Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread III

thomond2006 · 02-12-2013 03:52PM

Two USAP players involved in a bar incident at the weekend, one of them (Votu) is a potential starter for Sunday.

As for the team, I think it picks itself bar 1, 7, 12 and one winger. I'd like to see Dineen at 12 over Downey and Keatley to remain ahead of JJ for now.

Fireball07 · 02-12-2013 04:03PM

If I was picking the team, I'd go for:

Murphy, Earls, Laulala, Dineen, Conway, JJ, Murray
Cronin, Varley, Botha, DOC, POC, POM, Stander, Coughlan

With a bench of:

Sherry/Casey, Killer, Archer, Foley, Dougall, Sheridan, Keatley, Jones

However- I think Penney will pick Jones at 15, Murphy on the wing, Downey at 12, Keatley at OH, Killer at 1, Dougall at 7 and he may have Williams on the bench.

I just think JJ deserves a shot to start, he's been impressive recently and Dineen is just a better player than Downey at this stage, as well as Cronin offfering more in the scrum.

thomond2006 · 02-12-2013 07:10PM

Perpignan will be down two looseheads as both Taumalolo and Taofifenua are out. Their first choice tighthead Jgenti is injured too. Wandile Mjekevu (winger) is also out.

With their missing props it's a great chance to get an advantage in the scrum.

phog · 02-12-2013 07:12PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Perpignan will be down to their third choice loosehead as both Taumalolo and Taofifenua are out. Their firsr choice tighthead Jgenti is injured too. Wandile Mjekevu (winger) is also out.

Hopefully Botha can get an advantage over whoever is at loosehead.

Mafi is still out too, ban not lifted until Monday, would have loved to see him play.

Cookiemunster · 03-12-2013 04:25PM

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/12583.php#.Up32EdJdVu0

They don't know how bad it is yet, but Sherry damaged his ACL. Looks like he's going to be out for quite a while

POM and Foley back in training and Coughlan back tomorrow.

thomond2006 · 03-12-2013 04:33PM

Bad news alright, that could be 6-9 months if it's a tear.

I'd like to think we would be allowed to bring in a medical joker if Sherry is gone for the year but hopefully it won't come to that.

Cookiemunster · 03-12-2013 04:39PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Bad news alright, that could be 6-9 months if it's a tear.

I'd like to think we would be allowed to bring in a medical joker if Sherry is gone for the year but hopefully it won't come to that.

Will we be allowed? Leinster are already trying to bring one in to replace Strauss.

PlayerTrader13 · 03-12-2013 04:51PM

the last position munster need a medical joker is hooker, Duncan Casey and Niall Scannell are ready.

former legend · 03-12-2013 05:06PM

PlayerTrader13 wrote: »

the last position munster need a medical joker is hooker, Duncan Casey and Niall Scannell are ready.

Are they? Ready for Heineken Cup? I'd love to hear more opinions on that.

I'd have thought Munster were far more deserving of a joker than Leinster who are actually quite well off so long as Cronin and Dundon stay fit.

Foxtrol · 03-12-2013 05:20PM

former legend wrote: »

Are they? Ready for Heineken Cup? I'd love to hear more opinions on that.

I'd have thought Munster were far more deserving of a joker than Leinster who are actually quite well off so long as Cronin and Dundon stay fit.

Does it really have to be turned into a pissing contest of which who needs a medical joker more?

If you think about it it’s obvious why Leinster are likely to get dispensation for one from the IRFU.

PlayerTrader13 · 03-12-2013 05:23PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Does it really have to be turned into a pissing contest of which who needs a medical joker more?

If you think about it it’s obvious why Leinster are likely to get dispensation for one from the IRFU.

Leinster have a 22 year LH prop who recently was converted to hooker behind Dundon and Cronin.

Munster have two very talented hookers in the academy who are more than ready to step up.

finatron · 03-12-2013 05:25PM

former legend wrote: »

Are they? Ready for Heineken Cup? I'd love to hear more opinions on that.

I'd have thought Munster were far more deserving of a joker than Leinster who are actually quite well off so long as Cronin and Dundon stay fit.

If them lads are not ready then whats the point in the academy you cant step up if your not given a chance

former legend · 03-12-2013 05:26PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Does it really have to be turned into a pissing contest of which who needs a medical joker more?
If you think about it it’s obvious why Leinster are likely to get dispensation for one from the IRFU.

I'm going to try to remain civil here.

I'm a Leinster fan; I'm not sure why I'd be p*ssing on my own province.

I know exactly why Leinster are likely to get one, thanks, but 'Cookiemunster' above had said that Munster may not be able to get one because Leinster were also looking for one; hence my comment about Munster's need being greater.

Clear?

Risteard · 03-12-2013 05:26PM

How do players get ready if they're not played? Players don't magically develop by going to the gym and playing A games surrounded by other players trying to develop.

