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Publicans and 12 pubs of Christmas

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    You're in Edinburgh right? Which Morrisons is that? Might shave my beard and go get a few cans.

    The ever so slightly chavy one on Ferry Road. They were sent on a re-training program the very next week, even though the manager stated "they had just completed a training program and British passports are the only ones they could take".

    If you buy a six pack of tennants they insist on you being under 18!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    Spoilsports or not?

    OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR NY Times
    Bring Drunken Santas Under Control
    By JASON O. GILBERT
    Published: December 12, 2013


    ON Saturday, a festive, besotted mob of 20- and 30-somethings, decked out in various measures of Santa Claus dress and undress, will descend on the bars of lower New York City and rain down Christmas cheer like spoiled eggnog.

    This obnoxious event is SantaCon. For those living in peaceful oblivion, SantaCon is an annual tradition in which revelers dress up as Kriss Kringle (or, at least, put on a Santa hat) and participate en masse in an often literal bar crawl, cramming 12 nights of Christmas boozing into a single afternoon.

    Though its exact origins are somewhat murky, SantaCon as we know it probably first occurred in 1994, when members of a prank-happy urban adventure club stormed the streets of San Francisco in Santa outfits as a subversive expression of anti-commercialism and protest theater. Since then, the Saint Nick takeover has shed its dissident roots and expanded into a more traditional booze-athon, with SantaCon events taking place in more than 300 cities in 44 countries.

    The largest is in New York City. Though the tradition may have started as a counterculture act, participating in the Big Apple’s version of SantaCon is about as anti-establishment as a trip to Disney World.

    The Santas — and if you need to imagine a typical participant, just think of Billy Bob Thornton in “Bad Santa,” if the character were 24 and worked at Bain Capital — generally arrive via bridge, tunnel, subway and, perhaps this year, CitiBike. In the past, they have convened in Midtown and marched down to the East Village, where the majority of the day’s jubilations typically occur; those who were still conscious then took the train to terrorize Brooklyn. Chronologically, SantaCon lasts from about 10 a.m. until whatever time the last Santa passes out on a park bench somewhere.

    Indeed, SantaCons of years past have been distinguished by sexism, drunkenness, xenophobia, homophobia and enough incidents of public vomiting and urination to fill an infinite dunk tank. Despite these rampant violations, the departing police commissioner, Raymond W. Kelly, recently praised SantaCon, claiming that it “makes New York New York.”

    Perhaps most distressing about SantaCon is its size and the way that it shuts down and befouls dozens of blocks. Any East Villager (I am one) can tell you that the event makes doing absolutely anything beyond one’s front stoop an impossibility, unless you own swamp waders and a riot shield. Last year, an estimated 30,000 carousers participated in the festivities.

    But really, it’s not the disruption or the noise that rankles. New Yorkers can endure street closures and inconveniences for any number of events so long as there is a beneficent impulse, or an obvious reason for the disruption. For a New York City event of its size, however, SantaCon is distinctive, and arguably impressive, in that it contributes absolutely zero value — cultural, artistic, aesthetic, diversionary, culinary or political — to its host neighborhood. Quite simply, SantaCon is a parasite.

    SantaCon apologists point to its sizable charitable donations (a $10 donation to charity is required to “officially” participate), and the sugar rush of money injected to local business (especially alcohol business) owners. But the ends don’t always justify the means; and when the means include a neighborhood of kids having to watch simulacra of beloved childhood figures stumbling around, picking fights with passers-by — well, the ends aren’t justified. Charity is not a quid pro quo proposition.

    In November, a New York police lieutenant, John Cocchi, wrote an open letter urging his district’s bar owners not to serve obviously inebriated Santas, and it appears that the melee will skip Midtown this year. More recently, The Daily News reported that SantaCon’s organizers would work more closely with the Police Department, providing detailed information about the traditionally secret bar crawl route, and stationing 80 “helper elves” along the route to ensure that things don’t get out of hand.

    That’s a good start, but it seems a bit like closing the stable door after the reindeer have bolted. It’s unlikely that some well-intentioned volunteers will be able to control a meaningful fraction of the boozed-up mob. Meanwhile, history has proved that SantaCon Santas are incapable of self-governing: Years of lax regulation have emboldened them to spill their base instincts on the streets, without consequence.

