Why don't the "Second Captains" have a regular slot yet?

Lenin Skynard · 16-11-2013 04:53AM #1

The lads that hosted "Off The Ball" on Newstalk for ten years or so still are in the wilderness. They got their own TV show on RTE but it appears very rarely.

It seems like such a shame. Their show was fantastically produced and presented, with a network of really top notch collaborators in every sport. I'm not even much of a sports fan but because of my job, I end up driving for large sections of the evening and their show was always such a relief, it was really excellent.

Now they just have a podcast and an occasional TV show. Surely Newstalk are complete idiots for not facilitating the return of this show? Or RTE are idiots for not giving them a show? The "Off The Ball" show is still decent in my opinion but not in the same league as it was with McDevitt, Early and Murph.

I suppose the post comes across as a bit of a rant, but it really was a very good show and Irish radio is a lot poorer without it.

Insidious · 16-11-2013 04:55AM

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

The lads that hosted "Off The Ball" on Newstalk for ten years or so still are in the wilderness. They got their own TV show on RTE but it appears very rarely.

It seems like such a shame. Their show was fantastically produced and presented, with a network of really top notch collaborators in every sport. I'm not even much of a sports fan but because of my job, I end up driving for large sections of the evening and their show was always such a relief, it was really excellent.

Now they just have a podcast and an occasional TV show. Surely Newstalk are complete idiots for not facilitating the return of this show? Or RTE are idiots for not giving them a show? The "Off The Ball" show is still decent in my opinion but not in the same league as it was with McDevitt, Early and Murph.

I suppose the post comes across as a bit of a rant, but it really was a very good show and Irish radio is a lot poorer without it.

Pretty much sums up my feelings exactly.... Bring back the lads!!

DEFTLEFTHAND · 16-11-2013 10:06AM

They tried playing hardball with a billionaire and got blown out the door. Maybe they believed their own hype to an extent. Ger Gilroy, Wooly Parkinson, Gizzy Lyng and the rest of the lads have certainly filled the gap imo.

Radio in Ireland is a small world, now the the lads stock has fallen the other stations don't see the value in guys who could start acting up if things don't go their way.

newcavanman · 16-11-2013 10:13AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

They tried playing hardball with a billionaire and got blown out the door. Maybe they believed their own hype to an extent. Ger Gilroy, Wooly Parkinson, Gizzy Lyng and the rest of the lads have certainly filled the gap imo.

Radio in Ireland is a small world, now the the lads stock has fallen the other stations don't see the value in guys who could start acting up if things don't go their way.

you hit the nail on the head. I used to really enjoy their show despite not being a big sports fan, and while . Wouldnt be mad keen on ger Gilroy etc, they are more than adequate replacements for the Second Captains. The moral of the story is, dont go head to head with a billionaire unless you have a signed binding offer from someone else in your back pocket.
The boys should have the first rule of Irish Media, " Dont be another Marty Whelan, unless you want to spend ten years in the wilderness "

Hesh's Umpire · 16-11-2013 10:16AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

. Maybe they believed their own hype to an extent.

It's as simple as that. They're not as good as they think.

LeinsterDub · 16-11-2013 11:34AM

Aren't they contracted to write and podcast for the it. I don't think they are allowed look for a radio option.

wnolan1992 · 16-11-2013 05:47PM

Funny thing is, they're probably pulling in close to the same amount of listeners to the podcasts as they did on NT. They seem to average around 18,000 SoundCloud plays per episode, and I assume that doesn't take into account iTunes where they are regularly top of the charts.

pconn062 · 16-11-2013 07:07PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

They tried playing hardball with a billionaire and got blown out the door. Maybe they believed their own hype to an extent. Ger Gilroy, Wooly Parkinson, Gizzy Lyng and the rest of the lads have certainly filled the gap imo.

Radio in Ireland is a small world, now the the lads stock has fallen the other stations don't see the value in guys who could start acting up if things don't go their way.