Getting a so called 'medical joker' would be farcical and it sends out the signal that we're not really interested in developing our own players. They're just there to make up the numbers until they're 27/28 when they might get a shot.

Foxtrol · 03-12-2013 05:27PM

PlayerTrader13 wrote: »

Leinster have a 22 year LH prop who recently was converted to hooker behind Dundon and Cronin.

Munster have two very talented hookers in the academy who are more than ready to step up.

I agree Munster depth is slightly better but I think the key point is the fact that the IRFU will have Cronin away with the Irish squad and missing games under player welfare guidelines when none of the remaining Munster hookers will be affected nearly as much.

PlayerTrader13 · 03-12-2013 05:29PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I agree Munster depth is slightly better but I think the key point is the fact that the IRFU will have Cronin away with the Irish squad and missing games under player welfare guidelines when none of the remaining Munster hookers will be affected nearly as much.

Forgot about that, Varley is a good bit off the Ireland team bar injury.

Once the 6 nations comes round Leinster would only have Dundon and Tracy without the medical joker.

Foxtrol · 03-12-2013 05:36PM

former legend wrote: »

I'm going to try to remain civil here.

I'm a Leinster fan; I'm not sure why I'd be p*ssing on my own province.

I know exactly why Leinster are likely to get one, thanks, but 'Cookiemunster' above had said that Munster may not be able to get one because Leinster were also looking for one; hence my comment about Munster's need being greater.

Clear?

You’re the one who started saying that one need was greater than the other, ie a pissing contest of need (not pissing on anybody like you seem to believe I meant). This happens every time a medical joker comes into a side and another gets an injury and quite frankly it gets tiresome.

thomond2006 · 03-12-2013 05:44PM

Who is the better player, Scannell or Casey?

PlayerTrader13 · 03-12-2013 06:03PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Who is the better player, Scannell or Casey?

Casey seems to be ahead of him based on A games.

phog · 03-12-2013 06:22PM

finatron wrote: »

If them lads are not ready then whats the point in the academy you cant step up if your not given a chance

If it was as simple as that then there should be no need for medical jokers.

PlayerTrader13 · 03-12-2013 06:27PM

phog wrote: »

If it was as simple as that then there should be no need for medical jokers.

its as simple as that for Munster..

Munster moved two other hookers to Connacht last year because of their outstanding depth and talent at the position.

They chose Casey and Scannell over Henry and Rael. They are obviously highly rated, if one of them aren't ready now, when will they be?

I'm sure Casey and Scannell are chopping at the bit to get that opportunity.

phog · 03-12-2013 06:40PM

PlayerTrader13 wrote: »

its as simple as that for Munster..

Munster moved two other hookers to Connacht last year because of their outstanding depth and talent at the position.

They chose Casey and Scannell over Henry and Rael. They are obviously highly rated, if one of them aren't ready now, when will they be?

I'm sure Casey and Scannell are chopping at the bit to get that opportunity.

If Sherry is out for as long as Thomond suggested we're talking about stepping up to H/cup level not just a few Rabo games, in fact it would bring us to knock-out games.

I'd never doubt a players self belief but there's a huge step up from academy to Rabo and a bigger step up again to Heineken cup, these guys might be up for it but I'd prefer if they had a season in the Rabo behind them.

PlayerTrader13 · 03-12-2013 06:44PM

phog wrote: »

If Sherry is out for as long as Thomond suggested we're talking about stepping up to H/cup level not just a few Rabo games, in fact it would bring us to knock-out games.

I'd never doubt a players self belief but there's a huge step up from academy to Rabo and a bigger step up again to Heineken cup, these guys might be up for it but I'd prefer if they had a season in the Rabo behind them.

I would consider that to be Penny's fault for not have a 3rd string hooker with any experience at a level higher than A level. Casey is on a development contract this season, he will more than likely be on the bench next week for Munster.

Is it ideal? certainly not but i'm sure Duncan Casey doesn't mind all that much.

Fireball07 · 03-12-2013 06:51PM

I would like to think that we'd have faith in Casey/Scannell tbh. I thought Scannell was immense at the JWC, and if Casey is better, then I think he should be able to slot in as a sub hooker.

Cronin has adapted brilliantly at LH, I don't see why one of them wouldn't tbh.

If they play, and struggle...then maybe a medical joker would be necessary, but they were named in the squad originally.

phog · 03-12-2013 07:14PM

PlayerTrader13 wrote: »

I would consider that to be Penny's fault for not have a 3rd string hooker with any experience at a level higher than A level. Casey is on a development contract this season, he will more than likely be on the bench next week for Munster.

Is it ideal? certainly not but i'm sure Duncan Casey doesn't mind all that much.

Of course it's Penney's fault in the same way it's MOC's fault for not giving game time to his academy players when he actually knew for some time that he was without Strauss and was going to be without Cronin during Irish camp & rest periods.

