The Self pitying garda...

robindch · 21-11-2013 12:13PM

Riskymove wrote: »

the purpose of many of the role allowances is to make up for the fact that these jobs would have limited or no overtime compared to a regular Garda role

A little bit of overtime is fine, but from the figures above, it seems that gardai expect to be paid significant amounts of overtime (I'm assuming at a higher pay rate?), and if they don't get overtime, that the amount that they would have been paid in overtime is made up instead by invented "allowances" of one kind or another.

The system seems quite broken to me. I work in the private sector, I don't earn overtime, there are none of the many different "allowances", and if I was running a company that provided those kind of byzantine, weird allowances, well, I'd be looking to cut them out entirely and rejiggle the pay structure so that people could be paid a straight, comprehensible wage for the work they do

I mean, in all fairness, what on earth is a "locomotion allowance" and why does it depend so much on engine size? Sounds to me like a joke out of a book by Chekov or Gogol.

Khannie · 21-11-2013 12:27PM

astrofool wrote: »

Ah now, if this was the case, the list of people applying to be a gard (or nurse for that matter) would not be much much greater than the available positions.

Lots of people want to be a gard, we can reduce the pay and still fill the positions twice over.

Surely you don't think they're all in it for the money?

My friends fella is a guard and I hear some of the things he goes through. It's a tough, tough job.

AGC · 21-11-2013 12:34PM

All you have to do is look at the s**te they had to put up with at Newlands Cross this morning and you'll see the good job they do.

I am sure anyone who has been burgled, mugged etc... will appreciate the work of the Gardaí unlike some of the tripe on here.

leonidas83 · 21-11-2013 12:36PM

The level of pay for Gards in this country is ridiculous.

Considering the level of serious crime they have to contend with, the job is relatively low risk in comparison to other countries.

The last fatal shooting before Adrian Donohue this year was Jerry McCabe in 1996. 17 years of a difference.

Check out the pay rates in the US & the UK & then also see what they have to contend with on a regular basis. The mortality rates of their gards makes for grim reading.

For two years training & a few weeks down in Templemore, an average wage of 65k is not bad is it?

As for the Gards or people that think they deserve it because they have to put up with the scum in our society.They shouldn't have gone down the road of applying to be a gard in the first place if they didn't think they could handle it. Simple as that. The notion that we should be paying them excessive rates of pay for just doing their job is a farce. This is a culture & mentality that needs to be extinguished throughout the public sector.

This job because of the ridiculous pay has attracted a type of gard more interested in filling his own pocket than doing anything constructive about any serious crime he comes across in this country.

For years there has been an embargo on young people who could potentially see this line of work as a vocation & are willing to do the work for less. But were we hiring them, no, we as a country were lining the pockets of a lot of gards instead who thought they were going to get rich quick from our property boom & are now facing serious difficulties. Well, tough ****, liquidate your assets, pay what you owe to the banks & take your pay cuts.

Also, cant remember the last time I saw a gard in this country when he wasnt standing at a checkpoint waiting to screw over some motorist who has contend with crazy fuel prices, some of the highest motor tax rates in the world & a joke of an ntc system. And lets be honest about it, the main reason why 60% of our fuel is taxed & motor tax rates are nearly three times that of the Uk is because we have a government that is trying to balance our budget deficit partly because of their excessive wages in the first place

Great bunch of boys they are altogether

leonidas83 · 21-11-2013 12:44PM

AGC wrote: »

All you have to do is look at the s**te they had to put up with at Newlands Cross this morning and you'll see the good job they do.

I am sure anyone who has been burgled, mugged etc... will appreciate the work of the Gardaí unlike some of the tripe on here.

