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Numbers up Gerry

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Comments

  • #842
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    awec wrote: »
    And here we go with the other usual tactic. "But you don't really care". :rolleyes:

    Do you really think that sort of nonsense washes with people?

    Were the victims of Bloody Sunday used as political footballs by republicans in their quest for answers? That's the sort of point you are trying to make here. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

    More gymnastics to avoid questions you were asked.


  • #843
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    awec wrote: »
    And here we go with the other usual tactic. "But you don't really care". :rolleyes:

    Do you really think that sort of nonsense washes with people?

    Do you really think people aren't going to see through a programme the purported to be about locating those still missing but focused overwhelmingly on one solved case and accusations that Gerry Adams may have been involved?

    Funny to hear accusations of "usual tactics" coming from someone mouthing off about "shinnerbots." Throw in "armchair republican" at some point and you'll have the whole set


  • #844
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    awec wrote: »

    Were the victims of Bloody Sunday used as political footballs by republicans in their quest for answers?

    No
    awec wrote: »
    Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

    Yes


  • #845
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    No



    Yes

    So, people wanting answers about The Disappeared = disgraceful use of victims as political footballs

    People wanting answers about Bloody Sunday = ok.

    Why the glaring inconsistency, and why are people not entitled to want answers about The Disappeared without nonsense accusations about them being used for alternative motives?


  • #846
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    awec wrote: »
    So, people wanting answers about The Disappeared

    What answers did we get?


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  • #847
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    What answers did we get?

    Sometimes you need to ask the same question a few times before you get the answer :rolleyes:


  • #848
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    What answers did we get?

    No new answers from the programme - but again that was not the point of it, I am unsure how many times that has been called out on this thread. The programme was not there to provide answers - it was there to provide the story, and provide the context around the incidents.

    It makes raising the questions no less valid. It makes the programme itself no less valid. The story is a human interest story - a documentary into events of the past, the TV programme was to inform and highlight the suffering of those who had loved ones missing for decades.


  • #849
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Sometimes you need to ask the same question a few times before you get the answer :rolleyes:

    We know the answer to where Jean McConville was buried.

    Who was asked about the other disappeared specifically?


  • #850
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    We know the answer to where Jean McConville was buried.

    Who was asked about the other disappeared specifically?

    My goodness, I can't believe you still haven't got your head around this. :(


  • #851
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    awec wrote: »
    So, people wanting answers about The Disappeared = disgraceful use of victims as political footballs

    People wanting answers about Bloody Sunday = ok.

    Why the glaring inconsistency, and why are people not entitled to want answers about The Disappeared without nonsense accusations about them being used for alternative motives?

    You're just making stuff up now.
    Nobody here has said the disappeared dont want or deserve answers, nobody.
    You are the one who decided to drag Bloody Sunday into it for some reason. You asked did Sinn Fein use it for political purposes, I said no because the facts are they didnt. The campaign for justice for Bloody Sunday was largely led by the families with help from SF, SDLP, a few southern parties and veterans of the Civil Rights movement.
    Nobody has been throwing around the names of those killed on bloody sunday in Stormont to avoid questions. When Tom Elliot asks Martin McGuinness about OFMDFM not responding to written question quickly enough Martin mcGuinness doest go "You were in the British Army, what about Bloody Sunday?"
    This type of thing has happened repeatedly in the Dail though and the case of Jean McConville is usually singled out.

    I say again, here is my problem with the programme. The families said in interviews for various papers that they hoped the programme would highlight the case of those still missing and perhaps encourage anyone with info to come forward.
    I watched the programme. It concentrated on the case of one woman who had been found and attempts to link Adams to that case.
    Following the programme all the fall out, all the focus has been on Adams and the supposed "fresh allegations" that were about as fresh as the socks under my bed.
    The case of those still missing however, soon disappeared from the headlines. This programme has in no way helped the case of the disappeared, it was merely an emotive flag of convenience to have a pop at Adams.
    He may well have questions to answer on this issue but a programme that the families hoped would help ease their plight was not the place to do it, especially when it was the same questions he's been asked a hundred times already.
    The show knew it would reveal nothing new, knew nothing would come of it except controversy but went ahead with it anyway.
    You can write me off as a "shinnerbot" all you want but the proof of this is all over this thread and in the headlines of the every paper in the country.
    One name appears; Adams, not McKee, Wright, Ruddy, mcVeigh, Megraw, Lynskey, Dorrian (who, by the way, is on the list of the disappeared, despite your protestations, i suggest you check your own links in the future) or even Nairac.