    What seems required, then, is a Police Department approach that is less Ray Kelly and more John Cocchi: one that recognizes SantaCon as disruptive, rather than benign. If our police force can actively prevent the abhorrent behavior that residents have become accustomed to — either by more aggressive ticketing, or just through an increased presence that discourages misdemeanor crime — SantaCon should be allowed to proceed as the charitable, cheerful, harmless festival that event press officers paint it as.

    Otherwise, perhaps New York should banish the Santas to the North Pole.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭mud


    They are very much a fad.

    Me and my mates have had a Christmas Jumper Night since 1996! Night after Stephen's, prizes for the ugliest :p

    Pretty long fad, although I must admit, more people seem to be wearing them lately.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭April O Neill II


    mud wrote: »
    Me and my mates have had a Christmas Jumper Night since 1996! Night after Stephen's, prizes for the ugliest :p

    Pretty long fad, although I must admit, more people seem to be wearing them lately.

    One or two people wearing them in 1996 wasn't a fad. Everyone and their antelope wearing one these days is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭mud


    One or two people wearing them in 1996 wasn't a fad. Everyone and their antelope wearing one these days is.


    Whatever you say.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭Sala


    We got refused on camden street at 5pm on Monday. Pub number 3, totally empty and no one was drunk. I understand refusing people who are, but they only knew it was the 12 pubs as we had Christmas jumpers on and were in a large group. Seems ridiculous to refuse sober people who will spend around 100 quid and leave in half an hour.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭SparkySpitfire


    One or two people wearing them in 1996 wasn't a fad. Everyone and their antelope wearing one these days is.

    I've had one every year knitted by my mum since I can remember.

    So how about you tone down that condescending attitude and realise that perhaps you and your immediate social circle were not wearing Christmas jumpers before their surge in popularity in the last few years, but other people were.

    Certainly more than "one or two people in 1996", they're not a modern phenomenon get a grip. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 976 ✭✭✭Kev_2012


    Are ye actually serious about wanting to ban it? It's once a year and it's a bit of craic. Publicans that complain about it are fools. They complain constantly about people drinking at home due to cheap booze and that but when when people on an annual thing waltz in then they don't want their business.

    I don't know about ye but I'd drink more than 12 pints on a night out assuming I was out at around 7/8 or out for a match first.

    I like going on the 12 pubs, it's a bit of craic with the rules and that, most of your friends end up on it and it's something different. Are you trying to tell me that this is bad but it's ok for people to get absolutely wrecked drunk in front of their work colleagues and act the prick just because they are in once place?

    Do me a favour :rolleyes:

    Can't wait for mine next week BTW :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 sscruff2007


    This particular pub was turning us away tuesday until we said it was our second pub. Grant you some people were asked to move away from a certain seat at the bar so a regular could sit down. Needless to say we didnt stay there too long


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,320 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    This particular pub was turning us away tuesday until we said it was our second pub. Grant you some people were asked to move away from a certain seat at the bar so a regular could sit down. Needless to say we didnt stay there too long

    `

    That's generally what's meant to happen on the 12 pubs.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭April O Neill II


    mud wrote: »
    Whatever you say.

    :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭April O Neill II


    So how about you tone down that condescending attitude

    No thanks. :) People being so very precious about their Christmas-jumper wearing is way too much fun.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭April O Neill II


    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    I like going on the 12 pubs, it's a bit of craic with the rules and that, most of your friends end up on it and it's something different. Are you trying to tell me that this is bad but it's ok for people to get absolutely wrecked drunk in front of their work colleagues and act the prick just because they are in once place?

    It's not "something different" at all, it's bogstandard. And 12 pubs groups tend to be far louder and more obnoxious than people staying in the one place or maybe two places for the night.

    I left a pub last night because the 12 pubs were so unbearable, and I've never left a pub because of a few drunk people before. The pub was on the trail and there was a lot of them in, and they were obnoxious.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭BNMC


    It's not "something different" at all, it's bogstandard. And 12 pubs groups tend to be far louder and more obnoxious than people staying in the one place or maybe two places for the night.

