50th Anniversary of Kennedy Assassination

Saganist wrote: »

I only started reading the Warren Report and to be honest, after only reading the Conclusion section at the start it seems to me that the testimony of one man ( Brennan ) sends the report into a spin of nailing the shooting on LHO.

It seems extremely poorly written thus far and I can see why so many people describe it as flawed.

I'll continue reading, but would really like to know why eyewitness testimony stating that a shot was fired from the grassy knoll was not even considered. Also, I really don't know how they can come to the conclusion that the fatal head shot was shot from behind Kennedy, looking at the Zapruder film it seems obvious to me that the shot came from the front.

Also. The number of shots ( 3 ) seems to me to too low to cause the number of hits. i.e. Kennedy in the head, the magic bullet ( which is possible to cause all those injuries ) but also there was a bullet hole in the windscreen as well as a superficial hole in the car, as well as the chap that was hit by a ricochet at the triple underpass. To me that adds up to more than 3 shots and if the head shot came from the front then there was a second rifle.

I'm am not one for conspiracy theories but the JFK assassination just seems so odd. There are numerous unanswered questions if you ask me and I feel that there must have been some sort of cover up.

Didn't the magic bullet make some injury that wouldn't be possible, as if the bullet stopped in mid air and turned on it's own axis. I definitely don't think Oswald was alone, maybe not to the degree of some of the bigger theories but the physics of it don't make sense for it to be a single rifleman. And wasn't Oswald supposed to be a pretty mediocre shot?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

people do realise we're talking about the american state here right? the one that couldn't keep watergate a secret and the one that is currently going through a very public and very embarrasing revealing of it's global spying program?

you think these people would be able to keep something like this a secret for 50 years? seriously?

Managed to fake the moon landings though :pac:

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

people do realise we're talking about the american state here right? the one that couldn't keep watergate a secret and the one that is currently going through a very public and very embarrasing revealing of it's global spying program?

you think these people would be able to keep something like this a secret for 50 years? seriously?

They couldn't keep watergate a secret. E Howard Hunt was involved heavily in that scandal.

And.

He also "confessed" to being involved in the JFK assassination. Makes one wonder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Howard_Hunt

krudler wrote: »

Yeah so a bullet that went through two people multiple times was found in near mint condition outside the body? nah, it's the stuff like that which points to a conspiracy. I must watch JFK again, it's movie with a lot of liberties/theories and heresay but it's a great film. Donald Sutherland's monologue about the events around the assassination is amazing.

That and the Zapruder film, which to me shows that the head shot came from the front, not the rear.

I hate conspiracies, however, JFK is one such event where the official report has multiple holes in it.

Frito wrote: »

22nd November 1963 - JFK shot
23rd November 1963 - Dr. Who appeared


Just sayin'.

22nd November 1963 - JFK shot The Beatles second album - With the Beatles released.

Saganist wrote: »

Oswald was a grade 2 marksman. He was a really good shot.

The magic bullet seems to good to be true alright but it is possible that one bullet could make those injuries.

of course it is.....

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

You think the US has no secrets? Come on man.

For a conspiracy to work, the following would have to have happened:

Someone must have perfectly imitated Oswald's handwriting on the mail order for the rifle and revolver from the sporting goods magazine and the handwriting experts who verified that the handwriting was genuine must have been involved in the plot.

Ruth Paine who told Oswald about the job at the Texas School Book Depository and his boss Roy Truly who gave him the job must have been in on the plot and must have known about JFK's visit to Dallas BEFORE Kennedy even thought of going there.

Someone must have taken pictures of a man with a rifle and revolver in the backyard of Oswald's former residence and superimposed his face onto the photo and forced his wife to lie about taking the photos and sent a photo to George De Mohrenschilt with the message written by Oswald's handwriting imposter on the back and must have known it would only be discovered in the 1970s and convinced De Mohrenschilt to blow his brains out with a shotgun.

Someone must have forced Wesley Buell Frazier to lie about the curtain rods package or else Frazier himself was involved in the conspiracy to transport the rifle to the Book Depository.

