Gerry Adams : Terrorist or Freedom Fighter?

hungry hippo 4 · 12-12-2013 11:10AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Hippo, people are trying to engage in dialogue with you but all you do is come out with personal attacks and rhetoric.

What did Gerry win? The position in northern Ireland is pretty much as it was in 1922.

You haven't engaged in anything!

The situation up there has stalled due to the loyalists. We got a real glimpse at their hatred this year.

Dyr · 12-12-2013 11:13AM

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MjK_C-qV9o

This is a great video of Adams on the Late Late show.

A gallery of critics firing potshots and weak arguments, batted away with ease by Adams. He even shows a sense of humour at times. This to me doesn't seem like a hate-filled man, and certainly not a terrorist.

You have to remember that the likes of gaybo and chicken curry had the run of the place under section 31 but they were'nt accustomed to being answered back, hence their confusion when the audience started to turn. They thought they'd be shooting fish in a barrell

Fratton Fred · 12-12-2013 11:26AM

hungry hippo 4 wrote: »

You haven't engaged in anything!

The situation up there has stalled due to the loyalists. We got a real glimpse at their hatred this year.

In what way has the situation stalled? Northern Ireland seems to be doing well, with the exception of a few Neanderthals who want to drag it back to the bad old days.

Frank Black · 12-12-2013 11:29AM

golfball37 wrote: »

We in the south hate Adams for one reason mainly. Him and his crowd fought back, whereas we would have been incapable of it. Of course the IRA did horrible things but the way we concentrate disproportionally on their atrocities smacks of post colonial self loathing.

Planting bombs in pubs and under cars and running away.
Lying in ditches ambusing people and running away.
Abducting people, executing them and running away.

Most cowardly bunch of 'fighters' the world has ever seen.

There's dozens of perfectly valid reasons to hate Adams and your suggestion doesn't even make the list. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to enjoy some post colonial loathing.

Dyr · 12-12-2013 11:34AM

why would you run away after executing someone? it's not like they're going to chase you

I suppose its for dramatic effect

harryr711 · 12-12-2013 11:37AM

Frank Black wrote: »

Planting bombs in pubs and under cars and running away.
Lying in ditches ambusing people and running away.
Abducting people, executing them and running away.

Most cowardly bunch of 'fighters' the world has ever seen.

There's dozens of perfectly valid reasons to hate Adams and your suggestion doesn't even make the list. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to enjoy some post colonial loathing.

Once again people show a complete ignorance of conflict/war/guerrilla warfare. I don't want to get involved in whataboutery, but for balance - British state forces killing civilians, British state forces carrying out drive-by shootings, etc. without mentioning the actions of loyalist paramilitaries. Were the drive-by shootings and ambushes by the British state forces cowardly acts too? How hard is it for people to understand that in any war, atrocities are committed by both sides? And that warfare between paramilitaries and state forces will always end up being guerrilla warfare due to the gulf in resources? People who think war is two armies lining up in trenches opposite to each other across a battlefield need a reality check.

As I've said before, watch the film "The Battle of Algiers". Educate yourself on the reality of war.

hungry hippo 4 · 12-12-2013 11:38AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

In what way has the situation stalled? Northern Ireland seems to be doing well, with the exception of a few Neanderthals who want to drag it back to the bad old days.

There is still an insistence on those stupid marches to antagonise people. The flag protests that went on for months that clearly damaged the economy and reputation of the North. I m sure the English would love to wash their hands of the place if they could.

Fratton Fred · 12-12-2013 12:04PM

hungry hippo 4 wrote: »

There is still an insistence on those stupid marches to antagonise people. The flag protests that went on for months that clearly damaged the economy and reputation of the North. I m sure the English would love to wash their hands of the place if they could.

You mean like the Sinn Fein one in Castlederg?

hungry hippo 4 · 12-12-2013 12:08PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You mean like the Sinn Fein one in Castlederg?

I don't see riots on the streets or shoppers being harassed by Sinn Fein!

Where is Paisley and Trimble these days? Nowhere! You don't get votes for spewing hatred anymore. Where is Adams and McGuinness? Adams bought and sold the lot of them.

Have you been to any protests yourself fredrick?