While Gilroy is OK (although a bit bland), Parkinson and Lyng are the two of the worst presenters I've ever listened to. I have to turn off every time they speak. Joe and Ger are not bad interviewers (not a patch on McDevitt) but the other two are intolerable.

soc160 · 16-11-2013 09:43PM

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

The lads that hosted "Off The Ball" on Newstalk for ten years or so still are in the wilderness. They got their own TV show on RTE but it appears very rarely.

It seems like such a shame. Their show was fantastically produced and presented, with a network of really top notch collaborators in every sport. I'm not even much of a sports fan but because of my job, I end up driving for large sections of the evening and their show was always such a relief, it was really excellent.

Now they just have a podcast and an occasional TV show. Surely Newstalk are complete idiots for not facilitating the return of this show? Or RTE are idiots for not giving them a show? The "Off The Ball" show is still decent in my opinion but not in the same league as it was with McDevitt, Early and Murph.

I suppose the post comes across as a bit of a rant, but it really was a very good show and Irish radio is a lot poorer without it.

What station would they move to? RTE are the only other national broadcaster who would offer them such a large audience reach, then if it is RTE where do they fit in, they have a sports show already on 2fm at 7 onwards.

The other side to this is why would they want to go back to live radio. The podcast has a sizeable reach, they have over 100 thousand subscribers on Soundcloud, an average of about 20 thousand listeners on their, add that to itunes downloads and they are pulling in a very sizable audience, the best thing about it is they ease of access, you can listen anytime you want or is convenient. If they move back to radio they become less accessible to the audience because they are on at a certain time. It makes it easier for them too, they can fit recording around other schedules they have or depending on where the need is for a news, this week they released a show on Wednesday for the Roy Keane press conference instead of waiting until Thursday. The TV show never would have happened if they had stayed with newstalk, the schedules would have clashed.

I think it would be difficult to get them to come back to radio considering they are providing the same service but it is easier for them and the listener.

Loafing Oaf · 16-11-2013 11:08PM

soc160 wrote: »

The other side to this is why would they want to go back to live radio.

Are they making a living wage from the podcasts? I don't know, genuinely asking the question.

Ol' Donie · 17-11-2013 12:55AM

I wish they'd get back on the radio. I've said it loads of times, but it's not the same when it's not live.

Although I still love the lads, having thought about the whole thing, I'm a bit pissed off with them. I've heard both sides of the story, and the ultimate losers as far as I can see are the fans who liked to liked to listen to proper OTB from 7-10 in the evening. The lads weren't happy with the time slot, but I (and i suspect many fans) were.

I wonder would they have been happy with the current state of affairs at Newstalk - the weekend shows being under the OTB brand? Would that have kept them happy?

One other thing: how does their current show give them wider exposure? Didn't they have several podcasts on Newstalk?

soc160 · 17-11-2013 01:48AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Are they making a living wage from the podcasts? I don't know, genuinely asking the question.

Well they work for The Irish Times so I guess they pay them, they are most likely considered journalists, I don't know what there involvement is beyond the podcasts, I know Ken writes but that's it. You would have to imagine they are being paid, that coupled with the TV money is surely enough to keep them going, probably some freelance work going for them too.

The podcast is a strange set-up, it's a platform for them that The Irish Times provide but seem to want much in return bar the odd mention. It's not like the Guardian and Football Weekly which is heavily on brand and "guardian" like. Maybe The Irish Times are just letting them build a brand before they cash in on their publicity.

Aside from my argument I would like to hear them on radio again but I guess they are more concerned with new-media, they even mention online radio and tv as the future in their Football podcast from Tuesday. It's a trend in Ireland and the UK now, radio is a medium that creates more "celebs" for TV to expose and the general public to consume.

DublinKev · 17-11-2013 06:41PM

pconn062 wrote: »

While Gilroy is OK (although a bit bland), Parkinson and Lyng are the two of the worst presenters I've ever listened to. I have to turn off every time they speak. Joe and Ger are not bad interviewers (not a patch on McDevitt) but the other two are intolerable.

I couldn't agree more. Ger is very good and Joe has improved a lot but I actually turn off any night that Wooly is on. Cannot understand how anyone in NT can consider that good radio.

