ESB vote to strike over gold plated pensions as winter arrives

mike65 · 19-11-2013 01:29PM #1

Uber Union boss Brendan Ogle (the man who brought CIE trains to its knees in 2000) is now threatening to plunge the huddled masses into the dark and cold over a shortfall in the ESB Unions pension fund (due to switch from defined benefit to contributory pension). If there is a gap then that is the business of the Unions and the company not the public

"If those workers were to withdraw their labour, I’ve no doubt that there would be a disruption to service.

What effect that would have, how long it would be and how damaging it would be to people across the country remains to be seen.”

Unions will decide on Friday whether to down tools, 87 per cent of workers voted for industrial action. Of course as strike if it dug deep would also hit industry.

The average ESB salary is 65k a year.

whiskeyman · 19-11-2013 01:34PM

mike65 wrote: »

Unions will decide on Friday whether to down tools

"Go on Tom! Down that power-sander!! chug chug!! Now have a jigsaw chaser!!"

Corkbah · 19-11-2013 01:34PM

amazing how unions seem to encourage strikes coming up towards christmas …. every year its the same …. we fancy a strike (unless you want to give us more money)

Gatling · 19-11-2013 01:36PM

Absolutely ridiculous if this is allowed happen ,

jim_jim · 19-11-2013 01:36PM

ogle is an obnoxious charlatan

a self proclaimed socialist who insists on a salary which is more than double the average industrial wage for the workers he represents

Karl Stein · 19-11-2013 01:37PM

I'm going to fill the bath with electricity just in case.

19-11-2013 01:39PM

It was/is company practice to give 'promotions' a year or so before an employee retired, as their pension was based on final salary/grade. This boosted their already generous pension, it looks like years of this practice has finally come home to roost.

Hunter Mahan · 19-11-2013 01:40PM

I guess they have a right to oppose a perceived injustice and I'm not sure what relevance an average salary has? An electricity cut would be devastating but strong unions are a rare breed these days, and we probably need more of them. If I was a member of one, I'd certainly appreciate a bit of bite when needed.

jim_jim · 19-11-2013 01:42PM

Hunter Mahan wrote: »

I guess they have a right to oppose a perceived injustice and I'm not sure what relevance an average salary has? An electricity cut would be devastating but strong unions are a rare breed these days, and we probably need more of them. If I was a member of one, I'd certainly appreciate a bit of bite when needed.

so you think mr ogle and his fellow union chiefs at ESB are striking a blow for the rest of us ?

tobsey · 19-11-2013 01:42PM

The staff have pension entitlements built into their contracts. The company is supposed to plan and prepare for these pension payments. Currently there is a massive shortfall in the fund and instead of filling that gap the company is giving hundreds of millions to the government purse. That sounds to me like the workers pensions are being risked in order to reduce the government deficit. They are currently paying the increased taxes that have been announced in the budget but now as well as that their pensions are being paid to the government also. I know I'd be pissed with it.

MonstaMash · 19-11-2013 01:43PM

In all fairness, there's a €1.5 billion deficit in the State-owned company’s pension scheme...

If I was an ESB worker contributing to said pension scheme my whole working life, I'd be pretty pissed off about it & I'd want some answers .

What other avenue of recourse do they have?

jim_jim · 19-11-2013 01:43PM

tobsey wrote: »

The staff have pension entitlements built into their contracts. The company is supposed to plan and prepare for these pension payments. Currently there is a massive shortfall in the fund and instead of filling that gap the company is giving hundreds of millions to the government purse. That sounds to me like the workers pensions are being risked in order to reduce the government deficit. They are currently paying the increased taxes that have been announced in the budget but now as well as that their pensions are being paid to the government also. I know I'd be pissed with it.

DB pensions are a Ponzi scheme and unsustainable

hidinginthebush · 19-11-2013 01:44PM

I heard it on the news that the pension deficit in ESB is over €1 billion, and they're contemplating strike because a dividend was paid out to the government rather than pumped into the pension fund. The governmanet own 95% of the ESB, so why the hell shouldn't they get to take a divident payment, it's not as if the country has money to spare. The dividend is €600 million, money the country could well use rather than letting it vanish into some mismanaged and over inflated pension fund.

Mardy Bum · 19-11-2013 01:45PM

mike65 wrote: »

The average ESB salary is 65k a year.

This is a terrible measurement when there are extreme values in the model.
It tells us absolutely nothing.

kona · 19-11-2013 01:45PM

I'd say it's similar crap to the aviation one. Good aul state bodies.

mike65 · 19-11-2013 01:46PM

MonstaMash wrote: »

In all fairness, there's a €1.5 billion deficit in the State-owned company’s pension scheme...

