Why are the British so anti Europe?

georgesstreet wrote: »

Renegotiation is not on the cards, and the only way to renegotiate is to invoke article 50. Or that's my understanding as it currently stands.

The Prime Minister does not appear to share that understanding as that is what he prefers.

georgesstreet wrote: »

Your doubts are your own. Of course no one is going to support a referendum now, that would be preposterous,

A minority within parliament did just that.

georgesstreet wrote: »

The whole position is to have one in the future as an attempt to put pressure on the EU in the meantime.

Again a minority position within parliament.

georgesstreet wrote: »

As you ask, it is not at all odd that the UK is to be asked if it wants to be ruled from Brussels or London, which is what they will be asked. I dont imagine the ballot paper will put it in the terms you suggest.

Or in other words, the UK electorate will be denied the opportunity to make democratic decisions on whether or not to opt-in to Schengen etc.

In other words, Parliament's democratic decisions are only "undemocratic" when they don't support the Euro-sceptic position but should not be put to the UK electorate otherwise.

georgesstreet wrote: »

This thread is about the UK and how the UK citizens are so anti-europe. While your views on the irish governments use of taxpayers money are interesting, they are not that relevant in a thread about the UK.

*You* brought Ireland into this part of the discussion.

georgesstreet wrote: »

I don't make this thread personal and that you want to call me names here and try to make it personal is really your business. However, the irony of you patronising me by telling me I am patronising "us" did makes me smile.

'Patronising' was indeed the word I used.

Here's your text again:

In Ireland, it seems to be different, and there seems to be little concern for the numbers of East Europeans who come to Ireland as “benefit tourists” and who benefit from a generous welfare system, the costs of which are paid by the Irish people.

It's clear to me that you're explicitly criticising Irish people for being somehow slack or indifferent on 'benefit tourism' and to the 'numbers of East Europeans' who come here. It's also clear to me that this is an incitement, however bland, against EU citizens who are entitled to seek work here, and who in the main do.

I'm calling *you* on your statement, as you are the person making it. If you see it as personalising affairs, that's your problem.

georgesstreet wrote: »

I've already said that I am free to put whatever I want in my own newspaper, within the law. Perhaps you missed where I said that.

Not at all but that is a fundamental shift on your previous position. Should parliament follow the example of the US on media ownership, where majority ownership is restricted to (solely) US citizens, Mr Murdoch would probably not be able to own UK papers much less publish what he wants. And that would be a fairly fundamental democratic limit on the freedom of his actions.

Hi evryone. I am Phoenix One UK, and I am an anti EU activist in UK. Please note the anti EU as opposed to anti Europe. The two are far from same thing.

Please note following I posted within another forum that I blieve relevant to debate here, of which I am the auther.


Let us recap and expand on what cannot be disputed.

1. The EU is a Custom Union, as European Commission’s own web site clearly states.
2. The EU is a single customs union with a single trade policy and tariff.
3. The EU comprises of 28 members, including UK.
4. There are over 200 countries in the world.
5. Tariffs are usually applied to imports with world not exports.
6. Where imports exceed exports for any country then that country has a trade deficit.
7. The UK has always had a trade deficit with EU since joining the Common Market in 1973.
8. Most goods originate from world not EU.

Before continuing, I should mention that I once operated my own business in Australia as managing director of Soft-Talk, and to quote Paul Turtan of ABC radio, “Soft-Talk is in a league of its own”. Further, Soft-Talk also achieved acquiring one of the best customer reputations in entire country, and exported its products on world stage. Further, it achieved selling over 100,000 floppy diskettes packed with software in just one quarter at a time when Australia was in its worst recession in recorded history. Note software then was tax except, and computer hardware dealers were also using Soft-Talk’s product as bundle. Why? Software was tax except, but hardware was not. Hence, the dealers added the software product to reduce hardware prices. This resulted in reduction of tax, which made the hardware cheaper for consumers. Further, Soft-Talk WAS the competition. Nobody could compete. Not even Tandy who were big in Australia. Any business must strive to compete within any competitive market. If they cannot compete then they will likely fail.

It is clear that some here still do not understand or are so fanatical with EU that they want to bury the truth, assuming they are not ignorant on issue (note ignorance is not an insult. Everyone is ignorant on number of issues until educated otherwise).

Let me further simplify the issue. Most goods in EU are imported from world. The world includes countries like USA, China, India, and Japan to name but a few. Most were not made in EU, or only partly made in EU. This is a very important point to grasp.

A product imported from world to France (for example) incurs an import tariff. The tariff is paid, and the product is then moved and sold elsewhere in EU with costs passed to consumer, including the tariff paid. People buying the product in UK pay no direct tariff because the tariff had already been paid in France (for example) and added to end price. People paid a tariff on import whether they knew it or not. Being invisible does not change tariff charges were added to prices consumers pay. Just because people do not see it does not mean it does not exists. It is legal under EU law, and it could be argued quite rightly that the EU itself is restricting trade with its single trade policy and tariff.

Note the line “The EU is a single customs union with a single trade policy and tariff” was acquired directly from European Commission web site.

« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 14:49:07 by Phoenix One UK »

SoulandForm wrote: »

Historically the UK mainland has had a much better record on civil liberties than other European countries though this has been under attack starting with Thatcher and if anything excellerating under Blair- continued membership of the EU would see that noble tradition totally crumble with the introduction of ID cards, abolition of innocent until proven guilty, etc. Some things are a lot more valuable than money.

I do think, or at least strongly hope, that the UK will be politely asked to leave in the near future. Its southern Ireland that Im much more worried about- though the UK leaving could well make the elite here rethink their dangerous course.

You raise a number of issues here, and I cannot comment on ireland for number of reasons, the most obvious being, the future and direction of Ireland is matter for Irish people to decide.

What attracted me to this site was mention of the push by British people to have an in/out referendum on UK EU membership. Something I, for one, have been fighting for since 1997. Others have faught longer than that.