Carl Froch vs George Groves

darced · 26-11-2013 05:51AM

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Fabric Softener · 26-11-2013 09:13AM

Just saw the stoppage. It was outrageous. Groves was fine, sure he took a couple decent shots, but he was hitting back and protecting hinself. He would have weathered the storm and gone on to win the fight imo. That ref should be sacked, I don't care if he "only had a split second to make a decision", there was no reason to stop the fight. Its boxing, you are supposed to be hit.

If the ref wants to be so cautious and protect their health he should have stopped the fight as soon as the first bell rang.

Gorman700 · 26-11-2013 10:26AM

darced wrote: »

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Groves was ready to go there, look at the last punch Carl connects with, Groves hands drop and even when the ref grabs him his hands nearly tough the floor. When the ref eventually let's him out of that bizarre head lock he slumps on to the ropes and takes a knee. He was gone, simple as that.

Tiriel · 26-11-2013 10:55AM

Did anyone hear the interview with Paddy Fitzpatrick, Groves' trainer yesterday evening? I think it was on Newstalk - it was pretty grounded. He just asked why, if the ref was claiming he was there to protect the fighter, he didn't stop the fight when Froch was hurt earlier. Balance between protecting the fighter is getting harder to call, ruining fights vs serious injury the likes of Abdusalamov.

I liked that when asked what were you whispering in his ear before going into the right, he answered "there was a reason I was whispering!".

kryogen · 26-11-2013 11:31AM

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Nobody is blaming Froch for what happened but some of the comments he's made since the fight have made him look like a right **** to be quite honest. Saying that the ref saved Groves' career makes him look quite stupid, especially considering the amount of punches Groves landed on him during that 9 rounds. I personally would be surprised if Froch took a rematch. He'll want to fight Ward again now and then retire. He wont beat Ward though, Ward is in a completely different class to him.

There have been plenty of people angry at Froch about the stoppage, which is ridiculous. The post match interview etc he obviously sounds like a tool, as much of a tool as Groves sounded like before the fight.

In my honest opinion the ref stopped the fight a bit early, but the more I watch it the more I think Groves may have been gone, it does look like his hands go and his head goes just before the ref steps in. He doesn't struggle or resist the ref at all initially, he appears to be out of it a little bit. Watch the video a couple of posts above again.

Having said that I still think that given how the fight had gone, how far ahead Groves should have been on points he should have given him a better chance to carry on. The flip side is that if he hadn't stopped it (and he has to go on instinct) and Groves had got seriously hurt he would be slaughtered for not stepping in.

I know which one I would prefer to have on my conscience but I try not to judge the ref too harshly, the judges with the ridiculous scores on the other hand, they should be slapped.

DuckHook · 26-11-2013 12:58PM

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Why would you quit posting on the thread? only person getting bothered is yourself, its only opinions.

Your really struggling with using a pre-fight prediction to "prove" your point by the way as i never even brought that up.

In my opinion your simply carrying on with your "differing opinion" to attempt to get under peoples skins and im sure a few would agree with me.

nacho libre · 26-11-2013 02:12PM

Y

kryogen wrote: »

He did not come across well in the interview alright, then again he never comes across particularly well Groves was just as annoying in the pre fight stuff I would say though.

I don't think a re match would go the distance, one or the other would be stopped. I still think it would more likely be Groves to get stopped but am not sure we will get the chance to find out.

Froch is a notorious slow starter, and he was caught cold in the first. I would hope that he could ensure he isn't that slow out of the blocks in a re match,if Groves can stick to his game plan he could also get a late stoppage though I reckon.

For me, it would be interesting anyway, so many possibilities and potential twists to the fight

Yes. Groves was annoying in the build up, but a lot of that was coming from being with Booth, though Groves is smart enough not to have stick to a script.

I don't agree with all that, because where do you draw the line, is it okay to insult someone dead mother if it will potentially increase your chancing of winning because it causes your opponent to fight with blind rage.

as for the stoppage, well at the time i was calling the decision bull****, but it's easy to criticise when you're not responsible for making split- second decisions that could have devastating consequences if you don't make the right one. i'd rather be remembered for stopping a fight prematurely, than being the ref in the Eubank V Watson fight.

I admire Carl's sheer determination and ability to take a punch, but he was disingenuous to laud the ref' for his decision, when you know well he'd be bucking if the ref had stopped him from continuing on. Groves was right, the image of him being a powerful puncher but chinny is what influenced the ref, whereas Carl has the image of a warrior, so there was no question of pulling him out in the first and sixth, whereas a lot of other fighters might have been.