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  • #852
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    awec wrote: »
    My goodness, I can't believe you still haven't got your head around this. :(

    Who was asked about the whereabouts of the other and STILL disappeared?
    It's a simple question.


  • #853
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    We know the answer to where Jean McConville was buried.

    Who was asked about the other disappeared specifically?

    The program (whether you and the other GA defenders like it or not) was to bring this back to peoples attention. There are people in this country who have never heard of Jean McConville, Kevin McKee, Eamon Molloy and the others who were kidnapped, executed and buried in unmarked graves for decades. T

    his was not only to remind people of what happened but to also maybe get people thinking about what they may have seen back then. Sometimes people have information they don't even realise is important.


  • #854
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    bumper234 wrote: »
    The program (whether you and the other GA defenders like it or not) was to bring this back to peoples attention. There are people in this country who have never heard of Jean McConville, Kevin McKee, Eamon Molloy and the others who were kidnapped, executed and buried in unmarked graves for decades. T

    his was not only to remind people of what happened but to also maybe get people thinking about what they may have seen back then. Sometimes people have information they don't even realise is important.

    But the point is that it didnt. Nobody is talking about the disappeared. Nobody is talking about those still missing. All the focus is on Adams and the solved case of Jean McConville.


  • #855
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    bumper234 wrote: »
    This was not only to remind people of what happened but to also maybe get people thinking about what they may have seen back then. Sometimes people have information they don't even realise is important.

    So they focused on the case of somebody who had been found????? Preposterous answer tbh.


  • #856
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    bumper234 wrote: »
    The program (whether you and the other GA defenders like it or not) was to bring this back to peoples attention. There are people in this country who have never heard of Jean McConville, Kevin McKee, Eamon Molloy and the others who were kidnapped, executed and buried in unmarked graves for decades. T

    his was not only to remind people of what happened but to also maybe get people thinking about what they may have seen back then. Sometimes people have information they don't even realise is important.

    Of course that's what rte wanted from it.

    They should do a Dublin Monaghan bombings programme too might jog some people's memories.


  • #857
    Wattle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Wattle


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Lisa Dorrian, STILL MISSING is widely believed to be have been taken Loyalist Paramilitaries.

    How anybody can claim that a programme titled 'The Disappeared: Hidden Stories Of Northern Irelands Troubles' was about ALL the Disappeared and managed to keep this fact hidden, or investigated, is truly beyond me.
    Although revealing your own ignorance has helped a bit.

    There was a documentary made about the Lisa Dorrian case. It was aired on the BBC. Funnily enough they didn't mention the IRA disappeared. I'm sure the Dorrian family will be pressing for a further documentary the same as families of the IRA missing.


  • #858
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Of course that's what rte wanted from it.

    They should do a Dublin Monaghan bombings programme too might jog some people's memories.

    I agree


  • #859
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I agree

    Won't happen though and we definitely won't have rte sitting there throwing accusations at a British politician.


  • #860
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Won't happen though and we definitely won't have rte sitting there throwing accusations at a British politician.

    Maybe you should write to RTE about that then :confused:


  • #861
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Wattle wrote: »
    There was a documentary made about the Lisa Dorrian case. It was aired on the BBC. Funnily enough they didn't mention the IRA disappeared. I'm sure the Dorrian family will be pressing for a further documentary the same as families of the IRA missing.

    Why would they, it was a Spotlight programme specifcally about Lisa Dorrian. Here is what it set out to do,
    A television documentary on the murder of a young Northern Ireland woman will reveal details of a parallel investigation being carried out into her death - by paramilitaries.

    The RTE programme was titled 'The Disappeared: Hidden Stories OF Northern Ireland's Troubles. But only told selected stories.


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  • #862
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Maybe you should write to RTE about that then :confused:

    I'm merely pointing out rtes hidden agenda against Sinn Fein.


  • #863
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Who was asked about the whereabouts of the other and STILL disappeared?
    It's a simple question.

    What an absolutely stupid question.

    So you are saying the programme should have been 90 minutes of the presenter asking Gerry "where are they? where are they? where are they?".

    This is actually getting ridiculous now.


  • #864
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    I'm merely pointing out rtes hidden agenda against Sinn Fein.