Stop being ridiculous, anyone who has been burgled, mugged knows exactly what type of job they do most of the time. Lucky to get a call out at all, indifference, no follow up, bad attitude are just some of the things they would have to contend with usually

angelfire9 · 21-11-2013 12:57PM

Ah lads lets have a wee reality check here
I'm married to a cop with 20+ years service
His P60 for last year shows earnings of €46k which includes allowances which are taxable

He works 6x10 hour shifts plus 1hour driving each way so he spends the first of his 4 days off pretty much sleeping to recover

This is the first Christmas in years when he will actually be home on Christmas Day

Normally when he's rostered to work all over Christmas our Christmas dinner will be at 8 o'clock in the evening by which time one or both kids are in bed and he will miss the kids opening their presents as well (mainly cos my kids are lazy sods and won't get up til after 10am to be fair)

In the 15 years I've known him he has been stabbed in the back (and yes he got compensation which was our house deposit)
He's been spat at, slapped, verbally abused, had tyres slashed (and the muppets who did this one did mine too as apparently I'm fair game as well) his car got keyed within a week of him getting it

Because there are so few owner occupied houses in the estate where we live we had some lovely neighbours who's kids OINKED at my eldest when she was outside the house and called her a piglet so she stopped going outside

The "big cheque" where he gets his allowances/Unsocial hours etc is used to pay the bills we go out three times a year (his birthday, my birthday & valentines) that's it!
We both have 04 cars (a fiesta and focus)
Haven't had a holiday in years had to get help from my father to travel abroad for my brothers wedding

All this BS that Gardai have it easy or are overpaid drives me nuts :mad:

Yes we can pay our bills but we are hardly living the life of Reilly :cool:
Remember too that a Garda who falls behind in mortgage or utilities can be disciplined!!!

The hours are a killer for family life never mind a social life

A certain sector of society give Gardaí hell on or off duty and that extends to their families as well which is not something which applies to the average job

The Garda in the story seems to have over extended himself but to be fair Overtime is now non existent thanks to Haddington road lads have to work 30 hours free each year
Pay has been slashed shifts have been changed (for the worst IMHO)

Its probably a grand number for the small % that are single, house sharing with no kids but with a mortgage and family it's not the life I'd choose for my kids

Yes, I knew what it would be like when I married him (I'm a cops daughter) but the job is not what it used to be, it's physically more demanding & dangerous, the cost of living has sky rocketed and the publics attitude to Gardaí has changed
This "Them or Us" mentality between public and private sector workers has to change, most of the country are treading water just about keeping their heads afloat
I don't expect anyone to sympathise but a bit of empathy wouldn't go astray

nelly17 · 21-11-2013 01:05PM

flutered wrote: »

he is welcome to live on my inviladity pension,€193 with falling perks ie add ons, people verbally abuse me telling me how i am a drain in the countrys finances, i was spat on punched etc while working as a store dective, much harder than a gardas wwork, it paid schit money as well, what does he want, pity, everything thats going this goverment took in their austerity budgets, bar theit own wages and perks, look at pics of the cabenit when it was formed, look at a pic of them now, they have in farming parlance throve well, no ivomic was used on them. each one has had their pants and neck size increaced to xxxx. while they preach how well things are.

An you had to put up with Christmas music for 3 months evey year

nelly17 · 21-11-2013 01:06PM

Just to add a little balance here

SEPT 23 1989 · 21-11-2013 01:11PM

angelfire9 wrote: »

Ah lads lets have a wee reality check here
I'm married to a cop with 20+ years service
His P60 for last year shows earnings of €46k which includes allowances which are taxable

He works 6x10 hour shifts plus 1hour driving each way so he spends the first of his 4 days off pretty much sleeping to recover

This is the first Christmas in years when he will actually be home on Christmas Day

Normally when he's rostered to work all over Christmas our Christmas dinner will be at 8 o'clock in the evening by which time one or both kids are in bed and he will miss the kids opening their presents as well (mainly cos my kids are lazy sods and won't get up til after 10am to be fair)

In the 15 years I've known him he has been stabbed in the back (and yes he got compensation which was our house deposit)
He's been spat at, slapped, verbally abused, had tyres slashed (and the muppets who did this one did mine too as apparently I'm fair game as well) his car got keyed within a week of him getting it

