Garda Recruitment- The Waiting to Apply Room

carzony · 14-12-2013 12:32AM

well I have sent them an email telling them a level 5 cert is a level 5 cert so lets see what they say.. I have also told them that they are falsey advertising the job if that's the case..

Scouser · 14-12-2013 12:33AM

carzony wrote: »

well I have sent them an email telling them a level 5 cert is a level 5 cert so lets see what they say.. I have also told them that they are falsey advertising the job if that's the case..

did they reply to that?

want2b · 14-12-2013 12:33AM

carzony wrote: »

well I have sent them an email telling them a level 5 cert is a level 5 cert so lets see what they say.. I have also told them that they are falsey advertising the job if that's the case..

How do you mean they are falsely advertising the job

Mark37 · 14-12-2013 12:34AM

Let us all know when they reply!!! You do right I think

carzony · 14-12-2013 12:35AM

want2b wrote: »

How do you mean they are falsely advertising the job

LCA is a level 5, they are looking for level 5.. how can it not be accepted?

my reply

Thanks for the quick reply.

A merit or distinction grade in the LCA is exactly the same as traditional leaving cert. It's essentially the same exam but in a different format? The leaving cert and the LCA is still a level 5 certificate which is the 'minimum requirement' according to the advert on public jobs.ie.

That's discrimination and false advertising....

Mark37 · 14-12-2013 12:37AM

Say you did the LCA, but you did a HND or a Degree...do they accept that instead?

carzony · 14-12-2013 12:39AM

Mark37 wrote: »

Say you did the LCA, but you did a HND or a Degree...do they accept that instead?

i think they do? still not fair for the lads in LCA.. I'v pointed it out to them so hopefully they take a bit of notice and change the requirment

want2b · 14-12-2013 12:40AM

carzony wrote: »

LCA is a level 5, they are looking for level 5.. how can it not be accepted?

my reply

Thanks for the quick reply.

A merit or distinction grade in the LCA is exactly the same as traditional leaving cert. It's essentially the same exam but in a different format? The leaving cert and the LCA is still a level 5 certificate which is the 'minimum requirement' according to the advert on public jobs.ie.

That's discrimination and false advertising....

A mate of mine was told a LCA is ok when he asked pas, As I have said before I feel its a big grey area.

carzony · 14-12-2013 12:42AM

want2b wrote: »

A mate of mine was told a LCA is ok when he asked pas, As I have said before I feel its a big grey area.

they told me it wasnt ok in another email.. that is the reply I just sent. i'll get no reply till monday but feck it. they need to make it clearer

EmmaThomas · 14-12-2013 12:44AM

I am in the same boat did the LCA and now they tell me that its not good enough but i do now hold computing degree so hoping that will help

Section_4 · 14-12-2013 12:44AM

carzony wrote: »

well I have sent them an email telling them a level 5 cert is a level 5 cert so lets see what they say.. I have also told them that they are falsey advertising the job if that's the case..

Any prospective employer is entitled to have minimum entry requirements / standards at any level they choose. They can even opt to pick a particular type of qualification and reject equivalents. It's not discrimination, it's called entry criteria.

If you want to be a doctor study medicine, if you want to work as an accountant get yourself a third level degree that accounting firms consider relevant and desirable, if you want to join the Gardaí do the leaving certificate (at a minimum.....).

There is no falsity in the advertising and bickering with PAS isn't going to accomplish anything.

msg11 · 14-12-2013 12:44AM

carzony wrote: »

That's a different story though. the lca is the leaving cert, just a different format.

I'v emailed them highlighting this point and also told them they need to change it as it discrimination...

Stupidity at it's finest. LCA is a different format of learning still should apply the same ground work for college or further education colleges. Totally undermining the program and is cutting off potentially excellent Garda. There's an awful tint attached to LCA that it's some sort of piece of piss, it's just a different format same level.

Scouser · 14-12-2013 12:49AM

msg11 wrote: »

Stupidity at it's finest. LCA is a different format of learning still should apply the same ground work for college or further education colleges. Totally undermining the program and is cutting off potentially excellent Garda. There's an awful tint attached to LCA that it's some sort of piece of piss, it's just a different format same level.

could somebody outline the difference between the two? just for clarity's sake

Section_4 · 14-12-2013 12:49AM

msg11 wrote: »

Stupidity at it's finest. LCA is a different format of learning still should apply the same ground work for college or further education colleges. Totally undermining the program and is cutting off potentially excellent Garda. There's an awful tint attached to LCA that it's some sort of piece of piss, it's just a different format same level.

Maybe they're looking for people with the competencies typically associated with the standard leaving certificate program?

Section_4 · 14-12-2013 12:54AM

Scouser wrote: »

could somebody outline the difference between the two? just for clarity's sake

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/state_examinations/leaving_certificate_applied.html

The LCA is a vocationally focused programme and does not develop students to the same academic standards and competencies as the traditional leaving certificate programme. It was created with the intention of facilitating driven, but less a academically focused individuals to attain leaving certificate. It provides an entry pathway into PLC courses.

carzony · 14-12-2013 12:55AM

msg11 wrote: »

Stupidity at it's finest. LCA is a different format of learning still should apply the same ground work for college or further education colleges. Totally undermining the program and is cutting off potentially excellent Garda. There's an awful tint attached to LCA that it's some sort of piece of piss, it's just a different format same level.

still the same exams is my point. They'll still have to confirm if it's accepted or not. They are telling everyone different things. They don't even know the difference themselves..

Section_4 · 14-12-2013 12:56AM

carzony wrote: »

still the same exams is my point. They'll still have to confirm if it's accepted or not. They are telling everyone different things. They don't even know the difference themselves..

