Bitcoin - ###Mod Note in 1st Post - Please Read###

Freddie Dodge · 11-12-2013 02:05AM

Back up over $1000 just this minute after a few days of recovering from the whole Baidu-provoked drop. Me mucho happies

IvaBigWun · 11-12-2013 02:08AM

I have $982 on https://www.bitstamp.net/

This currency is cray!

xploderz · 18-12-2013 01:21PM

Down to $500 today after china bans deposits

nxbyveromdwjpg · 18-12-2013 01:22PM

This is the time to buy

xploderz · 18-12-2013 01:26PM

nm wrote: »

This is the time to buy

why?

o1s1n · 18-12-2013 01:27PM

nm wrote: »

This is the time to buy

Unless of course it continues to crash..?

thunderdog · 18-12-2013 01:29PM

The tough thing with buying and selling bitcoins is that most of the movement happens at night time (for Ireland) with America and particularly China doing a lot of the buying and selling. it can be hard to catch the big rises and falls sometimes

Setun · 18-12-2013 01:39PM

Bitcoin is done for, perfect opportunity to invest in Dogecoin though. Such random. Very scrypt. Many coin. Much profit.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.0

Clandestine · 18-12-2013 01:45PM

I knew this was going to happen. This was a clear cut case of a bubble, it'll go back up again in value slowly, but diminish again in no time. I've heard stories of people taking out house loans to buy bitcoins and putting their savings into them too, that's what happens when you don't do your research.

......"funeral services now accepting bitcoins"

sReq | uTeK · 18-12-2013 01:50PM

nm wrote: »

This is the time to buy

It will be down to under 200 by tomorrow, when china the leading financial player bans something it has a knock on effect.

xploderz · 18-12-2013 01:51PM

Setun wrote: »

Bitcoin is done for, perfect opportunity to invest in Dogecoin though. Such random. Very scrypt. Many coin. Much profit.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.0

lol

DJTNyvQ9fw87PxaJ1BxNLLyAfqfaasxcvA
coin want

so crypto
such wow

but..
much poor
many rich

Jonny7 · 18-12-2013 01:59PM

Once the bubble has burst it should stabilise and then start to climb again slowly but probably over period of months (going on past)

Again this is just based on the past - it's a very new type of product, and as such the future is quite unpredictable - however if you bought at 1K then hold onto it, don't be tempted to sell

If something happens, e.g. Paypal accepts - then it could easily skyrocket again - very sensitive to any news

AtomicHorror · 18-12-2013 03:50PM

Jonny7 wrote: »

Once the bubble has burst it should stabilise and then start to climb again slowly but probably over period of months (going on past)

Again this is just based on the past - it's a very new type of product, and as such the future is quite unpredictable - however if you bought at 1K then hold onto it, don't be tempted to sell

If something happens, e.g. Paypal accepts - then it could easily skyrocket again - very sensitive to any news

Which makes it less of a bubble pop and more of a reaction to changes in utility. The overall uptake of BTC is so low in the grand scheme of things that news of the like we saw with Baidu, Chinese regulators etc. (or the imaginary PayPal news) were always going to have huge impact.

Not a bubble. A rapid increase in the actual base value. One that could very easily be repeated so long as there are very few big players in BTC. Get 100 large companies dealing in BTC and the capacity of any one of them to cause a crash will drastically reduced. Until then, we can expect more of the same, and more people calling bubble when that's not really what it is.

xploderz · 18-12-2013 04:07PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Which makes it less of a bubble pop and more of a reaction to changes in utility. The overall uptake of BTC is so low in the grand scheme of things that news of the like we saw with Baidu, Chinese regulators etc. (or the imaginary PayPal news) were always going to have huge impact.

Not a bubble. A rapid increase in the actual base value. One that could very easily be repeated so long as there are very few big players in BTC. Get 100 large companies dealing in BTC and the capacity of any one of them to cause a crash will drastically reduced. Until then, we can expect more of the same, and more people calling bubble when that's not really what it is.

