Introverts

Appreciate the late night repsonses hehe.
I have been known to use those in the past myself.

Alcohol hasn't been the best bandaid with me, bit of green has helped me thinkmore and be more creative and relaxed.

Thing is I am way too happy just as I am...
Love team work, I just don't like talking in person.Actually I love conversation in writing and slow convoin person..
I guess since introverts can be so contemplative, it is much harder to be around social events.Too much stimulus.
Maybe I will try wear ear plugs and blinkers

I know its best to be yourself.
But if yourself is distance from people who need your attention and you care about them....Have a spliff? thats an exspensive medication lol

Sorry could that be clarified for me a bit?
Or is it in response to another post?

But I would love to tlak on Nietzche.so maybe can try expand on his work to hghlight what I mean.

The Flies in the market

Flee, my friend, into thy solitude! I see thee deafened with the noise of the great men, and stung all over with the stings of the little ones.
Admirably do forest and rock know how to be silent with thee. Resemble again the tree which thou lovest, the broad-branched one--silently and attentively it o'erhangeth the sea.
Where solitude endeth, there beginneth the market-place; and where the market-place beginneth, there beginneth also the noise of the great actors, and the buzzing of the poison-flies.
In the world even the best things are worthless without those who represent them: those representers, the people call great men.

Was Nietzchhe saying to run away into solitiude to understand the contrasts? or to stay there were you would be always at peace?

Shyness is something seperate or so I have read.
Introverts like one on one,because it is more meaningfull to them.
So I am very confident in myself for example, but if I have to talk to more people at the same time, I have too much to process and I run out of energy trying to build models of THEIR perceptions and fully taking in what they are saying and thinking.
Afer that I will switch off and think about something else, while nodding away so as not to force the other person to see that they are talking without thinking and cause them shame or embarrasment.
Thats why introverts run away and may not come back for a while..they are too considerate!

I think generally introverts listen and think a lot about what your saying, If they are not in the mode where they want to run away because someone is talking at them too fast
Spending a lot of time alone for that reason, so they can be able to give extraverts the attention they need.

This is why Nietzche is so interesting to me.
He must have been an introvert.
He writes quite a lot generally about finding yourself and being comfortable in your own skin.
Not judging others so much and feeling sorry for those who are not able to see the world his way.
The superman to him, might be an evolved version of the average human, who is fully in control of their emotions and in touch with themselves so much that they see people as fully independant responsible individuals.
Because not all introverts either, are as I described above.The is also a lot to do with self awareness I think and self acceptance..
Basically being selfish..in the correct way.
If there is ever such a thing as a correct way to behave on this rock floating in space

The character Zarathustra(which is sort of a Jesus/bhudda archetype), travels around to different towns/villages teaching people his philosophy.
Trying to get them to understand they should not follow anyone,not even him.
But follow their hearts and dreams.
Not someone elses dreams or ideals.(the great actors who represent?)

The flies in the market chapter, to me anyway, seems to be telling people to flee from the chaos and distractions that come with "civilised" groups and find yourself first.
Being among the "flies" getting stung and "poisoned" might be a reference to you losing yourself a bit at a time and so, I think a balance is needed there.
To be able to retreat in to solitude regularly and keep in touch with yourself(to stay on your true course), while also being able to live amongst your brothers and sisters around the world.

I am starting to think, that maybe as an introvert, to keep my insanity intact I should probably search out those people who do not poison me too much and are able to be in touch with themselves while also being able to socialise.

Writing and talking with people online allows me to socialise without needing to force that space should someone latch on too much and drain me.
I can fully express myself here. And so I have a habit of writing too much text....

I have seen her do a very insightfull TED talk.
Here is something I found just now that I will have a listen to tonight.
Very long, but I am sure very interesting.
Like we are another species lol

Some good points there, she is coming off a bit biased, but I did say sounds like we are another species
She is more interested in the introvert nature especially considering her other material.
My guess is that she feels introverts have not been represented well to the world and are under valued.
I also don't agree with some of it myself. I did find it interesting though.

I have my own theory on at least one way introverts are "made". Most likely it's a combination or several different ways that decides this.
But considering how the brain develops along with our behavour I would not conclude it is just how we are born.