I'm starting to think there won't be a rematch. If there is i don't think it will matter if Carl starts fast( he started fast against Bute), he'll still be made to look cumbersome, as he always has against slick boxers, only this time i don't think he'll be able to force a stoppage.

blade1 · 26-11-2013 02:34PM

kryogen wrote: »

What makes you say that? He was absolutely battered with Groves best shots saturday and kept coming forward, kept hanging in there, kept throwing punches and put himself in a position to win the fight

Of course anyone can be KO's but I would be surprised if Groves could knock him out easily considering he gave it his best shot and came up short already

The only thing Groves would have on his side are Froch will be even older, and he will have learned from the experience of being in that fight. My main gripe with him was the fight came a couple of fights early. That wouldn't be an issue in the re match.

I would expect Froch to be better prepared in a re match however and if he doesn't get caught cold in the first the fight would probably go a little different.

Would be more interested in the re match then I was the original I think.

Groves took his foot off the gas so he'd have plenty to last the 12 rounds.
Froch hits him with a few shots, not even clean ones and the ref dived in.
If the ref didn't stop the fight prematurely,it was only a matter of time before Froch got knocked out.
Froch was giving all he had and was lucky he had a ref on his side because he would have been spent after that exchange.
Groves had Froch's number from the first bell.
He had he's number even well before the fight.

walshb · 26-11-2013 02:46PM

blade1 wrote: »

Groves took his foot off the gas so he'd have plenty to last the 12 rounds.
Froch hits him with a few shots, not even clean ones and the ref dived in.
If the ref didn't stop the fight prematurely,it was only a matter of time before Froch got knocked out.
Froch was giving all he had and was lucky he had a ref on his side because he would have been spent after that exchange.
Groves had Froch's number from the first bell.
He had he's number even well before the fight.

I don't see it as that simple at all. The referee made a split second decision that they are forced to do at times. Nobody knows if the referee got it right or wrong.

I have a good feeling that HAD the referee allowed Groves to continue, and had George been still a bit wobbly allowing Carl to follow up and connect cleanly, resulting in real damage to Groves, there would be many slating the referee for allowing it to go on. Amongst those many the same people who are slating him for stopping it.

I believe the referee may have jumped in early, but I am sitting at home watching the television. The referee is right up and close and intimately involved. I would rather put my trust in the referee than the armchair viewer as regards a debated and "early" halting to a fight.

walshb · 26-11-2013 02:53PM

pac_man wrote: »

Your post is full of assumptions which doesn't translate for a strong argument.

Spot on. Assumptions presented as certainties it seems.

blade1 · 26-11-2013 02:58PM

walshb wrote: »

I don't see it as that simple at all. The referee made a split second decision that they are forced to do at times. Nobody knows if the referee got it right or wrong.

I have a good feeling that HAD the referee allowed Groves to continue, and had George been still a bit wobbly allowing Carl to follow up and connect cleanly, resulting in real damage to Groves, there would be many slating the referee for allowing it to go on. Amongst those many the same people who are slating him for stopping it.

I believe the referee may have jumped in early, but I am sitting at home watching the television. The referee is right up and close and intimately involved. I would rather put my trust in the referee than the armchair viewer as regards a debated and "early" halting to a fight.

So, do you think the ref thought that Grooves was in big trouble?
I don't.

blade1 · 26-11-2013 03:00PM

pac_man wrote: »

Your post is full of assumptions which doesn't translate for a strong argument.

walshb wrote: »

Spot on. Assumptions presented as certainties it seems.

It's my opinion lads.
Didn't realise I'm not supposed to have one.

walshb · 26-11-2013 03:01PM

blade1 wrote: »

So, do you think the ref thought that Grooves was in big trouble?
I don't.

Unless you believe that the referee was dishonest and corrupt then you could only come to that conclusion. How can you know that referee was corrupt? I believe that he aired on the side of caution, that he thought Groves was in trouble enough to warrant him stopping it. That caution/warranting wasn't to your liking or many others' liking, but that has been this sport from day one. There will always be debates and disagreements about certain stoppages.

kryogen · 26-11-2013 03:02PM

blade1 wrote: »

Groves took his foot off the gas so he'd have plenty to last the 12 rounds.
Froch hits him with a few shots, not even clean ones and the ref dived in.
If the ref didn't stop the fight prematurely,it was only a matter of time before Froch got knocked out.
Froch was giving all he had and was lucky he had a ref on his side because he would have been spent after that exchange.
Groves had Froch's number from the first bell.
He had he's number even well before the fight.

I cant answer you any better then this

pac_man wrote: »

Your post is full of assumptions which doesn't translate for a strong argument.

Presenting them as facts doesn't change what they are

walshb · 26-11-2013 03:02PM

blade1 wrote: »

It's my opinion lads.
Didn't realise I'm not supposed to have one.

