Bitcoin/Litecoin

smemon · 23-11-2013 04:50PM

Value Hunter wrote: »

Yes I firmly believe in this case their easy to predict. 300% increase in 2 weeks with no major change in fundametals in that time period?

The public is only good at labeling bubbles after they pop. The clued in investor knows that when an 'investment' increases 300% with no major change in fundamentals its bubble territory.

Your saying its not a bubble. do you think its a good investment? Or are you going to stay on the fence, and speak from hindsight like so many armchair pundits?

You're looking at it from an investment perspective. Not a technological one. Any new technology or startup faces a huge number of hurdles and if they were publicly traded from day 1, nobody in the right mind would invest with a view to making small but steady money. They wouldn't invest and then complain about volatility.

It'd be a calculated gamble based largely upon instinct and an understanding of the technology and what it's potentially capable of.

If you're betting against bitcoin, what you're betting against is that the technology won't have a future or won't be useful enough to make any significant difference in people's lives.

Prices aside, most developers & tech entrepreneurs are excited about bitcoin because it solves a huge number of problems. They don't care about it's price... they care about the fact that it's a currency that makes it easier, quicker and cheaper to buy and sell things both for consumers and businesses. It also does a bunch of other stuff such as enabling people to set conditions on when, how and why their currency should be transferred (i.e. i can agree to pay you back a $1000 loan paid in 4 installments released on certain dates)... that's a pretty weak example, but it's potential uses are mind boggling...

You're currently interacting with technology that once upon a time was labelled as niche or experimental or idealistic and that would never go mainstream... would you have invested in tcp / ip, http or email? probably not... most people wouldn't have because at the time of their creation / introduction, nobody could have imagined how we use them today... and that's bitcoin in a nutshell - a gamble on the technology being super useful in the future. All technologies are volatile in the sense they grow quickly, die quickly and usually solve and create lots of problems at the same time. The difference with bitcoin is that it's basically a very new technology on a stock exchange so traditional investors are losing their minds when they see it falls and rises 50% in a week or a few hours.

KyussBishop · 23-11-2013 07:21PM

There will never be any serious adaptation of Bitcoin as an economy-wide transactional currency while it's this volatile. Volatility is exactly what a stable economy based on trade wants to avoid.

Companies and consumers also have to pay taxes, and this is what grounds the currencies that get used for trading (depending on location and local currency), and this is still the case for business online (outside of black markets) - Bitcoin isn't presently providing any gains over this, just volatility and other drawbacks.

If it's going to be a useful currency for actual transactions involving real goods, it has a long way to go, and its current volatility doesn't speak in its favour.

alanceltic · 23-11-2013 07:57PM

smemon wrote: »

If you're betting against bitcoin, what you're betting against is that the technology won't have a future or won't be useful enough to make any significant difference in people's lives.

Not strictly true, there are so many other factors to consider such as the trading environment, politics, external forces, and more importantly competition, never underestimate the strength of a new entrant (or a pre existing one) to come along and simply do it better or cheaper. Bitcoin has first mover advantage but there have been many a new tech company that didn't or couldn't monetise a great concept.

p0wp0w · 23-11-2013 09:59PM

alanceltic wrote: »

Not strictly true, there are so many other factors to consider such as the trading environment, politics, external forces, and more importantly competition, never underestimate the strength of a new entrant (or a pre existing one) to come along and simply do it better or cheaper. Bitcoin has first mover advantage but there have been many a new tech company that didn't or couldn't monetise a great concept.

There is no "tech company" here.
Look at historical data on open source software and services.

alb · 23-11-2013 11:31PM

Some people speculating on bitcoin as if it's a company stock here. Buying bitcoin is not like buying hotmail or gmail, it's more like buying a part of the invention of email itself. Of course, email as an invention didn't consist of a limited resource so the analogy ends there. So in another way Bitcoin is like buying gold when most of the world has never heard of it or doesn't understand what it is.

Bitcoin success and utility depends on the network effect, the more users there are the more useful it is. Some products by tech companies also behave in this way - facebook, twitter, many google services... when were these companies formed? what's their market cap now? how much year on year growth in value did they see to reach those market caps in just a few years? Anytime they grew by 1000% percent was it a bubble that popped?

