Haddington Road Discussion ASTI/TUI/Non Union at Second Level

Looks as if the ESB will close schools before the ASTI even get the chance. Surprised The Indo missed that :pac:

I had a big chat with a few staff members today.

All of whom are going to vote yes.

Their big question was "what's the end game plan"?

If we vote no again, and industrial action ramps up to full strike, and the government stand firm, what then?

I think several thousand parents of 6th year students harassing Minister Quinn would probably do the trick.

losullivan wrote: »

I am happy to report that our staff room is hopping with angry teachers who have no intentions of giving up without a fight. We are lucky to have excellent reps who keep us informed and encourage attendance at branch meetings. Please go to your next meeting and get involved. Also, the Asti Fightback group have just set up a new website with lots of detailed documents outlining the reasons to vote NO.

Same

gammy_knees wrote: »

What concessions have the govt. given?

The option to 'opt out ' of S&S if you didn't do it before and 'working committees ' ( yeah probably made up of those from ASTI and Dept who sold us out in the first place !) on casual inaction ,CID and better use of 33 hours .Ok so they're crap concessions but they're still rowing back .And the hoors can keep rowing !

gammy_knees wrote: »

What trick do you mean? To concede to ASTI or enact FEMPI on a No vote.

FEMPI is already in operation. He could of course put in place the more Draconian measures he has available to him under the legislation but I feel, like others, he would've already done it by now if he had ever planned to do it. Making teachers redundant would have a disastrous effect on 6th year groups that would be comparable to a strike, even with a replacement (TUI, or non-union presumably) teacher on hand.

I'm speaking from my position as an English teacher here but that replacement would likely have to read and study for themselves a number of texts in order to be properly able to teach them effectively in a relatively small time-scale (ie before the mocks and then before June). I don't believe parents would stand for it, especially if they like the original teacher and are happy with what he/she is doing.

The parent's council can say what they like, but I believe the vast majority of parents who have children in secondary schools know how much work teachers do, especially those that want to see their kids do well. If the dispute is escalated, they'll be our best friends and the government's worst enemy. Who else are they going to attack? Individual teachers? No. Give out on Newstalk? Already happening, and no let up on Industrial action. Pat King? I'd actually quite like to see that, but doubt he'll much care. He'll have received far worse from his own members by then. So the government is the only target where they can set up shop and demand something is changed and eventually conceded.

Benicetomonty wrote: »

FEMPI is already in operation. He could of course put in place more the more Draconian measures he has available to him under the legislation but I feel, like others, he would've already done it by now if he had ever planned to do it. Making teachers redundant would have a disastrous effect on 6th year groups that would be comparable to a strike, even with a replacement (TUI, or non-union presumably) teacher on hand.

I'm speaking from my position as an English teacher here but that replacement would likely have to read and study for themselves a number of texts in order to be properly able to teach them effectively in a relatively small time-scale (ie before the mocks and then before June). I don't believe parents would stand for it, especially if they like the original teacher and are happy with what he/she is doing.

The parent's council can say what they like, but I believe the vast majority of parents who have children in secondary schools know how much work teachers do, especially those that want to see their kids do well. If the dispute is escalated, they'll be our best friends and the government's worst enemy. Who else are they going to attack? Individual teachers? No. Give out on Newstalk? Already happening, and no let up on Industrial action. Pat King? I'd actually quite like to see that, but doubt he'll much care. He'll have received far worse from his own members by then. So the government is the only target where they can set up shop and demand something is changed and eventually conceded.

This makes the most sense that I have read. That is the question that all ask. In my school, good mix of older and younger teachers it seems to be 50/50 yes and no. I am drastically trying to get people to look beyond themselves when making a decision. Younger teachers see the improved pay scale and CID aspect. Older teachers look at the restoration of increments towards their pension. The gov have been smart by offering little tidbits to the vulnerable. Me, I'm a no all the way. They have cut pay how many times. They will come looking again. If we say yes to this then we are broken and un fixable as a force. What sort of self respect can we have? Say no twice and then scared into a yes! We will look like a joke. We need to strike to show any force! This is not about the students, it's about our working conditions. All other unions hung us out to dry by looking after themselves. We must now do the same! With regard to the recent proposals, the dept officials left the room and said to each other, "did that just happen?" They are bully's and must be treated as such.

puca13 wrote: »

I was chatting to my colleagues today and many are going to vote yes. The reason???They don't want to go on strike before Christmas!! It is scary how people are changing their minds.

Strange to see a first time poster (troll) here on this form. Wonder what their motives are. Also a certain poster with 25 posts above here with a sway towards the yes side! You would be surprised who posted here and their motives for doing so!

28 posts!

justy182 wrote: »

Strange to see a first time poster (troll) here on this form. Wonder what their motives are. Also a certain poster with 25 posts above here with a sway towards the yes side! You would be surprised who posted here and their motives for doing so!

28 posts!

Are you speaking about me? Just joined, even though I have been following this for the last few weeks. I am a teacher and my motives are simply to find out what everybody thinks of the whole situation.

What the government rowed back on?

1. Implementation of JC - a "committee will be set up" and teachers concerns voiced. Positive step but not enough

2. CP hours will be allowed to be used in a better way, we won't all have to be in the same room at the same time.
CP hours shouldn't exist. They are the epitomy of condescension from on high.

3. CID..... BS. 6-14 hour CID not good enough

4 an opt out clause for S&S, ie a €1700 deduction in wages.
Which really amounts to a €3400 deduction if one is already doing S&S and now wants out on the basis of not wanting burn out.


I hold my hands up here.
I don't have the answers.
I support a no vote to HRA, I don't have the stomach for a strike.
When the ballot arrives, I expect another ballot on measures up to and including strike.

The current action is making school life difficult already.
Parent teacher meetings are one thing & I'd have no issue with doing them in school time, but info evenings, career evenings etc, I don't think they should be hit.

gammy_knees wrote: »

Didn't know this forum only for those who are against HR. I wont piss on the parade.
*switching to Gentlemans Lounge to increase legitimacy by making silly postings to increase figures*

Didn't know there was a reason to be for it!