Loafing Oaf · 17-11-2013 08:56PM

soc160 wrote: »

Well they work for The Irish Times so I guess they pay them, they are most likely considered journalists, I don't know what there involvement is beyond the podcasts, I know Ken writes but that's it. You would have to imagine they are being paid, that coupled with the TV money is surely enough to keep them going, probably some freelance work going for them too.

The podcast is a strange set-up, it's a platform for them that The Irish Times provide but seem to want much in return bar the odd mention. It's not like the Guardian and Football Weekly which is heavily on brand and "guardian" like. Maybe The Irish Times are just letting them build a brand before they cash in on their publicity.

Aside from my argument I would like to hear them on radio again but I guess they are more concerned with new-media, they even mention online radio and tv as the future in their Football podcast from Tuesday. It's a trend in Ireland and the UK now, radio is a medium that creates more "celebs" for TV to expose and the general public to consume.

I'm sure they're getting paid something but would be the IT be paying five guys a living wage for two hours per week of a 'product' that's pretty marginal to the paper's main mission? AFAIK the tv series was just a one-off four episode thing, no idea whether RTE plans to commission any more. IMO Eoin, Ken & Richey would be the ideal replacements for Billo et all but again I have no idea whether RTE have any plans in this direction.

The new media thing is all very well but how many people have been able to make a buck out of it? If the lads were to set up on their own as the second captains daily podcast or whatever, do you think they would be able to live off it?

Expunge · 18-11-2013 11:27AM

So the conundrum of how to make traditional newspapers make money online has been solved!!
Just get five lads who spat the dummy from the pram with their employers to host a podcast loosely attached to your brand and all will be well!

Why didn't anyone think of it before?
Unless these lads have other jobs, this does not seem sustainable. Nice hobby though.

They are, of course, much better than the FAS course lads doing Off The Ball now. It's a shame they are not still on it.
A podcast should be offered as an add on to a live radio show - especially a sports show.

Radio5 · 18-11-2013 12:00PM

Would UTV be interested one wonders?

Bard · 18-11-2013 12:49PM

Seems like stating the bleedin' obvious but... Who wants to pay 5 salaries for just one show?

mike65 · 18-11-2013 01:17PM

Quite, if a radio enterprise was ever overmanned its the Seciond Captains.

wnolan1992 · 18-11-2013 01:26PM

It's really hard to make a case for all five of them being necessary. I mean, I'm sure Simon and Mark do a lot behind the scenes but, realistically, their jobs could probably be done by an existing producer at where ever hired them. I think Eoin, Ken and Ciaran are essential to what makes their style works. When either one is missing, the show loses something.

super_furry · 18-11-2013 01:30PM

The problem for them is that there was never really anywhere for them to go. RTE radio has Game On in what would be their slot doing nicely and with Denis O'Brien owning Spin, Today FM and 98fm, and them wanting three to four hours to be dedicated to their show daily, their options were all but nonexistent.

wnolan1992 · 18-11-2013 01:33PM

super_furry wrote: »

The problem for them is that there was never really anywhere for them to go. RTE radio has Game On in what would be their slot doing nicely and with Denis O'Brien owning Spin, Today FM and 98fm, and them wanting three to four hours to be dedicated to their show daily, their options were all but nonexistent.

I thought they'd get the Game On slot when they left tbh.

foxtrot101 · 18-11-2013 02:38PM

Bard wrote: »

Seems like stating the bleedin' obvious but... Who wants to pay 5 salaries for just one show?

Including the presenter, 4 people are working on Game On. So that's 4 salaries for a one hour show with an audience of around 20,000. Off the ball was a 3 hour show. Newstalk presenters list off the production staff at the end of each show. The Breakfast Show, Pat Kenny, Moncrieff and the Right Hook all have at least 6 people working on them(presenter included). RTE shows, simply because it's RTE, probably have more.

The 5 of them wouldn't have to be employed directly by RTE. It could all be done via an independent production company. RTE is mandated to a have a certain number of these type of shows in any case.

