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Numbers up Gerry

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Comments

  • #722
    Fuzzy Clam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    No
    Wattle wrote: »
    That's not quite true. In one case they were told that a body was in a particular bog. The bog was absolutely enormous. Not pinpointing exactly where the body was useless for the people searching.

    I doubt if they were keeping exact co-ords.
    I'm sure SF would love to try and put the whole thing behind them. They have no reason not to.


  • #723
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Wattle wrote: »
    That's not quite true. In one case they were told that a body was in a particular bog. The bog was absolutely enormous. Not pinpointing exactly where the body was useless for the people searching.

    Maybe that is all they knew, I said it earlier, drive around the Bragan,Co. Monaghan area at night, get out and walk around and then try and find that spot the next day never mind 40 years later. Next to impossible I'd say.
    That area of Monaghan has the densest network of roads, there used to be a game the locals played to get people lost during the war of Independence.
    I have gotten thoroughly lost there myself a few times.


  • #724
    Gee Bag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It didn't further the cause of those people one bit imo, which is sad in the extreme.

    You seem to not have understand the point of the documentary, it was telling the families stories and the impact the killngs had on them.

    I don't think they you can say they have a cause, but they do have the right to be heard.


  • #725
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    but they do have the right to be heard.

    Yes they absolutely do, but so also do many others that both the BBC and RTE are curiously quiet about.


  • #726
    Gee Bag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Yes they absolutely do, but so also do many others that both the BBC and RTE are curiously quiet about.

    Who?


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  • #727
    ktm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 ✭ktm


    Carlos Roca wrote: »
    I'm not sure why Adams agreed to appear on the show. Hasn't he answered all those questions before? The SF PR team must be on holidays.


    In fairness, he usually makes himself available for interviews on most subjects. Alot of people would have their minds made up before he even opens his mouth regardless of what comes out.
    Gerry has been around along time and is well versed in dealing with the media, he is well aware of how contentious any of his statements, particular in dealing with the disappeared, can be. His is also well aware he is seen as someone one with "baggage" , and has been answering (or not) journalists questions on his past for an awful long time now.

    Its not that long ago we weren't even allowed to hear his actual voice in interviews , hard to believe now.


  • #728
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    Who?

    The families of the 33 people who disappeared in the Dublin/Monaghan bombings, who still await the British release of information(which exists, not 'alleged' to exist) on those bombings.

    The families of Margaret Gargan 13 shot in the back of the head by a British soldier who has never been named or brought to account.

    I could go on and on, but the above serve to illustrate my point that the McConvilles are far from being alone but they are prioritised because there is an underlying agenda.


  • #729
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The families of the 33 people who disappeared . . .

    I could go on and on, but the above serve to illustrate my point that the McConvilles are far from being alone.

    Are you really suggesting that the British Army also made people disappear, in the same way as Jean McConville & the other victims of the IRA? And if so, how come we have never heard about it?


  • #730
    Tramps Like Us
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Tramps Like Us


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Are you really suggesting that the British Army also made people disappear, in the same way as Jean McConville & the other victims of the IRA? And if so, how come we have never heard about it?
    They just murdered people and dumped them on the street


  • #731
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    No
    That's not the same as murdering them and burying them in a bog for thirty years.

    Happyman was talking about the Disappeared.


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  • #732
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    No
    LordSutch wrote: »
    Are you really suggesting that the British Army also made people disappear, in the same way as Jean McConville & the other victims of the IRA? And if so, how come we have never heard about it?

    With a sponsored operation by the brit army blows the life out of people in the name of the crown, would you not think it would be like they disappeared, their families would think that. Remember the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, and the victims families. Sponsored HRH and supported by a corrupt coalition government in Ireland.


  • #733
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    No
    OK, so you're moving to a different definition of disappeared. I was taking Happyman leterally, seeing as he mentioned Jean McConville, who really was 'disappeared' in an unmarked grave.


  • #734
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Are you really suggesting that the British Army also made people disappear, in the same way as Jean McConville & the other victims of the IRA? And if so, how come we have never heard about it?

    Death is death, as far as your loved ones are concerned, you have disappeared.


  • #735
    Wattle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Wattle


    No
    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    With a sponsored operation by the brit army blows the life out of people in the name of the crown, would you not think it would be like they disappeared, their families would think that. Remember the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, and the victims families. Sponsored HRH and supported by a corrupt coalition government in Ireland.