You seemed to post it is a matter of fact way. Not saying that this is not your entitlement. I just thought it was a bit too certain considering the unknowns.

Henno30 · 26-11-2013 03:17PM

Hadn't seen this before. Released by the Groves camp a while back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpq_ZAhbRwU

kryogen · 26-11-2013 03:34PM

Some funny bits alright but not sure the Groves camp need to be releasing sniping videos at this stage

walshb · 26-11-2013 03:38PM

kryogen wrote: »

Some funny bits alright but not sure the Groves camp need to be releasing sniping videos at this stage

Was it not released before the fight?

nacho libre · 26-11-2013 03:46PM

walshb wrote: »

Was it not released before the fight?

Yes it was.

Carl is a terrible dancer to be fair, he had some cheek slating Calzaghe for involvement in strictly dancing.

walshb · 26-11-2013 04:27PM

I only got to hear Froch after the fight. I have to say, he was spot on. Was very honest. I felt the commentators, particularly Glenn McCrory were a disgrace to be so disparaging towards the referee. Fair enough, disagree with the call, but at least recognise the responsibility and importance and safety aspect concerned in the ring. Froch explained it perfectly when asked was the stoppage fair. Forch's speech after what he went through was exceptional I thought. George was also very impressive when speaking.

kryogen · 26-11-2013 04:30PM

walshb wrote: »

Was it not released before the fight?

Different story then of course

kryogen · 26-11-2013 04:31PM

walshb wrote: »

I only got to hear Froch after the fight. I have to say, he was spot on. Was very honest. I felt the commentators, particularly Glenn McCrory were a disgrace to be so disparaging towards the referee. Fair enough, disagree with the call, but at least recognise the responsibility and importance and safety aspect concerned in the ring. Froch explained it perfectly when asked was the stoppage fair.

That's how I feel, he just came across badly, he tends to come across badly in interviews a lot of course!

walshb · 26-11-2013 04:33PM

kryogen wrote: »

That's how I feel, he just came across badly, he tends to come across badly in interviews a lot of course!

Well, he came across better than I have ever seen before.

Johner · 26-11-2013 04:34PM

Not sure what you were watching walsh, he came across as an arrogant prick after.

walshb · 26-11-2013 04:38PM

Johner wrote: »

Not sure what you were watching walsh, he came across as an arrogant prick after.

How so? What did he say that was so arrogant?

DuckHook · 26-11-2013 04:43PM

Froch was talking out his arse, he was lucky and the ref rescued him. He still couldnt let the interview go by without more lectures about the pre fight hype by groves which clearly had him rattled.

It was a breath of fresh air to hear glenn mcrory speak unedited for a change and call it what it was.

Johner · 26-11-2013 04:47PM

walshb wrote: »

How so? What did he say that was so arrogant?

Something along the lines of he was about to have a couple of free hits on Groves and that he shouldn't be allowed have a free hit on anyone. Did you miss the part where he was getting booed for the shite he was spouting after? He did not come across well at all. He came across as a bad winner. In another interview after he said he thought he started to take over in rounds 7 and 8 and also that he won rounds 2 and 3. I'd have alot more respect for Froch if he admitted what actually happened in the fight but that will never happen.

walshb · 26-11-2013 04:47PM

nacho libre wrote: »

I admire Carl's sheer determination and ability to take a punch, but he was disingenuous to laud the ref' for his decision, when you know well he'd be bucking if the ref had stopped him from continuing on. Groves was right, the image of him being a powerful puncher but chinny is what influenced the ref, .

He was hardly going to say that the referee got it wrong and that George was robbed of the chance to continue. Froch was bang on when he said that it wasn't fair or right to be asking the boxers if the referee made the right call. Bang on.

They're in there beating each other silly, each of them hoping that they make it out alive. Froch hadn't even got changed, showered at that stage. He wan't even close to having seen a replay. Froch must have felt that Groves was in trouble when he felt his hands impacting on George's face, hence Froch was surely going to answer that the referee was right.

I also doubt very much that at the time of the stoppage that the referee was thinking about Groves being chinny. The referee made the call at that exact moment of time based on what he was seeing in Groves.

DuckHook · 26-11-2013 04:47PM

..double post

walshb · 26-11-2013 04:50PM

Johner wrote: »

Something along the lines of he was about to have a couple of free hits on Groves and that he shouldn't be allowed have a free hit on anyone. .

Eh, and what is arrogant about that? He most likely was going the get a free hit/hits? And yes, he shouldn't be allowed, nor should any boxer. If anything that was Carl showing a bloody caring side to such a brutal scenario.

Carl Froch vs George Groves

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