    I left a pub last night because the 12 pubs were so unbearable, and I've never left a pub because of a few drunk people before. The pub was on the trail and there was a lot of them in, and they were obnoxious.
    Of course it's something different, what other time of the year do people do the 12 pubs? Maybe you should have stayed at home then if you're that easily upset.

    I think you just like to complain for the sake of it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭SparkySpitfire


    No thanks. :) People being so very precious about their Christmas-jumper wearing is way too much fun.

    Well, as long as you don't make an effort to hide the snide condescension. It's so much better when it's out in the open for people to see :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭April O Neill II


    BNMC wrote: »
    Of course it's something different, what other time of the year do people do the 12 pubs? Maybe you should have stayed at home then if you're that easily upset.

    I think you just like to complain for the sake of it.

    Meh, if that's you'd like to believe, go right ahead. :)

    Of course it's only at this time of year, the clue is in the name. But they are banal at this stage, and very commonplace.

    But, OMG, the bants!!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭April O Neill II


    Well, as long as you don't make an effort to hide the snide condescension. It's so much better when it's out in the open for people to see :)

    Which was why I was being so overt about it. Yay!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,827 ✭✭✭fussyonion


    Sure I had 10 pints of lager one night and I was grand. Was able to navigate my way to the Dart to get home and everything.

    And I'm a GIRL!

    This 12 pubs lark is a piece of cake!

    Yes that's probably a bit anti-feminist but who cares; I drank grown men under the table and it's always going to be my claim to fame, so ner!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭April O Neill II


    fussyonion wrote: »
    Sure I had 10 pints of lager one night and I was grand. Was able to navigate my way to the Dart to get home and everything.

    And I'm a GIRL!

    This 12 pubs lark is a piece of cake!

    Yes that's probably a bit anti-feminist but who cares; I drank grown men under the table and it's always going to be my claim to fame, so ner!

    Why would it be anti-feminist?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,827 ✭✭✭fussyonion


    Why would it be anti-feminist?

    Oh let's not analyse it! Probably 'cos of the "I'm a girl" comment.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭mud


    :pac:

    *cups hands around mouth* NICE COMEBACK!
    No thanks. :) People being so very precious about their Christmas-jumper wearing is way too much fun.

    There is no-one being precious as you say. Just saying that Christmas jumpers ain't no thang so maybe get over it and live and let wear jumpers :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭April O Neill II


    mud wrote: »
    *cups hands around mouth* NICE COMEBACK!

    You replied, so it must have been. ;) But hey, no comeback can beat "Whatever you say" - that's in the pantheon of witty, urbane ripostes. How could I ever compete?

    I think one would need to be a bit unobservant not to see how prevalent the ironic Xmas jumper thing has become.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭podgemonster


    I invited the lads from home up to Dublin for the 12 pubs at the end of the previous summer.
    Started at 1 with a Lunch and a pint in Ballsbridge and slowly made our way up, casually watching the premiership en route. No rules, took our time and even had an extra pint in the Waterloo as twas raining. Stopped in Burger King and again on Grafton street for a McD's.

    Finished in Whelans around 12 Great day out, pubs delighted to have us!

    Think the baggot street Xmas 12 pubs has unfortunately become the done thing now. Wouldnt appeal to me as we'd just be a number of groups and wouldn't wish to be associated with them or be constantly hassled by bouncers and cramming ourselves into already packed pubs for the whole night.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭SparkySpitfire


    You replied, so it must have been. ;) But hey, no comeback can beat "Whatever you say" - that's in the pantheon of witty, urbane ripostes. How could I ever compete?

    I think one would need to be a bit unobservant not to see how prevalent the ironic Xmas jumper thing has become.

    Oooh burrrrrrrn, you're so cool, keep them coming April, I need entertainment! :)

    Did you just purposely miss the part where we both acknowledged the surge in popularity in recent years on top of their previous circulation... or were you just being a bit unobservant? ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭April O Neill II


    Oooh burrrrrrrn, you're so cool, keep them coming April, I need entertainment! :)

    Did you just purposely miss the part where we both acknowledged the surge in popularity in recent years on top of their previous circulation... or were you just being a bit unobservant? ;)

    Oh no, I observed, I was just very confused as to why that doesn't seem to constitute a fad in your minds? Strange.

