Farming Chit Chat III

TITANIUM. · 02-12-2013 10:43AM

rancher wrote: »

Was at a sheep meeting last week where they put up the result of the Teagasc profit monitors 2012 average net profit
.
Suckler to beef...€60/ha
Suckler to weanling....-€60/ha
Ewes........€22/ewe
Dairy.......€1200/cow
Don't think you need anymore information than that if your're making plans

Christ thats frightening!

bob charles · 02-12-2013 11:01AM

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Christ thats frightening!

sure is, and the old saying holds true that you dont need to be a good farmer to make money milking

darragh_haven · 02-12-2013 11:08AM

rancher wrote: »

Was at a sheep meeting last week where they put up the result of the Teagasc profit monitors 2012 average net profit
.
Suckler to beef...€60/ha
Suckler to weanling....-€60/ha
Ewes........€22/ewe
Dairy.......€1200/cow
Don't think you need anymore information than that if your're making plans

I think its clear what need to be done.......

A savage cut in milk price to bring the dairy men back in line :-D

reilig · 02-12-2013 11:09AM

rancher wrote: »

Was at a sheep meeting last week where they put up the result of the Teagasc profit monitors 2012 average net profit
.
Suckler to beef...€60/ha
Suckler to weanling....-€60/ha
Ewes........€22/ewe
Dairy.......€1200/cow
Don't think you need anymore information than that if your're making plans

These figures where shown at a teagasc event that I was at recently - albeit the focus was on the suckling farmers. It's not very pretty, however, I came away with with some positives. The top 10% of suckler farmers are coming away with over €600 /ha GP on average. The top 20% are coming away with €450/ha NP on average. However, the bottom 50% are averaging a loss of €500/ha. So the ones at the top are doing ok and they ones at the bottom are doing so bad that they make the average look pathetic.

The other thing that struck me from a survey is that 70% of suckler farmers don't know what their costs were for last year, don't do a profit monitor etc. These people were described as farmers just living to farm or farming to live. They have no concern about making profit. As long as they have food on the table and little or no tax bills, they are happy enough to keep going the way that they are going. They don't want to change. They are happy to use the SFP to keep things going.

The speaker mentioned "how are we supposed to help people to make more profit when they don't want to be helped"

So in theory, there is massive room for improvement for those that want to improve!

onyerbikepat · 02-12-2013 11:18AM

Interesting times ahead alright, when the floodgates open in Dairying.

On suckling, how many of these guys are 60+ years just happy to 'tip away' at their daily chores?
...Or how many are working full time and thinking I can put in all this extra work and the bloody tax man is going to take half of it anyway, why bother?

bob charles · 02-12-2013 11:20AM

reilig wrote: »

These figures where shown at a teagasc event that I was at recently - albeit the focus was on the suckling farmers. It's not very pretty, however, I came away with with some positives. The top 10% of suckler farmers are coming away with over €600 /ha GP on average. The top 20% are coming away with €450/ha GP on average. However, the bottom 50% are averaging a loss of €500/ha. So the ones at the top are doing ok and they ones at the bottom are doing so bad that they make the average look pathetic.

The other thing that struck me from a survey is that 70% of suckler farmers don't know what their costs were for last year, don't do a profit monitor etc. These people were described as farmers just living to farm or farming to live. They have no concern about making profit. As long as they have food on the table and little or no tax bills, they are happy enough to keep going the way that they are going. They don't want to change. They are happy to use the SFP to keep things going.

The speaker mentioned "how are we supposed to help people to make more profit when they don't want to be helped"

So in theory, there is massive room for improvement for those that want to improve!

I would love to get to that point where I just farm for the sake of it and not too bothered if the farm makes a profit or not

the exact same can be said for dairy farmers though reilig about the top % and the bottom %. Some are crap and make a little money and some are very good and make a shed load of cash

reilig · 02-12-2013 11:43AM

bob charles wrote: »

the exact same can be said for dairy farmers though reilig about the top % and the bottom %. Some are crap and make a little money and some are very good and make a shed load of cash

true, but the vast majority of dairy farmers are young and energetic people. They have mortgages and families and farm full time. It's **** or get off the pot for them. Lots of suckler farmers seem to be sitting on the pot all of the time.

Muckit · 02-12-2013 11:56AM

reilig wrote: »

true, but the vast majority of dairy farmers are young and energetic people. They have mortgages and families and farm full time. It's **** or get off the pot for them. Lots of suckler farmers seem to be sitting on the pot all of the time.

Ahhh..... but why can they farm full time? The potential to make money is there. There may be some potential in beef, but it's extremely limited. If we take those figures quoted previously, there would be a great national suckler herd if a lad was guaranteed half (600) the money per cow that a dairy farmer can make.