The difference between these companies and Bitcoin is that most of the growth was before the IPO, so there was no share price to actually value the growth in a chartable way. Bitcoin's effective IPO was on day one, anyone mining early or buying early had the chance to see the usual gains that tech network effect products usually see before IPO.

But anyway, I'm not going to try anymore to convince investors just looking for a quick turnaround. I got interested in Bitcoin (more generally decentralised crypto-currency) as a revolutionary invention for the good of everyone more than for trying to make a quick buck. We have no idea yet the amazing things people will build upon this invention of a globally secure public asset register which works in a trustless network, it's still only beginning.

PS have the goldbugs seen this: http://igolder.com/

p0wp0w · 24-11-2013 05:22PM

alb wrote: »

But anyway, I'm not going to try anymore to convince investors just looking for a quick turnaround. I got interested in Bitcoin (more generally decentralised crypto-currency) as a revolutionary invention for the good of everyone more than for trying to make a quick buck. We have no idea yet the amazing things people will build upon this invention of a globally secure public asset register which works in a trustless network, it's still only beginning.

Agreed and that's why I am an active contributor to the protocol.
The sooner those people come and go the better.

gordongekko · 24-11-2013 05:27PM

alb wrote: »

But anyway, I'm not going to try anymore to convince investors just looking for a quick turnaround. I got interested in Bitcoin (more generally decentralised crypto-currency) as a revolutionary invention for the good of everyone more than for trying to make a quick buck. We have no idea yet the amazing things people will build upon this invention of a globally secure public asset register which works in a trustless network, it's still only beginning.

[/url]

oh please tell me more about your background in supporting revolutionary inventions for the good of everyone

AtomicHorror · 25-11-2013 09:44AM

Value Hunter wrote: »

Yes I firmly believe in this case their easy to predict. 300% increase in 2 weeks with no major change in fundametals in that time period?

Change in utility: Baidu, the 5th largest website in the world, started to accept BTC as a currency. Since that is the intended function of BTC, I'd call that a major change in fundamentals.

Perhaps not a fundamental but... change in security: US Senate Committee On Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs advises against interference with BTC, reducing the probability that the US government will attempt to curtail use of BTC in the coming years.

Value Hunter wrote: »

The public is only good at labelling bubbles after they pop. The clued in investor knows that when an 'investment' increases 300% with no major change in fundamentals its bubble territory.

Let's say you're right, and there's been no change in fundamentals- how accurate is that prediction method, historically? Does the bubble always burst once there's been a 300% increase at some timepoint? Does 300% represent a 50% probability of collpase? What if there's only a 250% increase?

What's the false positive rate of this prediction method?

I'm asking genuinely, because if there's a cast iron method for detecting bubbles, or even a way to detect them with 50% accuracy, that's incredibly useful.

Value Hunter wrote: »

Your saying its not a bubble.

Read my post again. You even quoted what I said. I'm not saying that it is not a bubble, but I don't know that it is either. I think that whatever happens this year, bubble or not, is not why many people speculate. They're in it for 5 years time, or 10.

Value Hunter wrote: »

do you think its a good investment? Or are you going to stay on the fence, and speak from hindsight like so many armchair pundits?

I think it's a positive expectation bet in the long term, good enough?

Mint Aero · 25-11-2013 01:15PM

bur wrote: »

You can buy bitcons on virwox using paypal.

I signed up for Virwox, traded EUR to SLL to BTC, transferred half TO BTC-E and half to my wallet. It said "Your withdrawal request has been received. However, a manual step is required before it can be completed.
While most Bitcoin withdrawals are processed instantly, we manually check some of them for security reasons (for example of new accounts). They will be processed within 48 hours. You will receive an email confirmation when the withdrawal has been processed"

This was 40 hours ago for and still waiting, anyone else have to wait this long?

AtomicHorror · 25-11-2013 09:40PM

Mint Aero wrote: »

I signed up for Virwox, traded EUR to SLL to BTC, transferred half TO BTC-E and half to my wallet. It said "Your withdrawal request has been received. However, a manual step is required before it can be completed.
While most Bitcoin withdrawals are processed instantly, we manually check some of them for security reasons (for example of new accounts). They will be processed within 48 hours. You will receive an email confirmation when the withdrawal has been processed"

This was 40 hours ago for and still waiting, anyone else have to wait this long?