Because there are so few owner occupied houses in the estate where we live we had some lovely neighbours who's kids OINKED at my eldest when she was outside the house and called her a piglet so she stopped going outside

The "big cheque" where he gets his allowances/Unsocial hours etc is used to pay the bills we go out three times a year (his birthday, my birthday & valentines) that's it!
We both have 04 cars (a fiesta and focus)
Haven't had a holiday in years had to get help from my father to travel abroad for my brothers wedding

All this BS that Gardai have it easy or are overpaid drives me nuts :mad:

Yes we can pay our bills but we are hardly living the life of Reilly :cool:
Remember too that a Garda who falls behind in mortgage or utilities can be disciplined!!!

The hours are a killer for family life never mind a social life

A certain sector of society give Gardaí hell on or off duty and that extends to their families as well which is not something which applies to the average job

The Garda in the story seems to have over extended himself but to be fair Overtime is now non existent thanks to Haddington road lads have to work 30 hours free each year
Pay has been slashed shifts have been changed (for the worst IMHO)

Its probably a grand number for the small % that are single, house sharing with no kids but with a mortgage and family it's not the life I'd choose for my kids

Yes, I knew what it would be like when I married him (I'm a cops daughter) but the job is not what it used to be, it's physically more demanding & dangerous, the cost of living has sky rocketed and the publics attitude to Gardaí has changed
This "Them or Us" mentality between public and private sector workers has to change, most of the country are treading water just about keeping their heads afloat
I don't expect anyone to sympathise but a bit of empathy wouldn't go astray

thanks for the info

what about his pension at the end of it,lump sum & weekly payment?

Boombastic · 21-11-2013 01:19PM

angelfire9 wrote: »

....

We both have 04 cars (a fiesta and focus)
Haven't had a holiday in years had to get help from my father to travel abroad for my brothers wedding

.......
Yes, I knew what it would be like when I married him (I'm a cops daughter) but the job is not what it used to be, it's physically more demanding & dangerous, the cost of living has sky rocketed and the publics attitude to Gardaí has changed
.....

The pension must be great if he can afford to bring himself and your family abroad on a foreign holiday.

angelfire9 · 21-11-2013 01:22PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

thanks for the info

what about his pension at the end of it,lump sum & weekly payment?

The pension he's paid into for 30 years??
The pension he will most likely only get for 10 years as the life expectancy of retired Gardai is crap?
The lump sum (40-50k that's now going to be taxable) that will go into our mortgage so that when he does retire so that we can live on the €300 odd a week he will be getting?
I suppose we will save the €60 a week that he spends on petrol at the moment
:rolleyes:

angelfire9 · 21-11-2013 01:25PM

Boombastic wrote: »

The pension must be great if he can afford to bring himself and your family abroad on a foreign holiday.

My father you mean I presume?
First off I went on my own no kids or husband
Secondly my parents are independently wealthy thanks to an inheritance my mother received from my grandmother

But hey, well done on spotting one line in my post that made you jump up and down with excitement that Garda pensions are too high

Foxhound38 · 21-11-2013 01:27PM

flutered wrote: »

he is welcome to live on my inviladity pension,€193 with falling perks ie add ons, people verbally abuse me telling me how i am a drain in the countrys finances, i was spat on punched etc while working as a store dective, much harder than a gardas wwork, it paid schit money as well, what does he want, pity, everything thats going this goverment took in their austerity budgets, bar theit own wages and perks, look at pics of the cabenit when it was formed, look at a pic of them now, they have in farming parlance throve well, no ivomic was used on them. each one has had their pants and neck size increaced to xxxx. while they preach how well things are.

Of what little of that I could read without my eyes starting to hurt, the bit about the store detectives having a harder job than Gardai gave me a good giggle. You're taking the pi$$, right?

