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Numbers up Gerry

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Comments

  • #812
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    awec wrote: »
    Because Jean McConville, even though she has been found, is STILL a member of The Disappeared. She is STILL the most high profile case in the Disappeared.

    She has been found, if the programme was genuinely about the Disappeared why would they not have focused on people STILL disappeared. They had 8 people to choose from
    Lisa Dorrian
    Columba McVeigh
    Seamus McKee
    Seamus Ruddy
    Joe Lynskey
    Seamus Wright
    Robert Nairac
    Brendan Megraw


  • #813
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    She has been found, if the programme was genuinely about the Disappeared why would they not have focused on people STILL disappeared. They had 8 people to choose from
    Lisa Dorrian
    Columba McVeigh
    Seamus McKee
    Seamus Ruddy
    Joe Lynskey
    Seamus Wright
    Robert Nairac
    Brendan Megraw

    Because the programme was about The Disappeared. Not Only The Disappeared that haven't been found.

    Do you seriously not see that?


  • #814
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    awec wrote: »
    Because the programme was about The Disappeared. Not Only The Disappeared that haven't been found.

    Do you seriously not see that?


    The programme was, as stated by it's presenter, about finding out 'who was responsible for the disappeared' and failed magnificently in that remit, instead it rehashed old news and allegations, focused on one family and woman in another attempt to implicate Adams and failed to even fully list those still missing.
    Responsible public broadcasting?


  • #815
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Let me ask you, how many Loyalists where questioned/interviewed/interrogated about people STILL missing in the programme?
    Any problems with that?

    But the programme was specifically about people disappeared by the IRA. Why would they be interviewing Loyalists? very few Loyalists in the IRA I would have thought?


  • #816
    Wattle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Wattle


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    She has been found, if the programme was genuinely about the Disappeared why would they not have focused on people STILL disappeared. They had 8 people to choose from
    Lisa Dorrian
    Columba McVeigh
    Seamus McKee
    Seamus Ruddy
    Joe Lynskey
    Seamus Wright
    Robert Nairac
    Brendan Megraw

    You wouldn't have any sort of program unless you went into the background to the case. As a journalist you have to set the context of the story. That's basic documentary making. And some of those you've listed were featured quite prominently in the program.


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  • #817
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    awec wrote: »
    Because Jean McConville, even though she has been found, is STILL a member of The Disappeared. She is STILL the most high profile case in the Disappeared.

    Columba McVeigh and Kevin McKee's family were both featured in the programme. Neither have been found to date.

    she can't still be disappeared if she is found - logic.


  • #818
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    She has been found, if the programme was genuinely about the Disappeared why would they not have focused on people STILL disappeared. They had 8 people to choose from
    Lisa Dorrian
    Columba McVeigh
    Seamus McKee
    Seamus Ruddy
    Joe Lynskey
    Seamus Wright
    Robert Nairac
    Brendan Megraw

    I would imagine because JMC is the "buzzword" for everybody to get riled up - I bet not 1% of the posters know anything about the above names at all. RTE must be having a field day reading this thread :roll eyes:


  • #819
    whupdedo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭whupdedo


    No
    fishy fishy wrote: »
    she can't still be disappeared if she is found - logic.


    But she is still 1 of the disappeared though


  • #820
    Conmaicne Mara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    Voted the wrong way, meant to vote yes :rolleyes:


  • #821
    Wattle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Wattle


    No
    fishy fishy wrote: »
    she can't still be disappeared if she is found - logic.

    So where was she for 31 years? On holidays?


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  • #822
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    Wattle wrote: »
    So where was she for 31 years? On holidays?

    Ah sure she turned up so now in the shinnerbots eyes she wasn't disappeared as much as "misplaced" :confused:


  • #823
    Wattle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Wattle


    No
    bumper234 wrote: »
    Ah sure she turned up so now in the shinnerbots eyes she wasn't disappeared as much as "misplaced" :confused:

    Yes and sure wasn't she by the sea. How nice of them to dump her in a lovely picturesque spot.


  • #824
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    But the programme was specifically about people disappeared by the IRA. Why would they be interviewing Loyalists? very few Loyalists in the IRA I would have thought?

    The programme title:
    The Disappeared: Hidden story of Northern Ireland Troubles


  • #825
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    did GA order the murder of civilians or not?


  • #826
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The programme title:
    The Disappeared: Hidden story of Northern Ireland Troubles

    Yes, how many of The Disappeared were murdered by loyalists?

    Do you have any understanding whatsoever what you are talking about? Some of your posts are absolutely absurd.

    I'll save you the bother of having to go look it up - none of The Disappeared were murdered by loyalists. All of them were murdered by the IRA. Why you think loyalists should be interviewed in a programme about people murdered by the IRA is baffling to everyone.


  • #827
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    awec wrote: »
    Even though she was found she was still a member of the Disappeared. The programme was to highlight what her family suffered for 31 years.