    I mean, obviously, some people always wore them, but it would have been a tiny minority, and they would have been considered a bit cringe-worthy. Then a couple of years or so ago, there was a tipping point where ironic Xmas jumper wearing was deemed cool. It takes a few years after that for something to become truly mainstream, and that point was probably last year, with it continuing this year. They are banal at this stage. And, yeah, some of us of sick of the sight of them. Especially when worn by seriously annoying 12 pubs groups. (which is pretty much ALL 12 pubs groups, no matter what the participants think)

    A small amount of people always wearing them doesn't mean the current popularity isn't a fad. If you can't see that, then I can't help you.

    It is amusing though to see how clearly upset you seem to be at the notion that some people find the Xmas jumper thing boring, and 12 groups very annoying. People in liking different things to you shocka!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭SparkySpitfire


    Oh no, I observed, I was just very confused as to why that doesn't seem to constitute a fad in your minds? Strange.

    I mean, obviously, some people always wore them, but it would have been a tiny minority, and they would have been considered a bit cringe-worthy. Then a couple of years or so ago, there was a tipping point where ironic Xmas jumper wearing was deemed cool. It takes a few years after that for something to become truly mainstream, and that point was probably last year, with it continuing this year. They are banal at this stage. And, yeah, some of us of sick of the sight of them. Especially when worn by seriously annoying 12 pubs groups. (which is pretty much ALL 12 pubs groups, no matter what the participants think)

    A small amount of people always wearing them doesn't mean the current popularity isn't a fad. If you can't see that, then I can't help you.

    It is amusing though to see how clearly upset you seem to be at the notion that some people find the Xmas jumper thing boring, and 12 groups very annoying. People in liking different things to you shocka!

    A tiny minority... I see... could I take a look at that statistical analysis? :) Nobody's claiming they're not at their peak now, but more than "one or two people in 1996" were wearing them and if you can't see that, I can't help you.

    If they're banal, why do they annoy you? And yes, I would agree that when they started becoming popular again it was because people like Tubs would wear them to show off, and now that high street shops are stocking them, there's no real novelty anymore, a lot of them are just normal jumpers with a penguin or snowflake design in a muted blue.

    I do fail to see how something that's been around for years is a fad. Like people wore leggings in the 80s...they're back now as a wardrobe staple again. After a time, things stop being fads and just become "banal" as you put it.

    No what's really funny is how you're trying so hard to be witty. First your argument was that they're stupid and annoying, now you claim they're boring. In fact, the fact that they weren't boring enough and stood out to annoy you and another poster was the reason this whole thing started. I've said all along that I don't care how other people perceive me for wearing them, so clearly I've no issue with people disliking them, I just think it's silly to get butthurt over what someone else wears. Not like people are sporting KKK hoods. Save the butthurt for things that are actually offensive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭April O Neill II


    A tiny minority... I see... could I take a look at that statistical analysis? :) Nobody's claiming they're not at their peak now, but more than "one or two people in 1996" were wearing them and if you can't see that, I can't help you.

    :pac: Now, let's not be facetious.
    If they're banal, why do they annoy you?

    I said, I found them boring, I said the 12 pubs parties were often annoying. Two separate thoughts. Go back and read my post.
    I do fail to see how something that's been around for years is a fad.

    OK then. No point in further discussing that.
    No what's really funny is how you're trying so hard to be witty.

    Not really, I'm just being myself, however it comes across. If it come witty, fine, if it doesn't, also fine. I'm certainly not trying to be anything.

    Look, wear what you want, do what you want. Why does it matter anyway what people think? Some people will roll their eyes at your jumper, not much you can do about it. If you're in a 12 pubs contingent you'll unavoidably set some people's teeth on edge. Not much you can do there either. So you may as well just do it anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭ibarelycare


    The arguing in this thread is embarrassing.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    Super-Rush wrote: »
    If a group comes into his pub at say 9pm how is he going to know they are on the 12 pubs?

    Is he going to stop all groups coming into his pub?

    He'd only know if they leave after the one drink.

    Will they have to piss the drink back into their glasses?

    have you not seen people on the 12 pubs crawl or what? a deaf dumb and blind person would spot them a mile off!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭April O Neill II


    The arguing in this thread is embarrassing.

    My childish side couldn't resist.


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