Also as stated in the factory tread, where's the incentive to produce good cattle if the grid isn't recognising and paying out for this? No point talking about live export this and that as this market would not be viable if everyone was producing for it.

reilig · 02-12-2013 12:12PM

Muckit wrote: »

Ahhh..... but why can they farm full time? The potential to make money is there. There may be some potential in beef, but it's extremely limited. If we take those figures quoted previously, there would be a great national suckler herd if a lad was guaranteed half (600) the money per cow that a dairy farmer can make.

Also as stated in the factory tread, where's the incentive to produce good cattle if the grid isn't recognising and paying out for this? No point talking about live export this and that as this market would not be viable if everyone was producing for it.

The figure I gave was per hectare not per cow.

There is definitely more money in dairying. That's why the majority of sensible young lads chose that route. But it's a 7 day a week job and it doesn't work well along side an off farm job. Neither will it work well on poorer land!

The other thing I'll say is that you're long enough farming now and you should know that there's no guarantee in farming

Also, what goes up will at some stage come crashing down to leave a lot of people out of pocket

Conmaicne Mara · 02-12-2013 12:15PM

reilig wrote: »

Neither will it work well on poorer land!

There goes my deposit on those 20 black & whites then

Timmaay · 02-12-2013 12:16PM

reilig wrote: »

The top 10% of suckler farmers are coming away with over €600 /ha GP on average. The top 20% are coming away with €450/ha GP on average. However, the bottom 50% are averaging a loss of €500/ha. So the ones at the top are doing ok and they ones at the bottom are doing so bad that they make the average look pathetic.

The other thing that struck me from a survey is that 70% of suckler farmers don't know what their costs were for last year, don't do a profit monitor etc.

The other thing that I'd question about profit monitors are how reflective is the Teagasc sample used in the figures above, certainly I would mostly expect the lads who actually bother doing a profit monitor are the ones who are likely to be at the better end of the scale! If 70% don't bother, are the most of these at the bottom end, if we had a snapshot of them all, would it make the figures look even worse ha? That goes for dairying also, not just sucklers! Thankfully none of that takes from your positive however, as you said the top 10% sucklers make 600/ha so thats where to target!

Muckit · 02-12-2013 12:40PM

reilig wrote: »

The figure I gave was per hectare not per cow

I was using the figure rancher gave for dairy, which was per cow. I think twas 1200/cow could be made. To clear half this would be a great figure for a suckler lad!

Marooned75 · 02-12-2013 12:41PM

Beef exports reopened to Japan will it give beef a lift or not make any noticeable difference?

reilig · 02-12-2013 12:47PM

Muckit wrote: »

I was using the figure rancher gave for dairy, which was per cow. I think twas 1200/cow could be made. To clear half this would be a great figure for a suckler lad!

It would be savage, but we would need to be averaging €1200 for a 10 month old weanling to get it!

reilig · 02-12-2013 12:49PM

Marooned75 wrote: »

Beef exports reopened to Japan will it give beef a lift or not make any noticeable difference?

€15 million worth.

Approx 10,000 animal carcasses I heard.

It will still be going through the meat factories. They will be trying to keep the lifts to a minimum.

rancher · 02-12-2013 12:55PM

Timmaay wrote: »

The other thing that I'd question about profit monitors are how reflective is the Teagasc sample used in the figures above, certainly I would mostly expect the lads who actually bother doing a profit monitor are the ones who are likely to be at the better end of the scale! If 70% don't bother, are the most of these at the bottom end, if we had a snapshot of them all, would it make the figures look even worse ha? That goes for dairying also, not just sucklers! Thankfully none of that takes from your positive however, as you said the top 10% sucklers make 600/ha so thats where to target!

Reilig is right about averages, if everyone was average, they'd be walking around on less than two legs.
But reilig is also talking gross profit, big difference, our fixed costs are €250/ha on a sheep farm and sucklers would have higher, so you're talking down to £300/ha
Only 2% of farmers do profit monitors, so we're talking about good farmers.
On saying that, my own profit monitor for 2012 (bad year) revealed €45/ewe net profit before subsidies. 9.6 ewes/ha
Top third suckler to weanling €255/ha
Top 10% dairy .....milk price 36.84c/ltr.... net profit €2336/ha. As I said all 2012 as well

reilig · 02-12-2013 12:57PM

rancher wrote: »

Reilig is right about averages, if everyone was average, they'd be walking around on less than two legs.
But reilig is also talking gross profit, big difference, our fixed costs are €250/ha on a sheep farm and sucklers would have higher, so you're talking down to £300/ha
Only 2% of farmers do profit monitors, so we're talking about good farmers.
On saying that, my own profit monitor for 2012 (bad year) revealed €45/ewe net profit before subsidies. 9.6 ewes/ha
Top third suckler to weanling €205/ha
Top 10% dairy .....milk price 36.84c/ltr.... net profit €2336/ha. As I said all 2012 as well

Sorry rancher I made a mistake, it was Net profit figures that we were given at the meeting.

rancher · 02-12-2013 01:11PM

reilig wrote: »

Sorry rancher I made a mistake, it was Net profit figures that we were given at the meeting.