    That's not the impression I got from the interviews with family members in the Irish News. They seemed to hope that the programme would highlight the case of those still missing and perhaps lead to someone coming forward with new information. It failed miserably in this case.
    awec wrote: »
    Unfortunately for SF, just because she has been found does not mean everyone is going to magically forget what happened.

    Who says anybody should forget what happened? I'm just suggesting that perhaps having a pop at Adams with the same old questions at the expense of those still missing was an unworthy and low thing to do.
    awec wrote: »
    Perhaps SF and their voters don't like the programme because it once again highlighted some of the IRAs dirty deeds in the past that they would prefer people forgot?

    The IRA has engaged wholeheartedly with the ICLVR since it was set up. Nobody is trying to hide what happened. The point is that this could have been an opportunity to highlight the case of those who are still missing and maybe tease out some new information. Instead it was "remember how bad the IRA were? Dont vote for Sinn Fein."
    awec wrote: »
    If you really think the programme was going to produce any new evidence then I don't think you have a grasp on what the purpose was.

    I say again, I understood perfectly what the programme was about. What you dont seem to be able to grasp is what it could have been and what the families of those who are still missing wanted it to be.
    awec wrote: »
    They're not being used as a distraction. They are some of the most brutal and unsavoury incidents to happen during the troubles. There are still bodies not returned to loved ones.

    Of course the story is going to be of interest to people. That programme is not distracting from any of these "serious issues".

    You're taking what I said out of context. I wasnt talking about this programme in particular, I was replying to a poster who suggested Adams was getting "riled up" about constantly being asked about the IRA, I explained how this constantly being used by others and an excuse to dodge pertinent questions from SF would rile anyone up.
    I suspect however that you knew that and are just attempting to deliberately misrepresent what I said.
    awec wrote: »
    What did the loyalists have to do with the people who disappeared at the hands of the IRA? Are you saying you think the loyalist paramilitaries helped the IRA disappear people, good mates that they were?

    What even is the point in this post? Do you understand what this thread is about?

    This was about The Disappeared, not the IRA disappeared, sure wasn't Seamus Ruddy killed and buried by the INLA. The poster is asking why the case of Lisa Dorrian was left out.


  • #828
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    awec wrote: »
    Yes, how many of The Disappeared were murdered by loyalists?

    Do you have any understanding whatsoever what you are talking about? Some of your posts are absolutely absurd.

    I'll save you the bother of having to go look it up - none of The Disappeared were murdered by loyalists. All of them were murdered by the IRA. Why you think loyalists should be interviewed in a programme about people murdered by the IRA is baffling to everyone.

    Seamus Ruddy was killed by the INLA.
    Lisa Dorrian was killed by loyalists.
    When you arent even aware of these simple facts how are we expected to take anything else you say seriously?


  • #829
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The programme title:
    The Disappeared: Hidden story of Northern Ireland Troubles
    Yes Happyman42 and the expression "the disappeared" is accepted as reffering to those abducted murdered and buried secretly by the IRA. Here is a link to a supportive website:
    http://thedisappearedni.co.uk/
    I dont know if Loyalists abducted murdered and secretly buried mothers of ten and special needs teenagers but if they did they are not reffered to as the disappeared. Maybe, if that is the case, they are refffered to as something else and the BBC/RTE will make a programe about them, but this programme was about the "Disappeared".
    Im sorry i cant explain it any more clearly.


  • #830
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    awec wrote: »
    Yes, how many of The Disappeared were murdered by loyalists?

    Do you have any understanding whatsoever what you are talking about? Some of your posts are absolutely absurd.

    I'll save you the bother of having to go look it up - none of The Disappeared were murdered by loyalists. All of them were murdered by the IRA. Why you think loyalists should be interviewed in a programme about people murdered by the IRA is baffling to everyone.

    Lisa Dorrian, STILL MISSING is widely believed to be have been taken Loyalist Paramilitaries.

    How anybody can claim that a programme titled 'The Disappeared: Hidden Stories Of Northern Irelands Troubles' was about ALL the Disappeared and managed to keep this fact hidden, or investigated, is truly beyond me.
    Although revealing your own ignorance has helped a bit.


  • #831
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Yes Happyman42 and the expression "the disappeared" is accepted as reffering to those abducted murdered and buried secretly by the IRA. Here is a link to a supportive website:
    http://thedisappearedni.co.uk/
    I dont know if Loyalists abducted murdered and secretly buried mothers of ten and special needs teenagers but if they did they are not reffered to as the disappeared. Maybe, if that is the case, they are refffered to as something else and the BBC/RTE will make a programe about them, but this programme was about the "Disappeared".
    Im sorry i cant explain it any more clearly.

    Did you actually read about the people mentioned there...or just make assumptions, like this programme wanted you to make?


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  • #832
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Seamus Ruddy was killed by the INLA.
    Lisa Dorrian was killed by loyalists.
    When you arent even aware of these simple facts how are we expected to take anything else you say seriously?
    "The Disappeared" refers to people murdered and disappeared by republican paramilitaries during the troubles.