LCA and leaving certificate students do not sit the same set of exams.

carzony · 14-12-2013 12:57AM

Section_4 wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/state_examinations/leaving_certificate_applied.html

The LCA is a vocationally focused programme and does not develop students to the same academic standards and competencies as the traditional leaving certificate programme. It was created with the intention of facilitating driven, but less a academically focused individuals to attain leaving certificate. It provides an entry pathway into PLC courses.

still should be accepted though? is it not a level 5? i have been told by several people it is considered a level 5? same as the traditional leaving cert?

Scouser · 14-12-2013 12:57AM

carzony wrote: »

still the same exams is my point. They'll still have to confirm if it's accepted or not. They are telling everyone different things. They don't even know the difference themselves..

so an LCA student would sit the exact same test papers as a standard LC student?

and are the graded the same - a1 through d3?

carzony · 14-12-2013 12:58AM

Section_4 wrote: »

LCA and leaving certificate students do not sit the same set of exams.

as far as i can remember I did.. Was a long time ago mind you..

:o

Lca is a pointless course to do then isnt it really?

Section_4 · 14-12-2013 01:03AM

Scouser wrote: »

so an LCA student would sit the exact same test papers as a standard LC student?

and are the graded the same - a1 through d3?

No. The exams are not comparable and completely different. The majority of LCA results are based on course and assignments submitted over the two year / four session period. They are graded differently and are not comparable exams. Third level institutions do not recognise LCA as an entry pathway for level 7 or 8 degrees.

Long and short of it is LCA is not to the same educational and academic standard as the traditional leaving certificate.

want2b · 14-12-2013 01:05AM

Section_4 wrote: »

No. The exams are not comparable and completely different. The majority of LCA results are based on course and assignments submitted over the two year / four session period. They are graded differently and are not comparable exams. Third level institutions do not recognise LCA as an entry pathway for level 7 or 8 degrees.

Long and short of it is LCA is not to the same educational and academic standard as the traditional leaving certificate.

Is it true that if you went to fas and did an apprenticeship that is enough that you don't even need a leaving cert?

msg11 · 14-12-2013 01:05AM

Scouser wrote: »

could somebody outline the difference between the two? just for clarity's sake

It's just a different format of learning more visual and stimulating learning. Learning by doing.

The LC would be very heavy on reading and studying rather than doing.

Both provide different bases for further learning or education, but both would be classed the same level on the FETAC scale.

It's got a bad rep the LCA course due to it been seen as easy for people that could easily do the LC. Basically someone that dose not want to apply themselves to the LC will be put on the LCA program to get them in the LC program. But at the same time there are students on LCA that need to learn that way and are just as intelligent as the LC students they just take in information differently.

Scouser · 14-12-2013 01:06AM

Section_4 wrote: »

No. The exams are not comparable and completely different. The majority of LCA results are based on course and assignments submitted over the two year / four session period. They are graded differently and are not comparable exams. Third level institutions do not recognise LCA as an entry pathway for level 7 or 8 degrees.

Long and short of it is LCA is not to the same educational and academic standard as the traditional leaving certificate.

thats perfect i fully understand

tough pill to swallow for LCA students but i have no idea why someone would feel they are being discriminated against, they are entry requirements at the end of the day

as is age, character, fitness, health etc

im quite shocked that they dont look for more advanced quals tbh

EmmaThomas · 14-12-2013 01:08AM

if you hold lca but have a degree will we have to sit extra exam for the Irish and english?

carzony · 14-12-2013 01:09AM

EmmaThomas wrote: »

if you hold lca but have a degree will we have to sit extra exam for the Irish and english?

You'll have to prove you know Irish won't you?

Section_4 · 14-12-2013 01:09AM

msg11 wrote: »

It's just a different format of learning more visual and stimulating learning. Learning by doing.

The LC would be very heavy on reading and studying rather than doing.

Both provide different bases for further learning or education, but both would be classed the same level on the FETAC scale.

It's got a bad rep the LCA course due to it been seen as easy for people that could easily do the LC. Basically someone that dose not want to apply themselves to the LC will be put on the LCA program to get them in the LC program. But at the same time there are students on LCA that need to learn that way and are just as intelligent as the LC students they just take in information differently.

I think you're confusing LCVP and LCA?

http://www.nfq.ie/nfq/en/documents/LeavingCertificate.pdf

LCVP is aimed at the less academic but equally intelligent students.

msg11 · 14-12-2013 01:11AM

Section_4 wrote: »

No. The exams are not comparable and completely different. The majority of LCA results are based on course and assignments submitted over the two year / four session period. They are graded differently and are not comparable exams. Third level institutions do not recognise LCA as an entry pathway for level 7 or 8 degrees.

Long and short of it is LCA is not to the same educational and academic standard as the traditional leaving certificate.

Third level won't let you skip to level 7 or 8 without a level 6. The LC is level 5. You could get A1's at HL in the LC and you won't get access to a level 7 course let alone a level 8

All explained here folks

http://www.nfq.ie/nfq/en/FanDiagram/nqai_nfq_08.html

msg11 · 14-12-2013 01:16AM

msg11 wrote: »

Third level won't let you skip to level 7 or 8 without a level 6. The LC is level 5. You could get A1's at HL in the LC and you won't get access to a level 7 course let alone a level 8

All explained here folks

http://www.nfq.ie/nfq/en/FanDiagram/nqai_nfq_08.html

Have to correct myself here. You actually can skip a level. Learn something new everyday !

Provided you get into a university level course.

carzony · 14-12-2013 01:23AM

EmmaThomas wrote: »

if you hold lca but have a degree will we have to sit extra exam for the Irish and english?

can someone answer this please?

Garda Recruitment- The Waiting to Apply Room

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