Boombastic · 21-11-2013 01:31PM

angelfire9 wrote: »

My father you mean I presume?
First off I went on my own no kids or husband
Secondly my parents are independently wealthy thanks to an inheritance my mother received from my grandmother

But hey, well done on spotting one line in my post that made you jump up and down with excitement that Garda pensions are too high

just an observation..
you seem to think the 40-50 grand lumpsum is useless as it will only go to pay off your mortgage and you'll only have 300 a week spending money

as for the rest, have you ever thought of getting classes on managing your money? It seems like your budgetting here and not your income thats the issue

SEPT 23 1989 · 21-11-2013 01:32PM

angelfire9 wrote: »

The pension he's paid into for 30 years??
The pension he will most likely only get for 10 years as the life expectancy of retired Gardai is crap?
The lump sum (40-50k that's now going to be taxable) that will go into our mortgage so that when he does retire so that we can live on the €300 odd a week he will be getting?
I suppose we will save the €60 a week that he spends on petrol at the moment
:rolleyes:

as with all civil and public service pensions what he pays in has no relation to what he will get back,i think your husband will be getting a lot more than 300 a week

try setting up a pension in the private sector where you will receive 400+ a week on retirement and see what you have to put into it

Boombastic · 21-11-2013 01:36PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

as with all civil and public service pensions what he pays in has no relation to what he will get back,i think your husband will be getting a lot more than 300 a week

try setting up a pension in the private sector where you will receive 400+ a week on retirement and see what you have to put into it

Would that include a 40-50 grand lupsum aswell with the private pension?

mattjack · 21-11-2013 01:42PM

leonidas83 wrote: »

The level of pay for Gards in this country is ridiculous.

Considering the level of serious crime they have to contend with, the job is relatively low risk in comparison to other countries.

The last fatal shooting before Adrian Donohue this year was Jerry McCabe in 1996. 17 years of a difference.

Check out the pay rates in the US & the UK & then also see what they have to contend with on a regular basis. The mortality rates of their gards makes for grim reading.

For two years training & a few weeks down in Templemore, an average wage of 65k is not bad is it?

As for the Gards or people that think they deserve it because they have to put up with the scum in our society.They shouldn't have gone down the road of applying to be a gard in the first place if they didn't think they could handle it. Simple as that. The notion that we should be paying them excessive rates of pay for just doing their job is a farce. This is a culture & mentality that needs to be extinguished throughout the public sector.

This job because of the ridiculous pay has attracted a type of gard more interested in filling his own pocket than doing anything constructive about any serious crime he comes across in this country.

For years there has been an embargo on young people who could potentially see this line of work as a vocation & are willing to do the work for less. But were we hiring them, no, we as a country were lining the pockets of a lot of gards instead who thought they were going to get rich quick from our property boom & are now facing serious difficulties. Well, tough ****, liquidate your assets, pay what you owe to the banks & take your pay cuts.

Also, cant remember the last time I saw a gard in this country when he wasnt standing at a checkpoint waiting to screw over some motorist who has contend with crazy fuel prices, some of the highest motor tax rates in the world & a joke of an ntc system. And lets be honest about it, the main reason why 60% of our fuel is taxed & motor tax rates are nearly three times that of the Uk is because we have a government that is trying to balance our budget deficit partly because of their excessive wages in the first place

Great bunch of boys they are altogether

Hardly makes any difference to the families of deceased how they died , but quite a few more have died in ways other than shooting , Garda Callinan springs to mind as being one of the more horrific deaths , never mind the young Garda mown down in Donegal recently as well two more being hit by a stolen car.

AGC · 21-11-2013 01:47PM

leonidas83 wrote: »

The level of pay for Gards in this country is ridiculous.

Considering the level of serious crime they have to contend with, the job is relatively low risk in comparison to other countries.

The last fatal shooting before Adrian Donohue this year was Jerry McCabe in 1996. 17 years of a difference.

Great bunch of boys they are altogether

I am sure the families of Ciaran Jones, Gary McLoughlin etc... would love to read this post.