Gambas · 12-12-2013 12:14PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Whatever he was/is, history will look favourably at him... long after the bitterly entrenched views of others are dead, cold and forgotten; like those that hold them.

For his part in the prosecution a guerrilla war, or for his part in ending the same guerrilla war?

There is zero chance that history will look favourably on the IRA campaign.

harryr711 · 12-12-2013 12:16PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

In what way has the situation stalled? Northern Ireland seems to be doing well, with the exception of a few Neanderthals who want to drag it back to the bad old days.

It's still a fragile situation, Richard Haass didn't visit recently just for the craic. Some people seem unable to move forwards and instead try to degenerate any discussion into a whataboutery fest lacking in facts, balance, and reality.

hungry hippo 4 · 12-12-2013 12:16PM

Gambas wrote: »

For his part in the prosecution a guerrilla war, or for his part in ending the same guerrilla war?

There is zero chance that history will look favourably on the IRA campaign.

What will the say about the actions that forced the IRA into being?

LordSutch · 12-12-2013 12:22PM

hungry hippo 4 wrote: »

I m sure the English would love to wash their hands of the place if they could.

I suspect The English have very little say as to whether Northern Ireland should be part of the UK or not. The people of Northern Ireland attach themselves to Britain because of kinship and a sense of cultural identity & political belonging to mainland Britain. Now, in the future that may very well change if Nationalists/Republicans overwhelm/outnumber Unionist/Loyalist Ulster, then the place will cease to be part of the United Kingdom, and it will be subsumed into the Irish state > everybody will be happy, 'The English' will be rid of the place, and the Rebublicans will have found their Holy Grail, hurrah, lovely jubbly

)

Gambas · 12-12-2013 12:27PM

hungry hippo 4 wrote: »

What will the say about the actions that forced the IRA into being?

The IRA wasn't 'forced into being'. Things had been sh!t for the nationalists in the North for nearly 50 years before. History won't look favourably on the Unionist/Loyalist community or the Stormont state either, if that is what you mean. Hume and the civil rights movement, Brian Faulkner and a few others will come out of it with credit, but the rest will be remembered for their part in the most shameful period of Irish history in in living memory.

hungry hippo 4 · 12-12-2013 12:29PM

LordSutch wrote: »

I suspect The English have very little say as to whether Northern Ireland should be part of the UK or not. The people of Northern Ireland attach themselves to Britain because of kinship and a sense of cultural identity & political belonging to mainland Britain. Now, in the future that may very well change if Nationalists/Republicans overwhelm/outnumber Unionist/Loyalist Ulster, then the place will cease to be part of the United Kingdom, and it will be subsumed into the Irish state > everybody will be happy, 'The English' will be rid of the place, and the Rebublicans will have found their Holy Grail, hurrah, lovely jubbly )

To be honest, I don't think id want it back. The baggage that comes with it is too much. Best possible outcome is that both sides learn to live together. All marches should be banned. The 12th of july should change to include nationalist, Patricks day likewise.

hungry hippo 4 · 12-12-2013 12:35PM

ahahahahaha

Gerry thought me the fruits of rationality.

Fratton Fred · 12-12-2013 12:37PM

hungry hippo 4 wrote: »

I don't see riots on the streets or shoppers being harassed by Sinn Fein!

Where is Paisley and Trimble these days? Nowhere! You don't get votes for spewing hatred anymore. Where is Adams and McGuinness? Adams bought and sold the lot of them.

Have you been to any protests yourself fredrick?

The March was still antagonistic. To commemorate two members of the IRA, they marched through the town they were going to blow up! Brilliant.

But Sinn Fein can do what they like, because their supporters will never question anything they say or do.

The last protest I attended was an anti apartheid one in 1986. You?

hungry hippo 4 · 12-12-2013 12:42PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The March was still antagonistic. To commemorate two members of the IRA, they marched through the town they were going to blow up! Brilliant.

But Sinn Fein can do what they like, because their supporters will never question anything they say or do.

The last protest I attended was an anti apartheid one in 1986. You?

Was that protest for Catholics up north?