Is it inconsiderate of me to post introvert "pro" stuff if they have material in it that might sound negative to extraverts?
I honestly didn't think about it that way until now sorry.
I'm a forgetfull fence sitter lol

Edit: Ok now I see why she has this attitude. http://theintrovertentrepreneur.com/2012/06/07/breaking-news-introversion-is-not-a-disorder/

I'm not sure how I could link in a philosophers thinking into how introverts come about. Maybe a good practise for philosophy

My own ideas come from a lot of reading into articles and studies I have found online over the years. Some of them being scientific papers and others oppinions, and since I use intuition to recall, I can't tell which idea is which.

My own intuition is that when a baby is born, for the first few years they have strong attachments to their nurturer/mother.
If the nurturer gives the baby too much time alone when it is crying or distressed, the babies brain will form getting used to processing it's thoughts and experiences from an introverted perspective.
A form of coping I think.
Absolutely no negative feelings here when saying, my own mother suffered with post natal depression and I would guess this may have been one of the factors that steered me towards being introverted.
I clearly remember instances where all the kids in my family were very sick with a bad flu. i was about 4 years old and my younger brother and sister were about 2 years old. We were in seperate rooms across the hall with the doors open and i remember my poor mother tryng to run between the two rooms looking after all these kids vomitting LOL
I told her " I'm ok mum, go and look after them"(as I was getting sick haha). She always rmemebered that moment and said I was very independant even then. I think even then I was introverted and had already learned to deal with issues by myself. Which I think was a good thing.
Another is my father is an introvert and so a rolemodel for my behaviour socially. This is more an example as I am too lazy to google it to research it again
Anecdotel I suppose.

An example that isn't mine and that I have read about might be Carl Jung, who didn't seem to have a close relationship with his mother(I think she died when he was young) and shared a room with his father as a youngster. I consider him to have been a mix of a philosopher and psycho-analyst.
There are also cases where introversion has been lumped in with autism, kind of understandably, to someone who isn't an introvert.
I have personality traits that can be similar to aspergers syndrome, but I have done enough research and online tests to see I am not on that spectrum.
The similarities are very interesting though and makes me wonder about the connections in both groups thought patterns.
Another interesting thing I noticed on Autism is that it doesn't seem to be diagnosed or noticed in childen until they are at an age where they can socialise noticeably.

A lot of children on the autistic spectrum will shout loud noises when they reach a certain age. To me almost like they are exploring the outer world for the first time.
Which leads me to believe the brain until then has not been able to cope with the physical distress of what causes this and only at that age do they begin to reach out. Usually they are then told to stop making loud noises in public and probably revert back inwards.
My belief is that they are listening to their own voice starting to realise themselves in a real world.
But I think I have just digressed now....

Mabye some people reading can relate or have more input on all these thoughts.
I have issues staying on track

Actually lets see how far my theory goes.
I'l google Nietzches mother and maybe some other introverted philosophers and see how their relationships with their nurturers went in the early years.
A list of introverted philosophers would be helpfull if anyone knows some more.
Maybe they all were introverts

Edit again.. http://books.google.ie/books?id=gzpjWrj7iukC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=Nietzsche%27s+mother&source=bl&ots=5wkr88zzFi&sig=9BCrRTSoaitVPdxX-vZHtVp26ts&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NcvOUtPRLsHB7AaVx4DQAg&ved=0CF0Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Nietzsche%27s%20mother&f=false
It seems Nieztche at least was close to his mother but without his father. An opposite of Jung.

I have literally seen just one youtube video interviewing him and that is it, but I may take a look at his work now that you mention it

If you have any links to his writing or videos etc I would be happy to take a look.

Wish I had the time to read the "Notes from the Underground" Just too many things I have stacked up for reading already

I realised I had gotten distracted awayfrom this thread. So thought I would revisit it and continue. I think I am improving generally regarding philosophy and analysing my ideas too.

I'm not sure if this could be classed as a philosophy, but I think it is or at least a sample of C.G.Jungs ideas on introversion and also intuition.
Since I am roughly 90% introvert and 75% intuitive, this had me listening very intently
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_7DpbJ1xFg

Now to Nietzsche.