L1011 · 18-11-2013 05:38PM

foxtrot101 wrote: »

Including the presenter, 4 people are working on Game On. So that's 4 salaries for a one hour show with an audience of around 20,000. Off the ball was a 3 hour show. Newstalk presenters list off the production staff at the end of each show. The Breakfast Show, Pat Kenny, Moncrieff and the Right Hook all have at least 6 people working on them(presenter included). RTE shows, simply because it's RTE, probably have more.

The 5 of them wouldn't have to be employed directly by RTE. It could all be done via an independent production company. RTE is mandated to a have a certain number of these type of shows in any case.

Its likely that the production staff on Game On work on other shows than just it. So unless they were willing to either work on other content or for an indepedent production house to suck up the costs, its still an added cost.

soc160 · 19-11-2013 01:46AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I'm sure they're getting paid something but would be the IT be paying five guys a living wage for two hours per week of a 'product' that's pretty marginal to the paper's main mission? AFAIK the tv series was just a one-off four episode thing, no idea whether RTE plans to commission any more. IMO Eoin, Ken & Richey would be the ideal replacements for Billo et all but again I have no idea whether RTE have any plans in this direction.

The new media thing is all very well but how many people have been able to make a buck out of it? If the lads were to set up on their own as the second captains daily podcast or whatever, do you think they would be able to live off it?

Sadlier already has work there as we know but the lads wouldn't just slot in like that, Ken would be fine as a panelist but there isn't a need for a host, Murph would have no role and two prdoucers can't just walk in and take over. Also, the joy of them as a group is the variety of sports they cover, at RTE people seem to be pigeon holing them as football pundits.

Expunge wrote: »

So the conundrum of how to make traditional newspapers make money online has been solved!!
Just get five lads who spat the dummy from the pram with their employers to host a podcast loosely attached to your brand and all will be well!

Why didn't anyone think of it before?
Unless these lads have other jobs, this does not seem sustainable. Nice hobby though.

They are, of course, much better than the FAS course lads doing Off The Ball now. It's a shame they are not still on it.
A podcast should be offered as an add on to a live radio show - especially a sports show.

Ye, in the long run it may not be sustainable, but IT might be able to build off the publicity the lads generate. The problem is that they don't want to work on radio it seems, it doesn't suit and they have more flexibility with podcasting, we have to take it at face value and assume they get decent money for their work because they still do it.

Expunge · 19-11-2013 09:48AM

I wouldn't take it as a given that they don't want to work in radio anymore. I heard that they - or some of them - had been in to the last Head of 2FM to see if something could be arranged.
Taking on 5 people for one strand even in RTE was not a runner.
They're trying to get fellas out the door over there - not take on more.

They are young men. It's time for each of them to go their own way and develop themselves professionally in their various ways back on the traditional media and see what happens in the future.

Loafing Oaf · 19-11-2013 10:21AM

soc160 wrote: »

Sadlier already has work there as we know but the lads wouldn't just slot in like that, Ken would be fine as a panelist but there isn't a need for a host, Murph would have no role and two prdoucers can't just walk in and take over. Also, the joy of them as a group is the variety of sports they cover, at RTE people seem to be pigeon holing them as football pundits.

I believe Billo is retiring after next year's World Cup, and Giles is in his mid 70s. Seems to me like the right time for a total overhaul of football coverage. It's really the dynamic of the OTB Football Show I want to see replicated on tv, and Eoin as host Ken as panelist seems the way to do that, possibly with Richie and one other panelist.

soc160 · 20-11-2013 01:01AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I believe Billo is retiring after next year's World Cup, and Giles is in his mid 70s. Seems to me like the right time for a total overhaul of football coverage. It's really the dynamic of the OTB Football Show I want to see replicated on tv, and Eoin as host Ken as panelist seems the way to do that, possibly with Richie and one other panelist.

But... my point above was that people are pigeon holing them into being football people, Ken is the football pundit, Eoin is a host but beyond that the other 3 won't fit in... We also have to take into account that this is the national broadcaster we are talking about, it's about seniority there, I just cannot see RTE bringing in a new host above the heads of the guys who have been there for years and bring in 2/3 producers with very little TV experience and give them one of the biggest gigs in the place...