Someone must have sneaked into the building, stacked the boxes around the 6th floor window, placed the paper bag with the fibers from a blanket in the Paine garage, planted three spent hulls fired by the rifle, planted the rifle and planted Oswald's work clipboard behind some boxes and made sure Oswald's shirt fibres were between the metal buttplate and wooden stock of the rifle.

Someone must have pressed Oswald's palm onto the dissembled rifle barrel and someone must have left Oswald's jacket behind in the Book Depository.

They must have done all this without Oswald or the cops who investigated the crime suspecting a thing - UNLESS the cops were all intimately involved in the plot as well.

Someone decided that instead of simply exposing Kennedy as a sex maniac who liked to screw prostitutes in the White House swimming pool and force him to resign in disgrace, they instead hired contract killers and placed one of them behind a picket fence within feet of cops and witnesses - unless they cops and "witnesses" were also in on the plot - and others on rooftops and in windows which risked them being seen by the occupants of the buildings or cops and witnesses in the streets below.

Some how these world class riflemen fired 6 shots but somehow wounded Connally five times and wounded Kennedy three times with only one kill shot to the head.

Someone planted the bullet at Parkland hospital somehow knowing that Connally would be wounded in the back, chest, wrist and leg.

Someone hired Ruby to kill Oswald and Ruby was so sure he would be on time to kill Oswald in the underground car lot that he wire money to an ex-stripper at 11.17 from a Western Union and arrived in time to kill Oswald at 11.21.

And in 50 years since the events of that day nobody grew a conscience or saw $ signs and thought to leak the incredible plot to the press.

A sane logical rational person would have to conclude that a conspiracy is simply impossible.

Laois_Man wrote: »

The problem with this is, I don't think there's very many so called conspiracy theorists who claim Oswald had nothing to do with it. Did he act alone is the question they ask.

Exactly, I don't think he was alone, maybe not to the degree of having everyone in Washington involved either but definitely not just himself. Too much coincidence and shady stuff after it.

Laois_Man wrote: »

The problem with this is, I don't think there's very many so called conspiracy theorists who claim Oswald had nothing to do with it. Did he act alone is the question they ask.

I think I have demolished thoroughly any possibility of a conspiracy.

Just how many people would have to be involved?

If Oswald was involved and then framed by his co-conspirators don't you think they would have made sure Oswald was found with a .38 bullet through the head with the revolver in his hand in the 6th floor or they would have had a car waiting outside to pick him up and drive him to his death?

Why would they arrange to have another noob like Ruby kill him on live TV?

Why couldn't they have made it easier on themselves by having him hang himself with a bedsheet in his cell?

If you even skim the surface the conspiracy theories just crumple apart.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

There is not a shred of evidence of a conspiracy.

Nothing.

Never in the history of world has there been a plot in which some evidence somewhere came to light.

The only thing the conspiracy theorist can up with is fabrications, lies, fantasy and half baked nonsense.

Oswald had no associations with anybody. He had NO friends. He had no education. He worked in a series of dead end jobs. His naive young wife had finally seen the light and was on the verge of leaving him with the kids. He had barely a cent to his name.

The only skill this loser had was to shoot with a rifle.

Never heard of the US house of representative investigation into it no?

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Oswald had no associations with anybody.

That is just simply not true, Balaclava. Oswald had some very interesting contacts and associations. Associations and contacts which go completely against the official stance portrayed about him. The official line wants people to believe Oswald was a supposed militant 'Leftist/Communist" but within Oswald's own private address book (which was taken at the time of his arrest) are the names and private addresses and private phone numbers of some very prominent American right wing fascists whom Oswald had correspondence with.

People such as Daniel Burros, leader of a then New York Ku Klux Klan chapter and member of the American Nazi Party, Oswald even had the private address and private phone number of George Lincoln Rockwell - The fuhrer of the American Nazi Party at the time. Oswald also had the use of an office at 544 Camp Street/531 Lafayette place, New Orleans, a building controlled by career FBI employee Guy Banister who ran a vicious, violent, right wing, anti communist operation at the same address ( the exact same address which was found stamped on the bogus 'Fair play for Cuba Committee' leaflets that were distributed by Oswald).