Haven't used Virwox, so can only comment on withdrawing BTC from Mt.Gox which is more or less immediate. Not instant, but less than 30 minutes. If they say 48 hours, and I can't see why they need to take that long, then I guess you need to wait another 8 hours and then get on to their support people. To be honest, I can't imagine why security checks would need to be done on BTC withdrawals.

Mint Aero · 25-11-2013 10:18PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Haven't used Virwox, so can only comment on withdrawing BTC from Mt.Gox which is more or less immediate. Not instant, but less than 30 minutes. If they say 48 hours, and I can't see why they need to take that long, then I guess you need to wait another 8 hours and then get on to their support people. To be honest, I can't imagine why security checks would need to be done on BTC withdrawals.

I got it bang on the 48th hr. I hope it's faster next time

ToxicPaddy · 26-11-2013 12:41PM

Decent article on Bitcoin from Wired.com

Linky

frisbeeface · 27-11-2013 03:48PM

Should pass the $1000 mark on mtgox today

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/mtgox/USD

Roonbox · 27-11-2013 05:21PM

Litecoin going Parabolic for the last week..

Why didn't I get into this experiment when it first caught my eye at $2

PearlLedbetter · 27-11-2013 05:46PM

Hi all,

I have been looking into dipping my toes into the litecoin world and I've been researching a lot over the past few weeks. I considered mining but to be honest I don't feel I know enough about it to make it worthwhile for myself. I would like to invest some money and buy a few coins though.

BTC-E looks like the best place to trade litecoins at the moment. Putting euro in there though seems difficult. Has anyone managed to put euro in there? If so, how and what were your experiences lik?

Does anyone have any other suggestions on how or where to buy litecoin?

Sorry for all the questions, I just feel the majority of the information online is coming from the US and I would love to hear how Irish people are getting on.

Thanks in advance

gouche · 27-11-2013 06:11PM

Jesus, just checking Litecoin there.
Was only around $2 when I last checked - up to $23 now.

Was going to put in at $2 but decided against it:o

What are people's opinions on it?
It seems to be getting a lot of attention at the minute and possibly in a position to ride the buzz being generated by Bitcoin?

Roonbox · 27-11-2013 06:40PM

gouche wrote: »

Jesus, just checking Litecoin there.
Was only around $2 when I last checked - up to $23 now.

Was going to put in at $2 but decided against it:o

What are people's opinions on it?
It seems to be getting a lot of attention at the minute and possibly in a position to ride the buzz being generated by Bitcoin?

Its a powertrain that cannot last, those that are in should count their blessings and consider liquidating soon in my opinion.

Mint Aero · 27-11-2013 07:33PM

Bought in at 8 euro, I'm happy anyways.

Mint Aero · 27-11-2013 07:40PM

PearlLedbetter wrote: »

Hi all,

I have been looking into dipping my toes into the litecoin world and I've been researching a lot over the past few weeks. I considered mining but to be honest I don't feel I know enough about it to make it worthwhile for myself. I would like to invest some money and buy a few coins though.

BTC-E looks like the best place to trade litecoins at the moment. Putting euro in there though seems difficult. Has anyone managed to put euro in there? If so, how and what were your experiences lik?

Does anyone have any other suggestions on how or where to buy litecoin?

Sorry for all the questions, I just feel the majority of the information online is coming from the US and I would love to hear how Irish people are getting on.

Thanks in advance

I used VirWox to trade EUR to SLL to BTC using my Paypal.
Then transferred the bitcoins from VirWox to BTC-E (took 48hrs to transfer first time, speeds up thereafter)
Then bought Litecoins on BTC-E with it.

I tried to setup mining, got nowhere with it.

Roonbox · 27-11-2013 08:02PM

Mint Aero wrote: »

I used VirWox to trade EUR to SLL to BTC using my Paypal.
Then transferred the bitcoins from VirWox to BTC-E (took 48hrs to transfer first time, speeds up thereafter)
Then bought Litecoins on BTC-E with it.