I'm putting up the figures off the website here, it's deffo 2....oops mistake,its actually €255 net profit

Suckler 2012.JPG

Just realised you referring to top 10%..oops again

jersey101 · 02-12-2013 01:13PM

I left the gate open in the yard this morning and my maiden heifers got out. There in a 12 acre paddock now and i cant get em out haha

Kovu · 02-12-2013 02:34PM

Was watching that sh*te Come Dine with me yesterday evening and seen one girl trying to be really posh and say her farm had reared the beef and she named the cow. And then they slaughered....him
And he was a lovely cow and was a pet until they killed him.

Get your facts right woman:D

Conmaicne Mara · 02-12-2013 02:38PM

Kovu Murr wrote: »

Was watching that sh*te Come Dine with me yesterday evening and seen one girl trying to be really posh and say her farm had reared the beef and she named the cow. And then they slaughered....him
And he was a lovely cow and was a pet until they killed him.

Get your facts right woman:D

Hope she didn't try to milk him.

Kovu · 02-12-2013 02:39PM

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Hope she didn't try to milk him.

She may not have noticed the difference.:pac:

bob charles · 02-12-2013 03:06PM

reilig wrote: »

€15 million worth.

Approx 10,000 animal carcasses I heard.

It will still be going through the meat factories. They will be trying to keep the lifts to a minimum.

I know I may come across on the side of the meat factories but they are working hard for new markets. Look how much price has pushed on in the last 2 years and we are complaining about todays price. it would have being dreamland 2 years ago. Im all for stronger prices but the factories are targeting high end premium markets and succeeding, its fascinating to see the deliver dockets for where meat is going from our export plants. They are happy once that they can maintain there margin or increase it while also increasing the price of beef. I know a couple of the factories have offices in the Far East and they have got top lads in these regions trying to push sales and markets. Its notoriously hard to do business in such regions but credit must go to them for trying. I know a Japanese delegation over recently were flabbergasted with our standards in meat plants.

Just to think that 10 months ago we were up **** creek as regards beef traceability this is great news. They should hopefully prove to be a good outlet for 5 quarter meat

td5man · 02-12-2013 03:52PM

bob charles wrote: »

I know I may come across on the side of the meat factories but they are working hard for new markets. Look how much price has pushed on in the last 2 years and we are complaining about todays price. it would have being dreamland 2 years ago. Im all for stronger prices but the factories are targeting high end premium markets and succeeding, its fascinating to see the deliver dockets for where meat is going from our export plants. They are happy once that they can maintain there margin or increase it while also increasing the price of beef. I know a couple of the factories have offices in the Far East and they have got top lads in these regions trying to push sales and markets. Its notoriously hard to do business in such regions but credit must go to them for trying. I know a Japanese delegation over recently were flabbergasted with our standards in meat plants.

Just to think that 10 months ago we were up **** creek as regards beef traceability this is great news. They should hopefully prove to be a good outlet for 5 quarter meat

Until someone gets greedy again.

reilig · 02-12-2013 04:20PM

td5man wrote: »

Until someone gets greedy again.

That'll never happen . . . . . again

Sure we all know it was the fault of those dam poles the last time and their stupid wonky labelling machine that printed beef instead or horse :eek:

Conmaicne Mara · 02-12-2013 05:46PM

From tomorrows Farming Independent:

Fears grow over €1bn Pillar II funding cut
Fears are growing in farming circles that the rural development pot of funding that has traditionally been funded 50:50 by the EU and the national exchequer is going to suffer a hit of over €1bn over the next seven years, writes Declan O’Brien

rancher · 02-12-2013 05:53PM

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

From tomorrows Farming Independent:

Fears grow over €1bn Pillar II funding cut
Fears are growing in farming circles that the rural development pot of funding that has traditionally been funded 50:50 by the EU and the national exchequer is going to suffer a hit of over €1bn over the next seven years, writes Declan O’Brien

That's what the rally was about ,pity he didn't put that in the indo the day of the rally, we'd fill Mullingar never mind the hotel.

Conmaicne Mara · 02-12-2013 06:15PM

rancher wrote: »

That's what the rally was about ,pity he didn't put that in the indo the day of the rally, we'd fill Mullingar never mind the hotel.

Coveney will lose FG votes in disadvantaged areas if he makes a mess of this. I know mine will go from them and be unlikely to return. I realise the state of the country, but when shyte like the rural speed sign (€8m) appears on TV I refuse to believe they don't have the money for 50:50.

I do have time for my local FG TD, I genuinely do, but me and a lot more have to live also.

Sharpshooter82 · 02-12-2013 06:45PM

Just in from giving a mate a hand with the roof of his shed. dont be long getting cold up on a metal roof....bloody hell

TITANIUM. · 02-12-2013 06:48PM

****e. Auld fella shifted to Hospital.

Farming Chit Chat III

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