Not to mention the number of Gardaí now unable to work due to incidents at work

AGC · 21-11-2013 01:50PM

leonidas83 wrote: »

Stop being ridiculous, anyone who has been burgled, mugged knows exactly what type of job they do most of the time. Lucky to get a call out at all, indifference, no follow up, bad attitude are just some of the things they would have to contend with usually

On the occasion of our own home being burgled they were there within 20 minutes and the forensic lads out the next morning.

I am sure this might be different around other parts of the country

Soft Falling Rain · 21-11-2013 01:50PM

angelfire9 wrote: »

Ah lads lets have a wee reality check here
I'm married to a cop with 20+ years service
His P60 for last year shows earnings of €46k which includes allowances which are taxable

He works 6x10 hour shifts plus 1hour driving each way so he spends the first of his 4 days off pretty much sleeping to recover

This is the first Christmas in years when he will actually be home on Christmas Day

Normally when he's rostered to work all over Christmas our Christmas dinner will be at 8 o'clock in the evening by which time one or both kids are in bed and he will miss the kids opening their presents as well (mainly cos my kids are lazy sods and won't get up til after 10am to be fair)

In the 15 years I've known him he has been stabbed in the back (and yes he got compensation which was our house deposit)
He's been spat at, slapped, verbally abused, had tyres slashed (and the muppets who did this one did mine too as apparently I'm fair game as well) his car got keyed within a week of him getting it

Because there are so few owner occupied houses in the estate where we live we had some lovely neighbours who's kids OINKED at my eldest when she was outside the house and called her a piglet so she stopped going outside

The "big cheque" where he gets his allowances/Unsocial hours etc is used to pay the bills we go out three times a year (his birthday, my birthday & valentines) that's it!
We both have 04 cars (a fiesta and focus)
Haven't had a holiday in years had to get help from my father to travel abroad for my brothers wedding

All this BS that Gardai have it easy or are overpaid drives me nuts :mad:

Yes we can pay our bills but we are hardly living the life of Reilly :cool:
Remember too that a Garda who falls behind in mortgage or utilities can be disciplined!!!

The hours are a killer for family life never mind a social life

A certain sector of society give Gardaí hell on or off duty and that extends to their families as well which is not something which applies to the average job

The Garda in the story seems to have over extended himself but to be fair Overtime is now non existent thanks to Haddington road lads have to work 30 hours free each year
Pay has been slashed shifts have been changed (for the worst IMHO)

Its probably a grand number for the small % that are single, house sharing with no kids but with a mortgage and family it's not the life I'd choose for my kids

Yes, I knew what it would be like when I married him (I'm a cops daughter) but the job is not what it used to be, it's physically more demanding & dangerous, the cost of living has sky rocketed and the publics attitude to Gardaí has changed
This "Them or Us" mentality between public and private sector workers has to change, most of the country are treading water just about keeping their heads afloat
I don't expect anyone to sympathise but a bit of empathy wouldn't go astray

Sounds like your husband has been put through the ringer, and I don't doubt the difficulty of the job.

If the money doesn't sit right with the amount of punishment and stress the person is enduring then maybe it's best to start looking at alternatives. I myself walked away from the social care sector when the stresses got too much for me, and I was walking away with nothing else lined up.

But at the end of the day, you can never put a price on your health and well being (something I think a lot of people don't pay enough attention to). Do you not think it's worrying that you are almost blase when mentioning (what you expect to be) the short life expectancy of your husband once he retires, thanks to the stresses of the job?

Nialler15 · 21-11-2013 01:50PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Naw, I dated him but kept my options open :cool:

Must of found yourself a Sergent??

Larbre34 · 21-11-2013 01:51PM

The guards have been r@ped in the public service cuts. Years of fudging pay deals has meant so much is rated and paid in allowances that should be salary items, that should never have been the case. All you have to look at is their basic pay rates after full service to see how poor it is, who would do the shifts and unpleasant duties for that I ask you? Leaving aside overtime even, by deferring allowances etc ordinary guards are having their take home pay reduced by about 10-15 years of normal increases. It isnt just Guards who took punts on expensive cars and houses that are suffering - any one of them with families and ordinary obligations like child care and schooling, food, running the car, insurance etc is in feeling hardship.