Fireball07 wrote: »

I would like to think that we'd have faith in Casey/Scannell tbh. I thought Scannell was immense at the JWC, and if Casey is better, then I think he should be able to slot in as a sub hooker.

Cronin has adapted brilliantly at LH, I don't see why one of them wouldn't tbh.

If they play, and struggle...then maybe a medical joker would be necessary, but they were named in the squad originally.

We've been very lucky with players stepping up to the plate when needed but that's missing the point about using the academies and medical jokers to bridge gaps in specialist positions.

PlayerTrader13 · 03-12-2013 07:19PM

phog wrote: »

Of course it's Penney's fault in the same way it's MOC's fault for not giving game time to his academy players when he actually knew for some time that he was without Strauss and was going to be without Cronin during Irish camp & rest periods.

We've been very lucky with players stepping up to the plate when needed but that's missing the point about using the academies and medical jokers to bridge gaps in specialist positions.

well considering they started moving tracy there before strauss's condition became clear and they have began blooding him at hooker, i'd say he did just about everything possible. But leinster don't have the depth at hooker that munster have, especially in recent graduates from the academy.

Casey and Scannell should be more than enough cover. I'd take either over our medical joker we are getting.

who_me · 03-12-2013 07:30PM

Fireball07 wrote: »

I would like to think that we'd have faith in Casey/Scannell tbh. I thought Scannell was immense at the JWC, and if Casey is better, then I think he should be able to slot in as a sub hooker.

Cronin has adapted brilliantly at LH, I don't see why one of them wouldn't tbh.

If they play, and struggle...then maybe a medical joker would be necessary, but they were named in the squad originally.

It would be great to give youth a chance, as you say Cronin has made a huge impact and is now not far off Kilcoyne if not already ahead of him, despite his senior (Pro12) debut only coming towards the end of last season. Of course, there's no guarantee that because one young player delivered that others will do likewise.. but if we don't select them we'll never know.

Seems to me, with the gradual retirement of lots of established players over the last few years, we're seen a lot of young talent across the provinces get significant game time. Good to see.

phog · 03-12-2013 07:34PM

PlayerTrader13 wrote: »

well considering they started moving tracy there before strauss's condition became clear and they have began blooding him at hooker, i'd say he did just about everything possible. But leinster don't have the depth at hooker that munster have, especially in recent graduates from the academy.

Casey and Scannell should be more than enough cover. I'd take either over our medical joker we are getting.

Did he, what gametime has he given Tracy or his academy hookers since he found out that Strauss was out with his injury?

Penney got word during the week that he's without Sherry.

Leinster have 3 hookers in their squad and 3 in their academy

Munster have 2 hookers in their squad and 2 with development contracts.

I would think Aaron Dundon is better than Casey or Scannell not to mind whoever is being lined up as a medical joker.

PlayerTrader13 · 03-12-2013 07:44PM

phog wrote: »

Did he, what gametime has he given Tracy or his academy hookers since he found out that Strauss was out with his injury?

Penney got word during the week that he's without Sherry.

Leinster have 3 hookers in their squad and 3 in their academy

Munster have 2 hookers in their squad and 2 with development contracts.

I would think Aaron Dundon is better than Casey or Scannell not to mind whoever is being lined up as a medical joker.

Leinster had Cronin, Dundon and Strauss in the squad.

Then they have Tracy who moved to hooker during preseason who is still in the academy and Byrne who just turned 20.

Strauss is done for the season and Cronin will miss large chunks of leinster's season with Ireland.

Leaving Leinster with Dundon, Tracy(a novice hooker at best) and Byrne(a young academy player who isn't ready).

Munster will have Varley, Casey and Scannell.

Casey and Scannell are clearly ready for top level rugby unlike Tracy and Byrne.

One injury to Dundon and Leinster would be playing tracy at hooker, he might have less than 10 games total at any level playing hooker.

you can moan all you want but its clear which team needs a medical joke and which doesn't.

Foxtrol · 03-12-2013 07:51PM

phog wrote: »

Did he, what gametime has he given Tracy or his academy hookers since he found out that Strauss was out with his injury?

Penney got word during the week that he's without Sherry.

Leinster have 3 hookers in their squad and 3 in their academy

Munster have 2 hookers in their squad and 2 with development contracts.

I would think Aaron Dundon is better than Casey or Scannell not to mind whoever is being lined up as a medical joker.

This is the exact crap I knew was going to start with that comment earlier.

So you’re asking what game time MOC has given to his 4th/5th choice hooker after his #1 was ruled out and the IRFU had already sanctioned a medical joker, given the fact his #2 is nailed on Irish backup and will miss several games at least?

Think the more pertinent question for Munster fans is how has Penney gotten into the situation again where he’s left with his 3rd choice being required to step up after being given barely any experience previously. This is becoming a trend and should be something to be focusing on rather than moaning about the situation another province is in.

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread III

Comments