    If you can plainly see this agenda then it's hardly hidden is it :confused:


  • #865
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    bumper234 wrote: »
    If you can plainly see this agenda then it's hardly hidden is it :confused:

    I can see it, a few others too, but the gullible majority of this country can't because they believe everything they read and hear.


  • #866
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    I can see it, a few others too, but the gullible majority of this country can't because they believe everything they read and hear.

    UFO's

    Illuminati

    Yeti

    Things you have n common with a "few others" :rolleyes:


  • #867
    amiable
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    No
    I think I saw a deal on tin foil in the Bargain Alerts forum


  • #868
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    this thread only goes to show that the likes of GA is to be completely admired for orchestrating the peace process. I mean some specific board members on here...well let's just say thank goodness they are only mouthing off on an irrelevant entertainment forum, and not part of the deciding the future of the north. :D:D

    Just goes to show just how hard and what obstacles the likes of GA and others had to go through on behalf of the people they represent. For that you cannot deny he is to be admired. ;)


  • #869
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    awec wrote: »
    What an absolutely stupid question.

    So you are saying the programme should have been 90 minutes of the presenter asking Gerry "where are they? where are they? where are they?".

    This is actually getting ridiculous now.

    No, I am saying that a programme that was about the Disappeared should have been primarily about The Disappeared. Instead it was primarily about somebody who has been found and allegations about a man implicated in her death.


  • #870
    Wattle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Wattle


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Why would they, it was a Spotlight programme specifcally about Lisa Dorrian. Here is what it set out to do,


    The RTE programme was titled 'The Disappeared: Hidden Stories OF Northern Ireland's Troubles. But only told selected stories.

    Yes but the RTE programme was about a completely different era and circumstance. The IRA had a policy of disappearing people loyalists did not. Lisa Dorrian is one case compared to the 18 that are connected to the IRA. There was no political reason for her disappearance, it was not carried out while the conflict was still live, it was not a policy of loyalists to do that. The unfortunate girl simply fell foul of some very bad people.


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  • #871
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    No
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Some people seem to think all was rosy in the north before the IRA. Divisions, pre-1969, were deep and wide. Discrimination against catholics was horrendous. Divisions did not suddenly pop up over night because one day the taigs had the temerity to fight back

    Who said that the North wasn't a sectarian state?

    Or that community defence of catholic areas under loyalist attack was not valid?

    Or that a political and civil rights response to the sectarianism of the state was not valid?

    That, for me however, does not translate to the necessity of a 30 year armed campaign against the British.

    That the British should not be occupying NI is a given but the IRA chose to declare war on them - wholly separate to unionist sectarianism and the nascent civil rights and political mobilization of NI Catholics against same - and fought a protracted military campaign that nearly 30 years later has not edged Ireland one jot closer to reunification.

    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    This is a fallacy that the Stoops like to put out there and all it actually does is betray a blind ignorance of what was actually voted on in 1998 and what was on offer in 1974.

    I presume the differences you allude to are the consensus and equality aspect of the GFA and the referenda?


    The general point remains that Sunningdale was a nascent attempt at a power-sharing assembly - also with the dimension of cross-border involvement - that more or less represented the same set-up that we now see in NI.

    So the question remains: to what ultimate end 30 years of war?

    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Loyalists showed an insatiable appetite for senseless murder long before and long after the IRA campaign.

    That's a given and I said as much in my post but the fact remains that the IRA campaign went a long way to legitimizing and gaining support/recruits for/to Loyalism in working class protestant areas in very much the same was as British army/Loyalist atrocities did in working class Catholic communities.

    Plus your assertion that Loyalists were not succeeding in hitting SF and IRA targets in the 90s is wrong. I can definitely do a search of the lists to show this when I have a little more time. Even bloodthirsty incompetents of their calibre could hardly fail to do so given the constant drip-feed of collusion between them and the Brits.

    That said, any paramilitary organisation with responsibility for Bernard Teggert, Joanne Mathers, Patsy Gillespie, or indeed the Birmingham, Dropping Well and bloody Friday bombings is on egregiously thin ice when it comes to preaching about slaughter.

    It's pointless aiming the whataboutery salvo at the likes of me, by the way. I can agree until the cows come home about how much I detest Loyalism.
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    The penalty for being an informer was well known by everyone at the time. You dont create a deterrent by exiling people. It's brutal and tragic and in some scenarios, cruel, but that is war..

    I said as much albeit I refuse to accept that a war was necessary as the current political landscape of NI demonstrates.


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