would obiviously be higher to account for drying ,storage and handling costs.

    The prices I quoted are green grain prices at harvest time.This is the way 90% plus of Irish grain is sold.

    Our cattle prices lag way behind the UK.


  • #60
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    paddysdream wrote: »
    My grain price is way off? How?
    Find me a grain merchant who was paying 200 euro plus for grain off the combine last August.The price you quote is what grain is trading for at the moment.Look outside ,doesnt look a great day to cut corn here anyways.Price now would obiviously be higher to account for drying ,storage and handling costs.

    The prices I quoted are green grain prices at harvest time.This is the way 90% plus of Irish grain is sold.

    Our cattle prices lag way behind the UK.

    GBP is quite strong atm and because there price is higher our price should be the same why ? And i fail to see what winter has to do with harvesting grain ?
    Irish dried wheat prices recovered a little in recent days and are trading from €210 to €212/t, up from €208/t to €211/t last week. Wheat on a run to March is up €1/t, trading from €212/t to €213/t. Spot barley prices also recovered up by €2/t, trading from €177/t to €182/t and from €178/t to €182/t on a run to March. Maize prices are steady with spot at €200/t and late February / March prices down €1/t at €185/t. New crop 2014 harvest dried wheat prices moved lower; trading from €190/t to €192/t compared to €196/t to €197/t last week. Harvest 2014 dried feed barley prices are also easier down €3/t on last week to €177/t.


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  • #61
    The_Pretender
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 594 ✭✭✭The_Pretender


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    GBP is quite strong atm and because there price is higher our price should be the same why ? And i fail to see what winter has to do with harvesting grain ?

    He is talking about the price that farmers get for there grain. Once harvested in July and August, the grain has to be dried down to a suitable moisture level, which is what the wholesalers who farmers sell their grain to do. The vast majority of farmers are not equipped to dry their own grain so they need to sell straight away. Then wholesalers dry the grain which costs money to do. All of your quotes specify dried grain. Not grain that has just been harvested. Easy mistake to make :)


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