It is plausible that Ken could work there as a pundit. Eoin could be a host but would need to start off at the bottom and work his way up, but that's it. Some people glorify the lads and say they can do this and that, but in reality Irish Media is small and they have burnt bridges with one sector already. They are good at what they do but the next move for them isn't clear and what they have now is a good deal.

Loafing Oaf · 20-11-2013 01:25AM

soc160 wrote: »

But... my point above was that people are pigeon holing them into being football people, Ken is the football pundit, Eoin is a host but beyond that the other 3 won't fit in... We also have to take into account that this is the national broadcaster we are talking about, it's about seniority there, I just cannot see RTE bringing in a new host above the heads of the guys who have been there for years and bring in 2/3 producers with very little TV experience and give them one of the biggest gigs in the place...

It is plausible that Ken could work there as a pundit. Eoin could be a host but would need to start off at the bottom and work his way up, but that's it. Some people glorify the lads and say they can do this and that, but in reality Irish Media is small and they have burnt bridges with one sector already. They are good at what they do but the next move for them isn't clear and what they have now is a good deal.

But there is going to be a vacancy for presenting internationals and CL if Bill retires. And Eoin has fairly extensive experience presenting for Setanta at this stage. Accepted that RTE generally goes by seniority so it'll probably be Daragh Moloney stepping into Bill's shoes, but I wouldn't say it was out of the question that Ryle Nugent, as an ex-commentator himself, would take a punt on Eoin as a more incisive, 'street' type of presenter than Moloney or Collins. And to get the best out of Eoin you need Ken as his sidekick.

Re the rest of the Second Captains posse I don't really care, well I quite like Murph but don't really see where he fits in on tv, unless they do more Soccer AM type stuff. And Ken is almost exclusively a football guy and Eoin, while a jack of all trades, is a master of most of them too and would have much expertise in presenting football tv as anyone I can think of in Irish media.

heybaby · 20-11-2013 09:29AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But there is going to be a vacancy for presenting internationals and CL if Bill retires. And Eoin has fairly extensive experience presenting for Setanta at this stage. Accepted that RTE generally goes by seniority so it'll probably be Daragh Moloney stepping into Bill's shoes, but I wouldn't say it was out of the question that Ryle Nugent, as an ex-commentator himself, would take a punt on Eoin as a more incisive, 'street' type of presenter than Moloney or Collins. And to get the best out of Eoin you need Ken as his sidekick.

Re the rest of the Second Captains posse I don't really care, well I quite like Murph but don't really see where he fits in on tv, unless they do more Soccer AM type stuff. And Ken is almost exclusively a football guy and Eoin, while a jack of all trades, is a master of most of them too and would have much expertise in presenting football tv as anyone I can think of in Irish media.

Billo said publicly when he was promoting his autobiography this time last year that Darragh will be his replacement and that he supports that decision.

Expunge · 20-11-2013 09:48AM

Football TV pundits are all now ex-pros. Earley is not an ex-pro, so he won't end up there.
Bill O' Herlihy had a 20 year career under his belt in news, current affairs and print journalism before he started anchoring football coverage on RTE TV. He was and is considered to be a heavy-weight.
Eoin McDevitt is a cult success and a presenter I like, but 'street' is probably not a consideration for such a position as O'Herlihy's.
Their well known problems with authority as demonstrated by their mass resignation from Newstalk will dog them for a while yet.
RTE middle and upper management, with the very odd exception it seems to me, do not take punts. They protect their arses and fill their pensions.

The best thing those lads could do now is apply for jobs in RTE news and current affairs the next time they advertise - like the rest of the great unwashed - and take it from there.

A P · 20-11-2013 10:41AM

Expunge wrote: »

Football TV pundits are all now ex-pros. Earley is not an ex-pro, so he won't end up there.

Don't forget Ken's a Marseille trialist - that has to count for something

Why don't the "Second Captains" have a regular slot yet?

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