I supported the OAP's here recently.

old hippy · 12-12-2013 01:18PM

Bambi wrote: »

why would you run away after executing someone? it's not like they're going to chase you

I suppose its for dramatic effect

They haven't run away, you know

Skylinehead · 12-12-2013 01:18PM

Gambas wrote: »

The IRA wasn't 'forced into being'. Things had been sh!t for the nationalists in the North for nearly 50 years before. History won't look favourably on the Unionist/Loyalist community or the Stormont state either, if that is what you mean. Hume and the civil rights movement, Brian Faulkner and a few others will come out of it with credit, but the rest will be remembered for their part in the most shameful period of Irish history in in living memory.

Faulkner? Credit? This is the guy that introduced internment you know.

hungry hippo 4 · 12-12-2013 01:21PM

Skylinehead wrote: »

Faulkner? Credit? This is the guy that introduced internment you know.

My eyes widened when I saw Faulkner also.

old hippy · 12-12-2013 01:27PM

hungry hippo 4 wrote: »

whatever,

ya bleedin tan ye :pac:

And once more, a thread on NI/6 counties etc descends into name calling, whataboutery & your lot are worse than my lot etc.

Ireland will always be divided; if not geographically, certainly politically.

Dyr · 12-12-2013 01:30PM

hungry hippo 4 wrote: »

My eyes widened when I saw Faulkner also.

Faulkner knew his hand was forced by hardline unionists. He also knew heath was going to shaft him at the first chance.

hungry hippo 4 · 12-12-2013 01:47PM

old hippy wrote: »

And once more, a thread on NI/6 counties etc descends into name calling, whataboutery & your lot are worse than my lot etc.

Ireland will always be divided; if not geographically, certainly politically.

I was joking jeez

old hippy · 12-12-2013 01:50PM

hungry hippo 4 wrote: »

I was joking jeez

Apologies, one gets wary of the constant asinine appelations simply because one doesn't buy into the whole nationalism schtick.

hungry hippo 4 · 12-12-2013 01:55PM

old hippy wrote: »

Apologies, one gets wary of the constant asinine appelations simply because one doesn't buy into the whole nationalism schtick.

More tan talk :pac:

You can't disagree that the Catholics where treated as second class citizens. In a perfect world it would have been resolved by dialogue but that was not the case. A war was inevitable. Atrocities are committed in every conflict.
I think you find it easy looking from the outside in!

flutered · 12-12-2013 02:01PM

back in the day a nationalist was akin to cat **** on the toe of a unionst shoe, any one here had a pint in a pub with an armoured car outside the door in case some crowd ran in and started to open fire randomly, or driving along the road and a bloke with a gordie accent rams the barrel of a gun into the side of your jaw when you open the window, then tell you to fcuk off home to your country, or the place you were staying in burned to the ground because of the religion of the occupents, today we have john major praising adams, not long ago we had a priest who was respected by both communitys claiming he was the best politician in europe.

K-9 · 12-12-2013 02:02PM

Bambi wrote: »

Faulkner knew his hand was forced by hardline unionists. He also knew heath was going to shaft him at the first chance.

Both within his party and externally with the rise of Paisley at the time.

old hippy · 12-12-2013 02:09PM

hungry hippo 4 wrote: »

More tan talk :pac:

You can't disagree that the Catholics where treated as second class citizens. In a perfect world it would have been resolved by dialogue but that was not the case. A war was inevitable. Atrocities are committed in every conflict.
I think you find it easy looking from the outside in!

Au contraire, I certainly wouldn't disagree that Catholics were hard done by. I'm not blind. As someone who has kin from many sources, I can assure you I'm not on the outside looking in.

How can I explain it, when I read these threads? Ah, that's it... jaded.

Mine own fault, I keep hoping to see a ray of light - something positive. I will remain hopeful.

Courtesy Flush · 12-12-2013 02:22PM

Prior to 1969 Catholics/Nationalists in the North were treated like dirt by the ruling Protestant class. They didnt have equality in any sense. They had civil rights marches where they were attacked by the police force (completely Protestant) and many were burned out of their homes for 'daring' to ask for equal rights. It was a Fascist state. No one was there to protect them so the IRA filled the gap. I think the IRA volunteers who too up arms achieved enormous success, but not compete success as Britain is still in Ireland
The only thing I dont like about Gerry Adams is his denial that he was an IRA volunteer

Gerry Adams : Terrorist or Freedom Fighter?

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