If I was an ESB worker contributing to said pension scheme my whole working life, I'd be pretty pissed off about it & I'd want some answers .

What other avenue of recourse do they have?

To not put the rest of us in misery? That a union has a beef is never a reason to bring the county to a grinding halt. Its not the 70s.

No ESB family is popping a 50c piece into a pay as you go meter.

Hunter Mahan · 19-11-2013 01:46PM

jim_jim wrote: »

so you think mr ogle and his fellow union chiefs at ESB are striking a blow for the rest of us ?

No, I dont think I said that anywhere, why would they? They are acting on their members wishes and fighting for them.
I was just commenting on a perceived weakness of many other Irish unions.

jim_jim · 19-11-2013 01:48PM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

This is a terrible measurement when there are extreme values in the model.
It tells us absolutely nothing.

that's how averages work , just because the guy making the tea is on 20 k per year doesn't mean their are not many on over a hundred k per year

mikom · 19-11-2013 01:48PM

Lights go out................. meanwhile.........

PROFITS before tax at the ESB rose four-fold last year as the semi-state piled further price increases on hard-pressed households.

Annual results for 2012 show the company raked in profits of €327.6m in the same year that it hiked prices for customers by almost 6pc.
The profit was up from the €78.8m pre-tax profit made in 2011.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/pretax-profits-at-esb-rise-fourfold-after-customers-hit-by-price-hike-29129325.html

draiochtanois · 19-11-2013 01:48PM

This post has been deleted.

MonstaMash · 19-11-2013 01:50PM

mike65 wrote: »

To not put the rest of us in misery? That a union has a beef is never a reason to bring the county to a grinding halt. Its not the 70s.

No ESB family is popping a 50c piece into a pay as you go meter.

The average human being isn't that benevolant unfortunately, especially when it's their own potential future funds that are threatened.

The ESB worker affected by this could care less about our misery, as indeed most of us, truth be known, give a toss about their pension scheme, until it affects us.

reprazant · 19-11-2013 01:52PM

MonstaMash wrote: »

The average human being isn't that benevolant unfortunately, especially when it's their own potential future funds that are threatened.

The ESB worker affected by this could care less about our misery, as indeed most of us, truth be known, give a toss about their pension scheme, until it affects us.

If it was my pension, I wouldn't give a toss either. Neither would any of the outraged boards members either.

wandatowell · 19-11-2013 01:55PM

One issue the ESB has was that years ago they were extremely over staffed (I'm talking 70's, 80's, 90's).
So in order to get employee numbers down they offered a lot of staff "packages". Now, there is the issue of having a lot less staff paying into the pension fund and a lot more retired employee's withdrawing.

Its a cluster **** of a situation.

Also I'm nearly sure the switch in pension types was force upon staff with little or no discussion.

anncoates · 19-11-2013 01:56PM

The thread title isn't heart wrenching enough.

I suggest:

Fat Cat ESB vote to strike over gold-plated pensions as coldest winter on record arrives and babies starve in the streets

Slutmonkey57b · 19-11-2013 01:56PM

jim_jim wrote: »

DB pensions are a Ponzi scheme and unsustainable

So are bank accounts.

diomed · 19-11-2013 01:59PM

If they strike then it is an opportunity for the Government to dismantle the ESB. Bring it on.

animaal · 19-11-2013 02:00PM

In the real world, what happens with DB schemes that fall short? Benefits get reduced. The schemes get wound up. There's no requirement for a company to pour all its funds into a pension scheme.

Unions have to learn that they don't own or manage companies. They put far more effort into issues like this, and into power grabs (Eircom ESOT) than they do into real injustice (e.g. Irish Ferries).

I'll gladly suffer the results of industrial action, if the government can stick to its guns and break the stranglehold the unions have over the country.

noodler · 19-11-2013 02:00PM

DB schemes are closing up everywhere.

I don't see why shareholders should be asked to contribute anymore than they already have.

wandatowell · 19-11-2013 02:01PM

mike65 wrote: »

No ESB family is popping a 50c piece into a pay as you go meter.

Who would want to? Rip off prices.

Over €.50 cent a day in fees before you've even used one unit. A unit which costs €.19cent.

http://prepaypower.ie/pricing

SEPT 23 1989 · 19-11-2013 02:02PM

wrong time to start that carry on

the abuse they will receive from the public on the picket line will be fun

jim_jim · 19-11-2013 02:05PM

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

So are bank accounts.

explain

ESB vote to strike over gold plated pensions as winter arrives

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