My sister-in-law (Detective Garda) is down 60% in allowances and 40% in salary take home pay, Id challenge anyone at any level of lifestyle to be able to adjust their obligations to deal with those sort of reductions.

Boombastic · 21-11-2013 01:56PM

Fatal accidents the work place 2008- 2013
http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Statistics/Fatal_Injury/
non-fatal
http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Statistics/Non-Fatal_Injury_and_Illness/

if the gardai are so great, why are people getting together to form community alert schemes? The increase in these around the country is because in a lot of areas, the gardai are less than useless.

leonidas83 · 21-11-2013 01:58PM

mattjack wrote: »

Hardly makes any difference to the families of deceased how they died , but quite a few more have died in ways other than shooting , Garda Callinan springs to mind as being one of the more horrific deaths , never mind the young Garda mown down in Donegal recently as well two more being hit by a stolen car.

I'm well of the other Garda deaths but the point I'm making is that in relation to serious crime, the mortality rates are very low in comparison to other countries & the garda's pay on average in this country is much higher & unjustifiably so in my opinion

nelly17 · 21-11-2013 02:01PM

Boombastic wrote: »

Fatal accidents the work place 2008- 2013
http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Statistics/Fatal_Injury/
non-fatal
http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Statistics/Non-Fatal_Injury_and_Illness/

if the gardai are so great, why are people getting together to form community alert schemes? The increase in these around the country is because in a lot of areas, the gardai are less than useless.

Because local rural Garda stations have been systematicaly shut down by the current government as a cost saving measure

snubbleste · 21-11-2013 02:02PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

...
My sister-in-law (Detective Garda) is down 60% in allowances and 40% in salary take home pay, Id challenge anyone at any level of lifestyle to be able to adjust their obligations to deal with those sort of reductions.

Ah diddums.
Maybe she'd consider a bigger cut in allowances and a huge cut in allowances, and join the ~500k unemployed and more who are underemployed?

Boombastic · 21-11-2013 02:07PM

nelly17 wrote: »

Because local rural Garda stations have been systematicaly shut down by the current government as a cost saving measure

but they were replaced with smarter policing :pac: My comment also refers to places where the station wasn't closed. In areas where stations weren't closed, what's the explaination for a rise in the schemes?

dumb_as_dirt · 21-11-2013 02:10PM

leonidas83 wrote: »

Stop being ridiculous, anyone who has been burgled, mugged knows exactly what type of job they do most of the time. Lucky to get a call out at all, indifference, no follow up, bad attitude are just some of the things they would have to contend with usually

if you are connected to someone important , beit in AGS itself or politics etc , they will be out to you in jig time for the slightest bit of interference

how willing guards are to act depends on two things

who is doing the complaining

who is being complained about

on an individual level , their are tonnes of thoroughly decent people in AGS but as an organisation overall , they are corrupt , as such anyone with any ambition to climb the ranks in the force , must play the game and tolerate the rampant politics which exists within that institution

btw , I had two uncles in AGS

dumb_as_dirt · 21-11-2013 02:11PM

Khannie wrote: »

Surely you don't think they're all in it for the money?

My friends fella is a guard and I hear some of the things he goes through. It's a tough, tough job.

its a tough job if your based in ballymun ( no offense to ballymun ) , if your based in west galway , its a doss

dumb_as_dirt · 21-11-2013 02:13PM

angelfire9 wrote: »

The pension he's paid into for 30 years??
The pension he will most likely only get for 10 years as the life expectancy of retired Gardai is crap?
The lump sum (40-50k that's now going to be taxable) that will go into our mortgage so that when he does retire so that we can live on the €300 odd a week he will be getting?
I suppose we will save the €60 a week that he spends on petrol at the moment
:rolleyes:

what is this crap which is doing the rounds lately about how retired guards have a shorter life expectancy

I know the AGS union has to spin with the rest of the PS unions but that yarn is seriously silly

The Self pitying garda...

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