I don't see it as any different to major financial institutions cutting off lines of credit and causing the property bubble to crash, what's your definition of a bubble?

AtomicHorror · 18-12-2013 04:56PM

xploderz wrote: »

I don't see it as any different to major financial institutions cutting off lines of credit and causing the property bubble to crash, what's your definition of a bubble?

Ok, caveat- I don't know much about bubbles or economics in general, but here's how I see it.

A bubble is an increase in price out of line with base value, and maybe we can argue over what base value means and how it relates to intrinsic value.

With BTC, the dollar value increased in response to improvements in the utility of BTC as a currency. Then when that utility decreased (first utility as a general currency with Baidu's withdrawal and then utility as a tax-free investment with regulations/posturing in China, Denmark and Norway), the dollar value dropped in response. To me, this says that the increases and decreases, large and sudden as they were, are mostly related to the utility of BTC, which is part of its base value.

The houses that many of my friends bought between 2004 and 2007 were no more useful as shelter at the peak of the market, and no less useful when the market tanked. Their locations were little more or less attractive throughout either. The materials in those houses doubtlessly varied in value over time, but I don't think they collectively surged and crashed. So the price of houses changed over time out of line with their base value by most of the criteria that I can think of. That to me is a bubble.

Maybe my understanding is off- but even if it isn't I still think there's a pretty clear distinction between the causes underlying the BTC and housing scenarios.

Jester252 · 18-12-2013 05:22PM

Wow Bitcoin took a hammer last night in more ways than one.

AtomicHorror · 18-12-2013 08:04PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Wow Bitcoin took a hammer last night in more ways than one.

I've read this a few times now and I don't get it. Help?

Jester252 · 18-12-2013 09:17PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I've read this a few times now and I don't get it. Help?

Not only did it lose a ton of value, these fluctuation really don't help its attempt to be a currency.

19-12-2013 01:19AM

Is anyone on here actually buying something with their BTC? Isn't that the purpose of them, an online currency to pay for goods and services?

I know absolutely nothing about trading, but I know how to shop! I can weigh up the pros n cons of travelling north of the border to buy my groceries and exchanging euros to Sterling but these crazy BTC increases/decreases are of no use to the normal "shopper". Perhaps they were never meant to.

I'm really confused.

srsly78 · 19-12-2013 01:32AM

People were buying lots of "stuff", but then the feds ruined everything.

QuadLeo · 19-12-2013 01:36AM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Is anyone on here actually buying something with their BTC? Isn't that the purpose of them, an online currency to pay for goods and services?

I know absolutely nothing about trading, but I know how to shop! I can weigh up the pros n cons of travelling north of the border to buy my groceries and exchanging euros to Sterling but these crazy BTC increases/decreases are of no use to the normal "shopper". Perhaps they were never meant to.

I'm really confused.

A colleague was telling me how he used bitcoin a lot when travelling over the summer. He was in US and Canada and bought tons of gift vouchers online with bitcoin. Vouchers for high street shops, hotel chains, supermarkets etc… He also used them to convert to cash$ somewhere along his travels, no exchange fees/conversion rate. Makes sense as it meant he was never carrying that much cash and could access vouchers online for whatever retailer/hotel was in the area. I know a credit card does the same thing but that stuff can be very expensive using abroad. Plus credit cards can be easily stolen or skimmed or whatever. I think it's pretty smart actually. Will do the same myself if I ever travel in US.

19-12-2013 01:38AM

But surely it would be cheaper to buy your Class A's on the street right now?

But with all the crazy increases in buying BTC, is it really beneficial? Are those goods, at the moment, cheapest when you pay in dollars, euros or BTC?

xploderz · 19-12-2013 01:44AM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

But surely it would be cheaper to buy your Class A's on the street right now?

I'm not really following this but fairly sure silk road has been replaced by something else already? If not it's only a matter of time.