The American Nazi Party used the building at 544 Camp Street/531 Lafayette place for meetings/political/propaganda ops and it stands to reason this is where Oswald met and held the private correspondence with these right wing, anti communist fascists that is to be found in his own address book.

But the official line on Oswald is that he was a pro-Cuban, anti fascist, militant leftist, communist. Why then does Oswald have correspondence and associations with the highest ranking right wing fascists within the United States? How does Oswald, the "leftist/communist", manage to conduct highly visible 'anti fascist, leftist and communist' activities from the same building and right under the nose of some of the most vicious and violent fascist right wing thugs in the country mixed with employees of the FBI??

buried wrote: »

People such as Daniel Burros, leader of a then New York Ku Klux Klan chapter and member of the American Nazi Party

Interesting that you bring up the KKK.

Joseph Adams Milteer, who was the director of the Dixie Klan of Georgia, had been threatening JFK as recently as 13 days before the assassination, describing to Miami police informant William Somersett how JFK would be shot - by a high powered rifle out of a window. Furthermore, this information was passed to the secret service due to the fact that Kennedy was visiting Florida less than one week later - but it was ignored while planning Kennedy's trip around Texas which was to follow that. Amazingly, Milteer is present in photographs of the motorcade passing through Dallas on the day of the assassination.

http://theintelligence.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/kennedy_milteer_469.jpg

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

There is not a shred of evidence of a conspiracy.

Nothing.

Never in the history of world has there been a plot in which some evidence somewhere came to light.

The only thing the conspiracy theorist can up with is fabrications, lies, fantasy and half baked nonsense.

Oswald had no associations with anybody. He had NO friends. He had no education. He worked in a series of dead end jobs. His naive young wife had finally seen the light and was on the verge of leaving him with the kids. He had barely a cent to his name.

The only skill this loser had was to shoot with a rifle.

This is where the conspiracy theory comes in to play. Oswald was the perfect model for brainwashing, manipulation etc. By all accounts he was a recluse & with little or no education he would have been very easy to brainwash or hypnotise or whatever you wish to call it.

I'm not suggesting it was an inside job but if the US government really did do away with Marilyn Monroe then who is to say that they didn't kill JFK?

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

There is not a shred of evidence of a conspiracy.

Nothing.

Never in the history of world has there been a plot in which some evidence somewhere came to light.

The first two sentences are simply untrue. There is plenty of evidence to suggest a possible conspiracy.

Your third sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and is also untrue.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

The House Select Committee On Assassinations found no evidence of a conspiracy.

They agreed that Oswald fired three shots and both bullets that struck Kennedy came from Oswald's gun.

No photographic or film evidence, no weapon or shell cases or any other evidence was ever found that indicated a second shooter.

The only "evidence" they had to go on that contradicted the Warren Commission was a police dictabelt recording of a police radio which was left on and recorded four sound impulses which supposedly are four shots.

It has since been proven that the motorcycle was NOT in Dealey Plaza at the time of the murder of the President and analysis of the four "shots" do not match test gunshots.

This is the testimony of Harold Norman who was in the open 5th floor window directly beneath Oswald's 6th floor window.

He heard three shots, the sound of the rifle bolt mechanism and the sounds of the shell casings on the floor above.

The House of Representative Select Committee on Assasinations concluded that Kennedy
was very likely assassinated as a result
of a conspiracy. Most of the hearings were done behind closed doors and 50,000 documents are still locked away under federal seal to this day. This despite a US Congress law passed over 20 years ago in setting up the Assassination Records Review Board to have all documents disclosed (what's still being hidden and why?). So don't pretend to know fully upon what basis they arrived at their conclusion because you don't actually know.

There are many many pieces of evidence (yes photographic, video and witness accounts) which remain unanswered. Are you trying to coax a list from someone?

While you're correct that the dictabelt recording evidence was later challenged in 1982, do you know that in 2001, a government scientist concluded the HSCA finding of a second shooter was correct and that the 1982 study was flawed. It's the same with virtually EVERY single aspect of the assasination evidence. It's all challenged and all the challenges are challenged also (including the testimony of the 3 guys who were on the 5th floor). It would put your head in a never ending spin