Fair play to Peter Hitchens

It's almost impossible to believe that he and Christopher Hitchens are brothers.

He had the same debate with Russel Brand last month on Newsnight.



Opr

Mammanabammana wrote: »

I was preparing a serious reply to some of your points until I read this. Now I'm glad I didn't bother. Obvious troll is obvious.

Im not a troll Im just giving you original thought which you will of course not get on the bbc anymore

Nodin wrote: »

"no it doesn't the statistics show the over liberal ends up with more criminals more repeat criminals and more drugs abuse"

You've a source for the above?

Ive supplied loads of sources above. why don't you do some homework yourself

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html


The study found that England and Wales ranked highly in a survey of crime rates among more than 30 developed counries, based on the frequency of crimes recorded by police for every 100,000 people.


For burglaries and robberies England and Wales had more crimes per 100,000 people than the USA.


England and Wales was ranked sixth for burglaries – worse than Sweden, Slovenia, the Czech Republic, Turkey, Italy and Chile - and for robberies, England and Wales was seventh.


For rapes, England and Wales was ranked ninth, worse than the likes of Norway, Poland, Sweden, Australia and Germany, while for car thefts, England and Wales was eighth – worse than Slovenia, Chile, Mexico, Greece and the Czech Republic.


The figures, from the UN Office on Drugs and Crime, draw together crimes recorded by police in the countries studied and is published every six years.

They date from 2006 because of difficulties in obtaining accurate comparable figures.

Civitas said, where possible, it had cross-checked with more recent pan-European figures, and the rates were broadly the same.

Among two other measures, England and Wales fared better, being ranked 16th out of 35 countries for “intentional homicides” and 19th for major assaults.

David Green, Civitas’s director, said: “England and Wales are high-crime societies compared with other developed nations. We have a lot of crime compared with other similar countries.

“Random checks of later figures for individual nations show that the ranking has not changed significantly. "

Mr Green said further analysis had shown that England and Wales had a low “punitivity ratio” compared with other countries because shorter sentences were being handed down by judges.

The ratio is calculated by contrasting the number of people convicted in a year per 100,000 population with the number of prisoners in jail as a result of a court sentence per 100,000 population.

In a speech in June, Mr Clarke had said that the debate on criminal justice had to move on from the “numbers game” of measuring the effectiveness of policies solely according to the prison population.

But Mr Green said: “Mr Clarke said he thought our system was too punitive, but the report also allows us to test the theory that our system is especially severe.

"The score for England and Wales, contrary to the claims of Kenneth Clarke, is low. The claim that our criminal-justice policies are punitive is not, therefore, supported by the best available evidence.”

A Home Office spokesman said last night: "This data is now more than four years old, but highlights that we have a high level of crime compared to other countries.

"This backs up the perceptions of many communities who have real concerns about stubbornly high level of serious crimes.

mikom wrote: »

The stats do not compare like with like as Nodin pointed out.
You made a similar mistake when you said "there is more crime per head here than in the usa"..................... "here" is not the UK............. ya know boards.ie and all that, Paddy.


I am still waiting on the higher drug related crime stats...........

YES THAT WAS A MISTAKE SORRY ABOUT THAT I MEANT UK NOT IRELAND

Drumpot wrote: »

One of the stupidest statements to make about an alcoholic or drug addict is to suggest that any criminal sentence will be a deterrant to their erratic behaviour.

Anybody who thinks a prison sentence will make an addict be more responsible really shouldn't be discussing this topic, let alone being allowed to go on tv and discuss it, because they really haven't a clue.

I also found a lot of his views were simply based on his own prejudices. While he kept asking for specific evidence to prove that addiction is nothing more then willpower, he had only his uninformed opinion to back up his view.

Its a conversation that gets lost in the argument of people wanting justice at the expense of looking at prevention. Throwing a drug addict into jail is not likely to rehabilitate them, in turn there is a greater likelihood that they will commit further crimes. In most cases it wont act as a deterrant.

You can argue that addiction is about choices and willpower, but that's presuming that we are all born with the same wiring. But of course there are people more predisposed to depression, cancer, psychological problems. Some people are good at maths , but useless at other topics. So why is it that hard to understand that there are some people more vulernerable to addictive habits that they struggle to control?

I was also disappointed that Perry didn't ask the hitchens about his understanding of a dry drunk. How alcoholics who give up drink can be even more erratic and destructive after giving up drink.

the first priority if the safety of the public , get the drug takers and pushers off the streets...then treat them behind closed doors...no doubt drug rehabilitation could take place in the prisons....clearly letting drug takers walk the streets especially those who go to crime to pay for their addiction, is dangerous and has failed as a policy. the repeat offending rate is off the scale, the drug problems is 300 times worse now in the UK than the USA thanks to this mindless liberal ill thought through policy