QuadLeo · 19-12-2013 01:52AM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Are those goods, at the moment, cheapest when you pay in dollars, euros or BTC?

I'm not an expert but afaik the price for a given item, say a $100 gift voucher, will be the same price in $ £ € or BTC. The price will be set in dollars and the €, £ and BTC price will be calculated at the given exchange rate at the time. So you only lose out really if bitcoins go down in value between the time you acquired the bitcoins and the time you spend them. But I don't think that was the case here. If they were less volatile I could really see a purpose for them.

KyussBishop · 19-12-2013 02:07AM

Setun wrote: »

Bitcoin is done for, perfect opportunity to invest in Dogecoin though. Such random. Very scrypt. Many coin. Much profit.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.0

I like this doge graph here:
http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/dogegraphh.jpg

From: http://www.geek.com/apps/the-best-invention-on-the-internet-dogecoin-a-more-viable-alternative-to-bitcoin-1579442/
Original: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Stages_of_a_bubble.png

xploderz · 19-12-2013 02:10AM

KyussBishop wrote: »

I like this doge graph here:
http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/dogegraphh.jpg (original)

Really does show up the whole system for what it is, a joke.

I mean all cryptocurrencies at the moment.

KyussBishop · 19-12-2013 02:16AM

xploderz wrote: »

Really does show up the whole system for what it is, a joke.

I mean all cryptocurrencies at the moment.

Ya - they are potentially useful, but after this I don't see how they can avoid speculative bubbles, without heavy regulation and some kind of centralized authority - and future bubbles like this, will just trigger more countries to crackdown like China just did, further reducing the relevance of cryptocurrencies that experience this.

19-12-2013 04:02AM

What I mean is (and it's been a while so my values may no longer be realistic ;-)).......

A gram of coke costs â‚¬50 on the street. If I wanted to buy it online, I'm assuming it has a fixed BTC value too. If I wanted to buy it in London or New York, they have their fixed costs also.

The currency exchange between euros, dollars and Sterling do not fluctuate to the same extremes as the online currency and I would have a good idea if the product I was purchasing was reasonably priced. Because of the erratic jumps in the online currency, my purchase of coke at let's say, 0.25 bitcoins could work out at the equivalent of 30 euros when I choose my purchase but jump to the equivalent of 300 euros by the time I click "place order"

Now imagine if tesco uses it. Could end up with some seriously expensive milk!

Am I making sense?

hatrickpatrick · 19-12-2013 04:04AM

Re the mod note in the OP, are there really people out there who are pathetic enough to sue Boards for taking bad advice from Boardsies?
The site absolutely shouldn't be liable. Would I be liable for the behaviour of my tennants if I was a landlord?

hatrickpatrick · 19-12-2013 04:08AM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

What I mean is (and it's been a while so my values may no longer be realistic ;-)).......

A gram of coke costs â‚¬50 on the street. If I wanted to buy it online, I'm assuming it has a fixed BTC value too. If I wanted to buy it in London or New York, they have their fixed costs also.

The currency exchange between euros, dollars and Sterling do not fluctuate to the same extremes as the online currency and I would have a good idea if the product I was purchasing was reasonably priced. Because of the erratic jumps in the online currency, my purchase of coke at let's say, 0.25 bitcoins could work out at the equivalent of 30 euros when I choose my purchase but jump to the equivalent of 300 euros by the time I click "place order"

Now imagine if tesco uses it. Could end up with some seriously expensive milk!

Am I making sense?

I'd imagine they'd just use the euro price as a base and charge you whatever the current exchange rate was when you paid with bitcoins.

I support bitcoin for many reasons but above all because it's interest free and it's not debt based. When a new euro is created, debt is created with it which is worth more than the euro because of interest, leading to a perpetual cycle of more loans to pay off more interest. Bitcoin does not have this problem and therefore doesn't punish people who choose to save it.

Bitcoin - ###Mod Note in 1st Post - Please Read###

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