    All of those poor families had the chance to give their loved one's a burial. The remaining disappeared have not been given a chance for closure.


  • #736
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    LordSutch wrote: »
    OK, so you're moving to a different definition of disappeared. I was taking Happyman leterally, seeing as he mentioned Jean McConville, who really was 'disappeared' in an unmarked grave.

    I think she was found and buried in Belfast.


  • #737
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    No
    Wattle wrote: »
    All of those poor families had the chance to give their loved one's a burial. The remaining disappeared have not been given a chance for closure.

    In your opinion that was all right.


  • #738
    Painted Pony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭Painted Pony


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    Remember the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, and the victims families. Sponsored HRH and supported by a corrupt coalition government in Ireland.
    Ah be careful now. Because if you don't have "court conviction" standard of proof for these allegations some here will insist that we are bound to conclude that they are not true. ;)


  • #739
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Oh come on, what purpose did the programme serve? We know everything already and there was no new evidence at all, just more hearsay and personal opinions.
    How's about one of these journalists doing the hard work and actually finding out something that might help? Wouldn't that be more useful?

    Here's a shocker for you.....Not everyone knows about the missing!:eek:

    I was talking to 5 people in work yesterday about this program. One (23 yr old) had heard of the missing but didn't know anything about it, the other 4 (19 - 26) knew nothing. One thought it was a new show starting on sky:rolleyes: and one when she heard the name Jean McConville said "Oh wasn't she that IRA woman?"

    Maybe you didn't get the new revelations you wanted and maybe it was a rehash of information for those who have read up on it but to a LOT of people (especially teens/early 20's) this would be new and it's better to get this out and keep it in peoples minds. You say the journalists should be "doing the hard work and actually finding out something that might help?" How do you suggest they do that?


  • #740
    Gee Bag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Death is death, as far as your loved ones are concerned, you have disappeared.

    Your deliberatley trying to confuse the issue. The IRA accepted that disappearing people was not an acceptable tactic in 1979 when the army council ordered that the practice be stopped.

    Holding a funeral ceremony or funeral rites to commemerate the deceased is common to pretty much every culture and religion in the world and has been so since the stone age.


  • #741
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Here's a shocker for you.....Not everyone knows about the missing!:eek:

    I was talking to 5 people in work yesterday about this program. One (23 yr old) had heard of the missing but didn't know anything about it, the other 4 (19 - 26) knew nothing. One thought it was a new show starting on sky:rolleyes: and one when she heard the name Jean McConville said "Oh wasn't she that IRA woman?"

    Maybe you didn't get the new revelations you wanted and maybe it was a rehash of information for those who have read up on it but to a LOT of people (especially teens/early 20's) this would be new and it's better to get this out and keep it in peoples minds. You say the journalists should be "doing the hard work and actually finding out something that might help?" How do you suggest they do that?
    Gee Bag wrote: »
    Your deliberatley trying to confuse the issue. The IRA accepted that disappearing people was not an acceptable tactic in 1979 when the army council ordered that the practice be stopped.

    Holding a funeral ceremony or funeral rites to commemerate the deceased is common to pretty much every culture and religion in the world and has been so since the stone age.

    Both of you missed the point of the programme...Jean McConville is not missing or disappeared anymore, she was found in 2003 and yet she was the focus of a programme called The Disappeared.
    It is clear to me that the programme had another agenda and it wasn't to focus on all the other cases.

    I agree totally about the policy of disappearing people btw, I just object the selective focus on cases that RTE and The BBC indulge in.


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  • #742
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Both of you missed the point of the programme...Jean McConville is not missing or disappeared anymore, she was found in 2003 and yet she was the focus of a programme called The Disappeared.
    It is clear to me that the programme had another agenda and it wasn't to focus on all the other cases.

    I agree totally about the policy of disappearing people btw, I just object the selective focus on cases that RTE and The BBC indulge in.

    Have to disagree with you there chief if anything i thought the program didn't focus on her enough.


  • #743
    Gee Bag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Both of you missed the point of the programme...Jean McConville is not missing or disappeared anymore, she was found in 2003 and yet she was the focus of a programme called The Disappeared.
    It is clear to me that the programme had another agenda and it wasn't to focus on all the other cases.

    I agree totally about the policy of disappearing people btw, I just object the selective focus on cases that RTE and The BBC indulge in.

    Jean McConville's case is probably the best known example. Her murder was one of the most squalid, dirty events of the troubles and is a stain on Irish Republicanism. It was right and proper that her kids were afforded an oppurtunity to explain how it effected their lives.