"Which great philosopher was hitherto married? Heraclitus, Plato, Descartes, Spinoza, Leibniz, Kant, Schopenhauer---they were not; what's more, one cannot even imagine them married. A married philosopher belongs in comedy, that is my principle: and that exception Socrates, the wicked Socrates got, it seems, married ironically, especially to demonstrate just this principle."
[Nietzsche, On the Genealogy of Morals, III.7]

I think here the reason these philosophers were alone most of their lives, was because they were introverted.
The way an introverts brain is made up, is inherently geared towards philosophical thinking. Some interesting neuro science articles on that too.
Also personally I find I am quite content alone and often find myself questioning if I need a woman in my life or if it's just a want that pops up every spring, when the mating season begins
I think more often it's a mix of that and finding a soul who can understand my chaos!
A rare catch indeed, if not impossible? I think possible, since I tend to search for peoples "souls" and skirt around the surface. I manage both very well most times. Narcicism? The search and love for oneself in others? lol
I would agree, only I accept(love) all people, but can bare longer those who can relate.
Sorry! Thinking "out loud" again...

Nietzsches Flies in the market, is a good example of a small tip for introverts. But only if you have a strong sense of duality or so it appears to me.
What he writes informs me of what he does not write or it's apposed meaning.

Flee, my friend, into thy solitude! I see thee deafened with the noise of the great men, and stung all over with the stings of the little ones.
Admirably do forest and rock know how to be silent with thee. Resemble again the tree which thou lovest, the broad-branched one- silently and attentively it o'erhangeth the sea.
Where solitude endeth, there beginneth the market-place; and where the market-place beginneth, there beginneth also the noise of the great actors, and the buzzing of the poison-flies.
In the world even the best things are worthless without those who represent them: those representers, the people call great men.
Little, do the people understand what is great—that is to say, the creating agency. But they have a taste for all representers and actors of great things.
Around the devisers of new values revolveth the world:—invisibly it revolveth. But around the actors revolve the people and the glory: such is the course of things.

Here you can see Nietzsche was troubled often by crowds and group behaviour.
But to appreciate solitude, we must have experience of it's counterpart. Otherwise we do not fully appreciate what solitude means.
The same is true when reversed.

Nietzsche himself said something like, what does not kill us, makes us stronger.
Taking a look at his vehemence for the crowds, has shown me that at least in this case, he may have forgotten to mention that the poison taken in small doses can help build up a resistance and make us stronger, while also helping us to appreciate our solitude and experience the world of our species, in order to be the creators he appreciates so much.
To create, we must have conflict and torment, they are some of the strongest drivers for inspiration, possibly through desperation and need to express.

The things we hate or find discomforting, may be the very things we need to evolve and progress.
Possibly the extroverts should find some appreciation for solitude in order to fully appreciate the marketplace.
I think both extrovert and introverts may take for granted their modes of being, if they do not try to practise dipping their toes in some poison now and then.
So flee the marketplace and put a salve on those stings, but return again when you are ready and bring a notebook
To the ones in the market, flee your solitude and drink your fill. When you are ready and full, go to your quiet place and bare with your soul for a time.
Discover yourself and bring them with you each time you return to the comfort of the market.

Lastly here's a really interesting book I came across researching for this post.
I can't wait to read it...when I get a chance (if I get a chance).
I think it could be an important one for any fan of Nietzsches work.

Carl G jungs analysis of Thus spake Zarathustra! My two favourite philosophers!
I may have to buy it in print, it seems too good to waste my eyes on a computer screen.
Link


Ok that wasn't so lastly, as I wanted to mention the post on HSP too. More from a personal perspective.
It seems I have a lot of those traits, as well as being introverted and that was very useful information.
Some of those traits also remind me of autism by the way. The sensitivity to fabrics for example is one that stands out to me and one I do not really have so much myself.
But I do tend to get overwhelmed by my suroundings and notice what feels like millions of different things going on around me. Walking in a crowd I can see peoples emotions as they walk past.
Couples energy towards each other, body language, peoples personalities through their clothes, their shoes, their hair, the symbolism in advertising, the things people are missing under their nose, that I couldn't point out without appearing obtrusive.
Peoples illnesses or possible illnesses based on research for symptoms and appearances from said symptoms.
All at the same time.
I think that may be partly HSP and partly introversion. Maybe the lack of being around thatstuff so much, has lessened my filters in that regard and made me more sensitive and aware of them.
In reverse, it might be that thinking to myself too much may cause me to build up my own filters, which could prevent me from seeing the more deeper things I might otherwise see in myself much easier. Being around soemthing too long can have the effect of forgetting it's there.

And I suppose in saying all that, there might be some use in sharing my thoughts on HSP.