I tried to setup mining, got nowhere with it.

I actually bought 30 yesterday at 20, think I may well today. It was purely speculative, I know this momentum cannot last.

smemon · 27-11-2013 09:30PM

gouche wrote: »

Jesus, just checking Litecoin there.
Was only around $2 when I last checked - up to $23 now.

Was going to put in at $2 but decided against it:o

What are people's opinions on it?
It seems to be getting a lot of attention at the minute and possibly in a position to ride the buzz being generated by Bitcoin?

The difference between Bitcoin's price and Litecoin's price is that the Bitcoin price is due to actual media exposure... people are talking about it... Richard Branson is accepting it, the Chinese are using it as a form of savings etc...

What has made Litecoin's price rocket in tandem with Bitcoin's? Nothing. Nothing at all has changed. It's not like a big merchant is now accepting litecoin or that it's featured on Chinese state TV... it's purely speculation and whilst it's absolutely tempting, it's a much riskier investment than Bitcoin imo...

From a technical standpoint, the only difference with it is that it's a bit quicker at processing transactions but that's pretty much it. Even their official project homepage struggles to list the benefits over Bitcoin...

PearlLedbetter · 28-11-2013 10:17AM

Mint Aero wrote: »

I used VirWox to trade EUR to SLL to BTC using my Paypal.
Then transferred the bitcoins from VirWox to BTC-E (took 48hrs to transfer first time, speeds up thereafter)
Then bought Litecoins on BTC-E with it.

I tried to setup mining, got nowhere with it.

Thanks for the reply. I might try that method so to buy some coins. Hopefully I can get money into BTC-E ASAP. As of 5 minutes ago LTC was trading at 31 euro :eek:

sReq | uTeK · 28-11-2013 06:40PM

PearlLedbetter wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I might try that method so to buy some coins. Hopefully I can get money into BTC-E ASAP. As of 5 minutes ago LTC was trading at 31 euro :eek:

New trader here, how long to setup a BTC-E account? Can I buy 50 EURO worth of BTC and transfer that to LTC ?

hatrickpatrick · 28-11-2013 10:21PM

BTC-E doesn't seem to accept any methods of payment I'm familiar with, anyone know a way of buying Litecoins either by credit card, bank transfer or Paypal without the added hassle of setting up a new account on a payment service you won't use for anything else?

Roonbox · 28-11-2013 10:32PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

BTC-E doesn't seem to accept any methods of payment I'm familiar with, anyone know a way of buying Litecoins either by credit card, bank transfer or Paypal without the added hassle of setting up a new account on a payment service you won't use for anything else?

Only way to buy Litecoins at the moment is to first buy some Bitcoins and then trade

hatrickpatrick · 28-11-2013 10:44PM

Roonbox wrote: »

Only way to but Litecoins at the moment is to first buy some Bitcoins and then trade

Ah. Instant risk I see with that is that by the time the bitcoin transfer comes through, Litecoin could have crashed and be worth far less than when one committed to buying it

sReq | uTeK · 28-11-2013 11:20PM

Roonbox wrote: »

Only way to buy Litecoins at the moment is to first buy some Bitcoins and then trade

a bitcoin costs 1k can you purchase 100 quid worth of btc or do u have to buy all

murrayp4 · 28-11-2013 11:26PM

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

a bitcoin costs 1k can you purchase 100 quid worth of btc or do u have to buy all

You can but €1, €2.50, or €100 worth of bitcoin, any amount really.

sReq | uTeK · 28-11-2013 11:47PM

murrayp4 wrote: »

You can but €1, €2.50, or €100 worth of bitcoin, any amount really.

thanks, cant seem to buy on BTC-E any tips
sorry i see you need to xfer with sepa, is 2k the minimum deposit

safetyboy · 29-11-2013 12:10AM

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

thanks, cant seem to buy on BTC-E any tips
sorry i see you need to xfer with sepa, is 2k the minimum deposit

https://www.virwox.com/index.php?drgn=1

buy SLL then trade to BTC, takes 48 hours, or try other area's if you are willing to hand out cash to a stranger https://localbitcoins.com/

Bitcoin/Litecoin

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