    Why are you choosing to ignore this fact? Is it because it's convenient for you to try and shift the focus elsewhere? If you want to clarify it for yourself further, here's the list of people referred to when the discussion is of "The Disappeared":

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-10814888

    The usual shinnerbot tactic on show here. Obscure, deflect, and then try to obscure some more, and maybe try paint wee Gerry as some sort of victim of media harassment. Pathetic.


  • #833
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Did you actually read about the people mentioned there...or just make assumptions, like this programme wanted you to make?
    Was Mrs McConville not a mother of ten then happyman?! i think that fact is well documented.
    I dont want to name the special-needs teenager because it would be hurtfull, but its a pretty well known fact. what point are you trying to make? did you think that I had not heard or readabout the disappeared before i saw the programme?


  • #834
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    awec wrote: »
    "The Disappeared" refers to people murdered and disappeared by republican paramilitaries during the troubles.

    So what are the people who were bumped off and buried by non provos

    the undisappeared?
    the not appearead?
    the less appeared?


  • #835
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    awec wrote: »
    What did the loyalists have to do with the people who disappeared at the hands of the IRA? Are you saying you think the loyalist paramilitaries helped the IRA disappear people, good mates that they were?

    What even is the point in this post? Do you understand what this thread is about?
    awec wrote: »
    "The Disappeared" refers to people murdered and disappeared by republican paramilitaries during the troubles.

    So it's Republican Paramilitaries now and not specifically The IRA? And we are the ones doing the 'mental gymnastics'?


  • #836
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Bambi wrote: »
    So what are the people who were bumped off and buried by non provos

    the undisappeared?
    the not appearead?
    the less appeared?

    More irrelevant, obscuring waffle.

    You should go read this too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-10814888


  • #837
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    So it's Republican Paramilitaries now and not specifically The IRA? And we are the ones doing the 'mental gymnastics'?

    Pedantics now.

    Can you explain to the group why you want loyalist paramilitaries interviewed in a programme about The Disappeared, who are a group of people abducted, murdered and buried in secret by republican paramilitaries (all but 1 being the IRA, just to satisfy your pedantry)?

    Coherently would be good.


  • #838
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    No
    awec wrote: »
    Pedantics now.

    Can you explain to the group why you want loyalist paramilitaries interviewed in a programme about The Disappeared, who are a group of people abducted, murdered and buried in secret by republican paramilitaries (all but 1 being the IRA, just to satisfy your pedantry)?

    Coherently would be good.

    Yes. This would be good.


  • #839
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    awec wrote: »
    Pedantics now.

    Can you explain to the group why you want loyalist paramilitaries interviewed in a programme about The Disappeared, who are a group of people abducted, murdered and buried in secret by republican paramilitaries (all but 1 being the IRA, just to satisfy your pedantry)?

    Coherently would be good.

    I don't specifically want loyalist paramilitaries interviewed, although I would have thought that importance would have been given to finding information about those STILL missing.

    I want to know why a programme which it's own presenter said was one thing (and failed at resolving any of that) is being presented on here as something else...a programme about the Disappeared and their families.


  • #840
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    awec wrote: »
    "The Disappeared" refers to people murdered and disappeared by republican paramilitaries during the troubles.

    Why are you choosing to ignore this fact? Is it because it's convenient for you to try and shift the focus elsewhere? If you want to clarify it for yourself further, here's the list of people referred to when the discussion is of "The Disappeared":

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-10814888

    The usual shinnerbot tactic on show here. Obscure, deflect, and then try to obscure some more, and maybe try paint wee Gerry as some sort of victim of media harassment. Pathetic.

    Oh noes, somebody is pointing out that I'm wrong, better type Shinnerbot repeatedly, that will make them go away. The ironic thing is that these tend to be the same people who endlessly crow on about the use of the term "westbrit" despite the fact that it's rarely actually used.

    I havent ignored anything. The IRA carried out the vast majority of disappearances. The IRA owned up to this and since 1999 have engaged wholeheartedly with the ICLVR. Your waffle about "ignoring" these facts, which everybody has openly acknowledged since post one is a pure strawman

    You said they were all killed by the IRA, I pointed out that that is incorrect. Do you dispute this fact, given that Seamus Ruddy is indeed on the list you linked?
    That's not deflection, that's questioning you on how much you really know about this issue when you're missing out basic facts.
    For someone engaged in the type of moral grandstanding we've seen in this thread you sure dont seem to have any problem using the case of Jean McConville as some sort of political football, and what's more, at the expense of those still missing.


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  • #841
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    For someone engaged in the type of moral grandstanding we've seen in this thread you sure dont seem to have any problem using the case of Jean McConville as some sort of political football, and what's more, at the expense of those still missing.

    And here we go with the other usual tactic. "But you don't really care". :rolleyes:

    Do you really think that sort of nonsense washes with people?

    Were the victims of Bloody Sunday used as political footballs by republicans in their quest for answers? That's the sort of point you are trying to make here. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?


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