  • #744
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Have to disagree with you there chief if anything i thought the program didn't focus on her enough.

    She isn't Disappeared.
    Here are the remaining Disappeared some of whom featured briefly. I stress 'some of'.
    If the programmes remit was to focus on The Disappeared why were they not the focus?
    I'll tell you why, because they couldn't implicate Gerry Adams. Continue to be fooled and exploited if you wish, not all of us are so gullible.
    http://thedisappearedni.co.uk/still-missing/


  • #745
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    She isn't Disappeared.
    Here are the remaining Disappeared some of whom featured briefly. I stress 'some of'.
    If the programmes remit was to focus on The Disappeared why were they not the focus?
    I'll tell you why, because they couldn't implicate Gerry Adams. Continue to be fooled and exploited if you wish, not all of us are so gullible.
    http://thedisappearedni.co.uk/still-missing/

    ok:rolleyes:


  • #746
    D1stant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭D1stant


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Both of you missed the point of the programme...Jean McConville is not missing or disappeared anymore, she was found in 2003 and yet she was the focus of a programme called The Disappeared.
    It is clear to me that the programme had another agenda and it wasn't to focus on all the other cases.

    I agree totally about the policy of disappearing people btw, I just object the selective focus on cases that RTE and The BBC indulge in.

    That's a very weak argument in fairness. The programme was about the disappeared and she was the best known example. So she was accidentally found on a beach in 2003, therefore she needs to be deleted? Should there be another programme called the found? FFS


  • #747
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Where did I or anybody else say that? You do know how the organisation was structured, why for instance the RUC could not arrest somebody for being a member of SF? Maybe some reading is required?

    I've read plenty, thanks.

    These and other threads are full of people implying that the media are doing a hatchet job on GA by stating he was an IRA commander.

    The IRA campaign was a failure and exacerbated the divisions in the North. You cannot extrapolate and provide a case for a 30 year military campaign from the initial (wholly justified) defence of catholic areas (which included the IRA but was not confined to them) from Loyalist incursion in 1969. Sinn Fein did more in one or two years in the early 80s for Irish republicanism than the IRA did in the entire preceding decade, and indeed the decades after that.

    The fact that partition still exists and SF are in a power sharing administration with unionists means that a 30 year armed campaign with over 3000 dead has brought them to the same deal as offered by the British in 1974. The end of the campaign was inevitable as collusion and informants meant that Loyalists and the Brits were laying into the IRA and to be fair, the Loyalist - animals that they are - had a far bigger appetite for senseless murder, ironically invigorated by the IRA campaign.

    As for McConville, Adams was the IRA commander of Belfast in 1972, he at the very least knew about it.

    I have no idea if she was an informer or not. I'd trust the British account as little as I'd trust that of the IRA, and indeed, it has been mooted by some journalists (Bishop/Mallie or Moloney IIRC) that she may well have been an informer. Now, if that was the case, you'd want your head examined to continue to do so after the fairly unprecedented situation where an alleged informer got a prior warning from the IRA but a woman with 10 children could have been exiled as opposed to murdered and that summed up the IRA at the time.


  • #748
    Gee Bag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    She isn't Disappeared.

    Continue to be fooled and exploited if you wish, not all of us are so gullible

    She was disappeared for over 30 years.

    It ill behoves you to call anyone else foolish or gullible.


  • #749
    0ph0rce0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,142 ✭✭✭0ph0rce0


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Are you really suggesting that the British Army also made people disappear, in the same way as Jean McConville & the other victims of the IRA? And if so, how come we have never heard about it?

    You haven't heard it about it because the british army burried them and said nothing. DUH!!!!


  • #750
    Gee Bag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    0ph0rce0 wrote: »
    You haven't heard it about it because the british army burried them and said nothing. DUH!!!!

    Shltehawks that they are, I've never heard any one allege that the BA dispppeared people in NI.

    You would of course have a list of the names of these people you can share with us?


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  • #751
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    She was disappeared for over 30 years.

    It ill behoves you to call anyone else foolish or gullible.

    ....and has been found for 10. Please don't try and tell us that this programme's remit was to try and find the disappeared by focusing on somebody who has been found since 2003 and not mentioning some of those still missing. The programme had a very clear remit and you are taking me for a gullible fool if you are asking me to believe otherwise. (If I am not allowed to call others those names)


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